EU firearms licensing directive

[Breastman]

Is there other threads on this, or is the biggest threat to shooting since the 1997 handgun ban really only got 3 pages of vaguery on one of the biggest shooting forums in this country?!

 

 

so im assuming, using their logic, that a 'tactical' looking 10/22 is a much bigger danger to the public than a more usual, wooden stock 10/22 ?

 

you really couldnt make it up could you

 

A certain well know fancy hatted wannabe 'great white hunter' (whose name is apparently banned by the swearing filter ) shares the same opinion, as i suspect several people on here do too...

 

I think her view is that every time you get your gun out in a public place like a concert hall everybody who spots it looking like a tactical gun will shout terrorist but if it has a wooden stock they will cheer you and want to be your friend.

It leaves you wondering what planet theses MEPs live on and the unelected power they can abuse we need the American NRA to open an office in the UK.

 

The NRA has already issued a statement, presumably with good intentions but included a sentence along the line that the 1988 and 1997 bans amounted to good legislation?! Seems they still happy with the way they sold out shooters back then.

 

Everyone should be writing to their MEP's (in writing, not email). If this is passed you can gurantee all semi-autos rifles and shotguns will be banned here, whatever they look like!

Edited December 1, 2015 by Breastman

[Breastman]

Taken from my profile (which has since been ripped off by a certain shooting org....)

 

First they came for the Communists right to carry for self-defence
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist did not carry

Then they came for the Socialists self-loading rifles
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist did not own one

Then they came for the trade unionists pistols
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist did not use them

Then they came for the Jews ?? Semi-autos
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew unable to see the precariousness of my situation

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[deadeye18]

Taken from my profile (which has since been ripped off by a certain shooting org....)

 

First they came for the Communists right to carry for self-defence

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist did not carry

 

Then they came for the Socialists self-loading rifles

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist did not own one

 

Then they came for the trade unionists pistols

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist did not use them

 

Then they came for the Jews ?? Semi-autos

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew unable to see the precariousness of my situation

 

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me

Excellent post . If this doesn't make people think then they're beyond help . I wonder what the response would be if it was only O/U shotguns they were trying to ban . Lots of holier than thou cries of help us Please . I've said this before and ill say It again that it doesn't matter what type of gun you use,we all pull a trigger and need to be counted as one

[Davyo]

trying to stop gun crimes by banning guns is like trying to cure obesity by banning spoons.

[deadeye18]

Or pencils for bad spelling

[mossy835]

they banned knifes but people are stilled getting killed with them.

[mossberg-operator]

Gun bans are for the law abiding citizens. Not for the criminals. All the guns used in these sad events were already illegal FULLauto rifles, handgrenades, explosives. The EU should enforce the existing laws. But they can't because the terrorists don't cooperate, the cheeky b.....s! So, lets find someone else as a spacegoat! We have a saying in my home country: does he/she have a hat or not? If the answer is YES, than beat him up because he got a hat, if it is NO, than beat him up because he doesn't have one.. This is us, the shooting community by the non shooters, who are the majority. We are all in this together! Our pressure groups are divided, don't cooperate. BASC response is poor for start. Not happy with them. We are doomed. Do You all know the the EU got a plan to prohibit all private firearm ownership by 2030?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gun bans are for the law abiding citizens. Not for the criminals. All the guns used in these sad events were already illegal FULLauto rifles, handgrenades, explosives. The EU should enforce the existing laws. But they can't because the terrorists don't cooperate, the cheeky b.....s! So, lets find someone else as a spacegoat! We have a saying in my home country: does he/she have a hat or not? If the answer is YES, than beat him up because he got a hat, if it is NO, than beat him up because he doesn't have one.. This is us, the shooting community by the non shooters, who are the majority. We are all in this together! Our pressure groups are divided, don't cooperate. BASC response is poor for start. Not happy with them. We are doomed. Do You all know the the EU got a plan to prohibit all private firearm ownership by 2030?

 

You tell 'em Steve!

[sportsbob]

"Do You all know the the EU got a plan to prohibit all private firearm ownership by 2030? "

 

That`s what you get for living in a Police state?

 

The urban dictionary definition of Police state.

 

"A country where the police watch what you do and try to control your life. Where there's cameras in town centres and on public transport. Where you can be arrested because of something you said to a friend about the leaders of your country. Where police stop and search people for no reason. Where you can be detained without charge or trial. Where the state plants bugs with impunity. Where protesters have to get police permits, and where police regularly attack protesters. "

Edited December 1, 2015 by sportsbob

[CaptainBeaky]

... Do You all know the the EU got a plan to prohibit all private firearm ownership by 2030?

No, I didn't. Do you have a source? Evidence?

[The Mighty Prawn]

No, I didn't. Do you have a source? Evidence?

When did an unattributed quote stop the PW's getting their knickers in a twist?

 

Normal Dictionary definition of a Police State

1. "a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities."

   I would suggest we are a hell of a long way from a totalitarian state, suggest you look up life under the stasi or nazi's and try and be less inflammatory as you devalue those that really live as oppressed masses

[David BASC]

Just for clarity, and to answer a question I have been asked:

 

What Is BASC doing about it?

BASC is engaging with the following organisations:

• The Home Office
• The Department of Justice (Northern Ireland)
• The Federation of European hunting associations – FACE – which is in direct contact with the Commission.
• Sister organisations including the British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC).

BASC’s view is that in the wake of terrorist atrocities a separate legal instrument, and not the Firearms directive is more appropriate to deal with the illegal use of firearms across the EU.

Whatever the mechanism BASC believes that an impact assessment will help policymakers agree actions which are outcome based and which avoid unintended consequences which harm legitimate firearms users.

We will work tirelessly with policy makers to ensure that bad laws are not imposed on shooting and law-abiding citizens.

I hope that helps

 

David

[Davyo]

I think we will see it long before then 2020/25

[mossberg-operator]

Just for clarity, and to answer a question I have been asked:

 

What Is BASC doing about it?

 

BASC is engaging with the following organisations:

 

• The Home Office
• The Department of Justice (Northern Ireland)
• The Federation of European hunting associations FACE which is in direct contact with the Commission.
• Sister organisations including the British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC).

BASCs view is that in the wake of terrorist atrocities a separate legal instrument, and not the Firearms directive is more appropriate to deal with the illegal use of firearms across the EU.

Whatever the mechanism BASC believes that an impact assessment will help policymakers agree actions which are outcome based and which avoid unintended consequences which harm legitimate firearms users.

We will work tirelessly with policy makers to ensure that bad laws are not imposed on shooting and law-abiding citizens.

I hope that helps

 

David

. Hi! With all respect (i know that You are a cool guy from past experience) I've written to BASC regarding why don't You display links in your website to the petition/ to others working on the same problem/etc against this madness. We should cooperate on this matter. This was the answer: "Devisions have to be taken as to what to publish and senior management decided to keep it simple. There are many petitions but please be assured we are concentrating on detailed lobbying and engagement to fend off unjustified changes to law." Meaning doing it your way. Not happy with this. Why do I pay my membership if You don't represent my views? Why don't You cooparate with non UK organisations in this matter (except one)? Keep it simple? (Shaking head) Edited December 2, 2015 by londonercsecse

[mossberg-operator]

No, I didn't. Do you have a source? Evidence?

Hi! Can not remember. Read it in the last 10 days somewhere while doing this campaigning thing against this madness. (Doing it in two countries, facebook, here, airsoft site, 3 different forums in my native country, a contact in Slovenia, wrote to MEP-s as well, etc), so, i didn't save that link...sorry.

[David BASC]

I am sorry to hear that you are not happy with BASC concentrating on detailed lobbying and engagement to fend off unjustified changes to law.

 

FACE represents many shooting / hunting orgnisations across Europe, see here: http://www.face.eu/about-us/members and working with FACE and consequently its members is the best way. As I posted above FACE is in direct contact with the Commission

[bangers]

what happened in France is sadly not foreseeable terrorist are not like a regular army and wear a uniform so can't be identified.but the masses look to the powers that be and they have to be seen to be doing something to change things it's just that law abiding citizen's get hit the worst as were the only ones they can target as they know where we live un like mr terrorist,so we suffer the knee jerk reaction again

[ninja_fox]

Here's a vague response from the government to a direct question about what their plans are:

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2015-11-30.18204.h&p=11626

 

If you think that your renewal is taking a long time now, wait until this happens...

[geordieh]

 

Just for clarity, and to answer a question I have been asked:

 

What Is BASC doing about it?

BASC is engaging with the following organisations:

• The Home Office
• The Department of Justice (Northern Ireland)
• The Federation of European hunting associations – FACE – which is in direct contact with the Commission.
• Sister organisations including the British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC).

BASC’s view is that in the wake of terrorist atrocities a separate legal instrument, and not the Firearms directive is more appropriate to deal with the illegal use of firearms across the EU.

Whatever the mechanism BASC believes that an impact assessment will help policymakers agree actions which are outcome based and which avoid unintended consequences which harm legitimate firearms users.

We will work tirelessly with policy makers to ensure that bad laws are not imposed on shooting and law-abiding citizens.

I hope that helps

 

David

 

Sounds pretty similar to what you(BASC)said when they banned lead shot for wildfowl, Semi auto full bore rifles, pistols, what you should be saying is NO MORE BANS we will not be handing over any more guns Enough is Enough.Give them something to think and worry about

[MartynGT4]

This is quite interesting

 

http://audiovisual.europarl.europa.eu/Assetdetail.aspx?id=2697ab5f-818a-40f4-ba83-a5670125ed80

 

And also this, from 1:21:50

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151203IPR06021/html/Committee-on-the-Internal-Market-and-Consumer-Protection

Edited December 7, 2015 by MartynGT4

[deadeye18]

VERY bad news for collectors . such a shame that many historical weapons will end up destroyed.

[kory1986]

This is quite interesting

 

http://audiovisual.europarl.europa.eu/Assetdetail.aspx?id=2697ab5f-818a-40f4-ba83-a5670125ed80

 

And also this, from 1:21:50

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151203IPR06021/html/Committee-on-the-Internal-Market-and-Consumer-Protection

it's still not clear to me what they are wanting to band in theory any semi auto can be turned into a fully auto so are they going to band 22lr semi auto as you could turn then into a fully auto or are there places in the EU where you can still get semi auto AK and m4 type firearms wish there just bloody make it more clearer Edited December 8, 2015 by kory1986

[mossberg-operator]

Watched it. Thx for link. Liked that the Swedish,Czech, German guys are so against it. The proposing fella is so anti... On the 10000 gun deaths per year in the EU: 2/3 of those are suicides, (very likely not with a semi auto AK-47, handgun more likely) France is contributing with around 2k to the 10k figure. Not convinced about the terrorists would use registered guns. Also got some other points to raise: there are the same amount of death by knives in the EU per year. Why don't ve ban the blank/deactivated knives too? Or the automatic cars? ('More road fatalities than gun deaths). So pick something to ban so You are "doing" something in the eyes of the public....

Sounds pretty similar to what you(BASC)said when they banned lead shot for wildfowl, Semi auto full bore rifles, pistols, what you should be saying is NO MORE BANS we will not be handing over any more guns Enough is Enough.Give them something to think and worry about

 

Agree. This was my point. Not united. Should be. Edited December 8, 2015 by londonercsecse

[Livefast123]

The only outcome that is acceptable is no bans on anyrthing firearm related. I have written to all my local MEP's and have recieved these responses.

 

William Dartmouth MEP. UKIP

 

Dear Mr Livefast,

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter about the EU Firearms directive.

 

 

 

It raises important issues.

 

 

 

First, may I make a practical observation?

 

 

 

The reality is that weapons controls are as strict in the UK as anywhere in the world that we are aware of. From routinely armed police, through ordinary shops selling items which would not be on sale in the same way in the UK, to the numbers of guns, the UK operates tight controls by comparison with many other EU countries.

 

 

 

That provides the backdrop for our overall approach.

 

 

 

We do not want the UK to be collateral damage to European bureaucratic tightening.

 

 

 

Our approach, therefore, is to analyse and understand practical consequences and ensure that planned legislation does not inconvenience and remove the rights of ordinary people. At the same time, we will try to ensure that the proposals offer the highest possible level of genuine security protection.

 

 

 

In short, the topic is one where the devil lies in the detail.

 

 

 

We, in the EFDD and UKIP will therefore read the small print of what is proposed and ensure it will work in the real world.

 

 

 

You can potentially help us achieve this.

 

 

 

If you identify legal non-sense which will damage ordinary people unnecessarily whilst at the same time not improving security, please do let us know?

 

 

 

Our goal is to scrutinise what is proposed in a manner which both protects your freedoms and keeps you secure.

 

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

William Dartmouth MEP

 

___________________________________________________________________

 

Ashley Fox MEP, Conservative

Dear Mr Livefast,

 

Thank you for writing to me about proposed EU changes to firearms

classifications. The events in Paris last month were horrific and it

is important that in the wake of these monstrous actions we pursue the

guilty and bring them to justice.

 

However, I believe it is important to resist the urge to overreact and

punish the law abiding through knee-jerk political reactions. I do not

believe that had the European Commission proposed measures to tighten gun

controls across the EU been in force that this would have had any

effect on what happened in Paris.

 

None of the weapons used there were legally held by licensed residents.

They were illegally acquired and illegally used. There are

many law abiding citizens who use firearms either professionally or

recreationally. There are others who collect decommissioned guns, or

replicas thereof, perfectly legitimately. I am a supporter of both groups.

 

The Commission's proposals will now have to go through the Council of

Ministers and the European Parliament and will no doubt be subject to

change and amendment. I will certainly be considering any attempt to

tighten gun controls very carefully before voting on them in the

European Parliament next year.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Ashley Fox MEP

 

_______

Edited December 8, 2015 by Livefast123

[The Mighty Prawn]

If only they were all so reasonable Mr Livefast - a studied and sensible couple of replies