How to get a FAC?

[AlMai]

Hi all,

 

Im new to the world of shooting, having been down to a range in Cardiff for some target shooting and a hand full of clay shooting days, and now feel like it would be wise to invest in my own rifle +/ shotgun. I am at the point where I have looked at the law in detail, found a local range that I could become a member of, found what I could comfortably afford to buy and shoot, inc safes etc, have even found a few other uni students that are interested and actively shoot, and so are in the process of forming a shooting and conservation society (we have a meeting a welsh BASC rep in Jan 2016 which sounds good). Id ideally like to get to a point where I am a competent enough shooter to go stalking with a club . I am really looking now for info on what I should be doing when applying for my license, ie what should I be writing in terms of my reasons for a license? do I need to put the address and other details of the land that I intend to ( ad obviously have permission to) shoot on? do I need to have already been on a stalk prior to getting a license? do I have to buy the safe before the safety check from the police? among other basic firearms licensing questions.

Id also be interested in any places around S. Wales, mainly swansea and cardiff, that offer stalking opportunities, in addition to any land owners who would be interested allowing us (8 so far) to shoot pest on their behalf?

 

any and all help is greatly appreciated,

 

Alex

[CharlieT]

I would suggest reading the Firearms Law Guidance, which is pinned at the top of this section and downloading a FAC and SGC application form which will show you what information you will have to supply.

 

As far as stalking is concerned, there are many professional stalkers who offer guided stalking for individuals with or without their own rifle. Check out the shooting press or the Stalking Directory (google it).

As far as landowners are concerned, this will involve a lot of door knocking and the ability to pay a large sum for the lease on stalking rights sufficient for a group of 8 stalkers.

[dougall]

SGC & FAC are 2 v different things.

SGC is granted unless good reason found not to.will need cabinet for storage at home.(If home a student temporary place not so straight forward though).

FAC you have to show proper reason for wanting/them. Gunclub all good for target type rifles,when used for sport/killing things need the approved land and land owners permission and currently likely to want mentoring in place.....do not expect to get a deer calibre rifle straight off......

Your local firearms enquiry officer(feo) should be your first port of call.

[robbiep]

As Dougall has said, basically.

 

For a SGC (shotgun certificate), you do not have to show 'good reason' to possess. So you don't have to be part of an official club, or do regular pest control / wildfowling, etc.

 

For FAC (Firearms Certificate) it follows one of two routes (though it can be both).

1. You are a member of an 'official' Home Office Approved rifle club, and have been a member for some time. You can apply for calibres suitable for use at the club ranges, BUT your certificate will be conditioned for target ONLY. Any pest / deer shooting with those rifles would be a breach of the conditions on the FAC. If your membership lapses, then your 'good reason' also vanishes, and your FAC can be revoked. The club is required to inform the police if your membership lapses.

 

2. You own / have permission to carry out pest control / deer management on land. You apply for FAC for suitable calibres to do so.

 

In case (2) the police may well want to see a 'mentoring' condition in place for some time, or only grant a smaller calibre initially, until you have some experience. In addition, a lot of police forces want to see a DSC 1 (Deer stalking certificate level 1 qualification) in place before they will grant 'deer calibres'

[AlMai]

perfect, thanks for the info all!

robbiep, in relation to the DSC 1, ive been looking at a few courses with basc, which although are fairly expensive (£290) I am more than happy to pay, if it will show that i am committed to safe shooting practices. I would like to be able to stalk deer, but would ideally like to target shoot aswell, if i were to be licensed for stalking with a deer calibre, would i have to separately prove that i have reasonable cause to target shoot or would it be encompassed by the license to deer stalk? or would i need a smaller calibre rifle (such as a .22 oor .243?)

[Livefast123]

If you already have an FAC for vermin control / stalking then you still have to join a home office approved target club to get guns conditioned for target shooting. To join a target club you would first have to become a probationary member and pass the clubs probationay period to become a full member.

 

Bear in mind that most club ranges have ballistic limits so your deer calibre rifle may not be allowed.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Livefast123

[kent]

perfect, thanks for the info all!

robbiep, in relation to the DSC 1, ive been looking at a few courses with basc, which although are fairly expensive (£290) I am more than happy to pay, if it will show that i am committed to safe shooting practices. I would like to be able to stalk deer, but would ideally like to target shoot aswell, if i were to be licensed for stalking with a deer calibre, would i have to separately prove that i have reasonable cause to target shoot or would it be encompassed by the license to deer stalk? or would i need a smaller calibre rifle (such as a .22 oor .243?)

Bit grey that if you have a fac conditioned for deer then your rifle can be used for zeroing on a range

If it's scored thier is an argument it's not zeroing and you can't use expanding at most clubs. BDS gun club is an exception to that one and some clubs don't allow expanding even for practice and zero

Perhaps most who shoot at small local ranges with cf are first and foremost stalkers and vermin guys keeping thier eye in

[old'un]

Not that big on rifle shooting, I have a .22 rim fire for a few rabbits and fox that i shoot but reading this thread I am a bit confused, are you saying you cannot zero a rifle on approved land?

[robbiep]

Not that big on rifle shooting, I have a .22 rim fire for a few rabbits and fox that i shoot but reading this thread I am a bit confused, are you saying you cannot zero a rifle on approved land?

 

No, what is being said that your FAC has conditions. In your case, if you have a read of your conditions, you'll see that zeroing is specifically allowed for.

 

What is NOT allowed for (for you) is target shooting competitively. Which is completely different to shooting at a few targets to check your zero.

[deershooter]

Hi all,

 

Im new to the world of shooting, having been down to a range in Cardiff for some target shooting and a hand full of clay shooting days, and now feel like it would be wise to invest in my own rifle +/ shotgun. I am at the point where I have looked at the law in detail, found a local range that I could become a member of, found what I could comfortably afford to buy and shoot, inc safes etc, have even found a few other uni students that are interested and actively shoot, and so are in the process of forming a shooting and conservation society (we have a meeting a welsh BASC rep in Jan 2016 which sounds good). Id ideally like to get to a point where I am a competent enough shooter to go stalking with a club . I am really looking now for info on what I should be doing when applying for my license, ie what should I be writing in terms of my reasons for a license? do I need to put the address and other details of the land that I intend to ( ad obviously have permission to) shoot on? do I need to have already been on a stalk prior to getting a license? do I have to buy the safe before the safety check from the police? among other basic firearms licensing questions.

Id also be interested in any places around S. Wales, mainly swansea and cardiff, that offer stalking opportunities, in addition to any land owners who would be interested allowing us (8 so far) to shoot pest on their behalf?

 

any and all help is greatly appreciated,

 

Alex

 

For a start I don't think you will be allowed a fulbore rifle until you have owned a small bore rifle for a few years ,all police forces don't normally issue a firearms certificate for full bore until you have experance shooting a smaller caliber rifle .You might also find that you can only shoot with a mentor at the start .

You also cannot apply for a licence (FAC) until you are a full member of a rifle club if you want to target shoot which will take between 3-6 months . The police won't also be happy for 8 people to shoot on the same land ,it's a recipe for disaster at some time some one will go and not tell the others and then could possibly get shot . Remember it's up to you to prove you need a FAC not an automatic right .please learn to walk before you try and run

 

Good luck

[Danoi99]

I don't think anyone should attempt to dive right in on the full bore scene without having gained sufficient skill/ experience with smaller calibers first.

 

As Deer Shooter said, please learn to walk before you try and run.

 

It amazes me that people often ask the sort of questions that easily identifies them as someone who is not ready. Had they a real desire to get into the scene, one might imagine that they'd done a little reading on the whole subject............am I mistaken?

 

I'm not having a pop mate. ATB

[Lloyd90]

I don't think anyone should attempt to dive right in on the full bore scene without having gained sufficient skill/ experience with smaller calibers first.

 

As Deer Shooter said, please learn to walk before you try and run.

 

It amazes me that people often ask the sort of questions that easily identifies them as someone who is not ready. Had they a real desire to get into the scene, one might imagine that they'd done a little reading on the whole subject............am I mistaken?

 

I'm not having a pop mate. ATB

Reading up on the subject you can easily get lost fantasising about all the stuff YOU WOULD LIKE lol! But as said fst chance without being a member of a club or having land to shoot.

 

Are you a student atm ?

 

It's bloody hard work getting any land to shoot on, let alone deer stalking land. Deer stalking land in Wales and that's like rocking horse ****.

 

Have a look into getting beating on a pheasant shoot, there's a few about Cardiff way!

[Davyo]

I don't think anyone should attempt to dive right in on the full bore scene without having gained sufficient skill/ experience with smaller calibers first.

 

As Deer Shooter said, please learn to walk before you try and run.

 

It amazes me that people often ask the sort of questions that easily identifies them as someone who is not ready. Had they a real desire to get into the scene, one might imagine that they'd done a little reading on the whole subject............am I mistaken?

 

I'm not having a pop mate. ATB

+1, I had to serve my time on small cal before stepping up to 243,but personally I think it's the way it should be.However was recently shocked when learning someone in the same Licencing area got granted .22,17HMR,223 & 243 on first application with no rifle experiance what so ever.Good luck to the chap but it's rather working that Licencing departments (Durham in question) are doing this but then imposing mentoring conditions,medical forms ect on others.Its like a lottery at the moment with FAC grants & accidents waiting to happen.I think it's about time that some sort of compantacy test should be brought in.I know my statement will cause a knee jerk reaction from the PW masses,but it's alarming the amount of questions that get asked on this forum & the variation in answers is rather worrying.

[Dekers]

+1, I had to serve my time on small cal before stepping up to 243,but personally I think it's the way it should be.However was recently shocked when learning someone in the same Licencing area got granted .22,17HMR,223 & 243 on first application with no rifle experiance what so ever.Good luck to the chap but it's rather working that Licencing departments (Durham in question) are doing this but then imposing mentoring conditions,medical forms ect on others.Its like a lottery at the moment with FAC grants & accidents waiting to happen.I think it's about time that some sort of compantacy test should be brought in.I know my statement will cause a knee jerk reaction from the PW masses,but it's alarming the amount of questions that get asked on this forum & the variation in answers is rather worrying.

 

 

I agree with much you write, but why are you shocked people get centrefire on first grant, there is absolutely no legal reason why they shouldn't if they can demonstrate good reason.

 

It seems true that many people will not, but that is down to the whim of the region, not the law.

[Scully]

I think a lot depends on an applicants background and circumstances.

My 21 year old nephew was granted both rf and cf on his first application without a mentoring condition, but he is from a farming background and has owned shotguns and been firing rifles from a very early age. Most of his mates have similar backgrounds.

Anyone wanting a rifle will firstly, not be granted without somewhere to shoot it. If they live on a farm or come from a very rural background then there is a very good chance they have used one before. If not, then they will most likely have to become a member of a target shooting club.

The same goes with shotguns; I don't know of anyone who simply applied for a shotgun without anywhere to shoot it or the intention of just keeping it in their cabinet. If they have a rural background they will probably have used one before or have mates who can show them the ropes. Those without land will be shooting on clay grounds so can receive instruction there.

The point I am trying to make is that despite those claiming there are 'accidents waiting to happen', statistically that obviously isn't the case. There are very few people out there who simply decide to apply for a firearm and then manage to get to the buying stage without actually firing one.

[Davyo]

I agree with much you write, but why are you shocked people get centrefire on first grant, there is absolutely no legal reason why they shouldn't if they can demonstrate good reason.

 

It seems true that many people will not, but that is down to the whim of the region, not the law.

Sorry Dekers,should of made myself clear "shocked at grant at first application with Zero rifle experiance this includes zero handling"like Scully say's I could understand grant if they come from a shooting back ground & have had some handling experiance.But I do think it's time that we all accept that a compantacy test before grant is the way forward.Look at some of the paid deer stalking days now asking for DS1/2 as compulsary,they are asking for a reason as they fell without these an FAC holder is not compitant.Would be more reassuring for the general public as well if there where a certificate of compitance as well as a grant.I know this is a pretty hard statement and not ment to cause argument but I fell compulsory tests are on the way regardless.

[Scully]

Why do you 'think it's time we all accept that a competency test before grant is the way forward'? Our shooting organisations feel there is no need, nor do the insurance underwriters, nor our licensing authorities, but you do. Why?

Just the other day you were criticising those who you claimed were trying to tell us when we could and couldn't shoot (Christmas day thread) and now you are wanting to place unnecessary obstacles in the way of those who would like to take up shooting!

[Dekers]

Why do you 'think it's time we all accept that a competency test before grant is the way forward'? Our shooting organisations feel there is no need, nor do the insurance underwriters, nor our licensing authorities, but you do. Why?

Just the other day you were criticising those who you claimed were trying to tell us when we could and couldn't shoot (Christmas day thread) and now you are wanting to place unnecessary obstacles in the way of those who would like to take up shooting!

 

....and where are all the accident figures that show shooting, and new shooters in particular are a problem?

[Dougy]

 

....and where are all the accident figures that show shooting, and new shooters in particular are a problem?

 

One on the 23rd of December was one too many, if the poor chap was not a new shooter then that only puts it into perspective. They are a world apart from most of our 1st ever shooting experience, and that being an Air Rifle..

[robbiep]

 

One on the 23rd of December was one too many, if the poor chap was not a new shooter then that only puts it into perspective. They are a world apart from most of our 1st ever shooting experience, and that being an Air Rifle..

 

Utter speculation, and utter nonsense.

 

From what I've heard, the unfortunate person was a keeper (so proficient with guns) who seems to have slipped into or by a ditch, with tragic consequences.

If ANY accidents are 'one too many', then trained, qualified drivers should be all banned from the roads instantly, and us all forced to walk everywhere. Because people die on the roads daily.

[walshie]

Going from "how do I get a FAC" to getting a deer calibre is a fairly big step. Especially from someone who asked the question but hasn't bothered coming back to read the answer.

[Dekers]

 

One on the 23rd of December was one too many, if the poor chap was not a new shooter then that only puts it into perspective. They are a world apart from most of our 1st ever shooting experience, and that being an Air Rifle..

 

 

As #20 above!

 

-----------------------------

 

It also concerns me that some numbnuts who have never seen a gun before, can go and get a DSC and promptly stick it under some regions nose, proclaiming it makes them an expert and demanding a .308, which they will commonly get.

 

Just the same, Legally held Firearms "accident" rates are very low, you will never see them bandied about as a reason for training, simply because it does not appear to be a valid reason.

 

And if testing for safety reasons is not required then what case do you actually have for enforced training?!

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Dekers

[neutron619]

I agree with much you write, but why are you shocked people get centrefire on first grant, there is absolutely no legal reason why they shouldn't if they can demonstrate good reason.

 

It seems true that many people will not, but that is down to the whim of the region, not the law.

 

Just for the record, I got .308 (and only .308) on a first FAC because I wanted to shoot deer. I did my DSC1 (which demonstrated dedication to the sport - the police wanted it and let's face it - nobody lays out £100s for something they can't really be bothered with) and showed them evidence of deer on the land I wanted to shoot on. The ticket would have come back in 3 days if I'd have been available to collect it on the day it was ready.

 

I can understand why there are some people here saying you should "work up to it" as though that meant anything: they're afflicted by a delusion that a .22/55 grain bullet doing 2900fps, fired by a numpty, is less dangerous than a .30/150 grain bullet doing 2900fps, fired by the same numpty. You won't be surprised to hear that this delusion affects some firearms licensing departments also, but the fact that officialdom suffer the same symptoms doesn't make the delusion any more real.

 

If you need a rifle to shoot deer and they cannot show a reason you should not be granted a rifle to shoot deer, they will grant you a rifle to shoot deer because they are obliged by law to do so.

 

Oh, and apart from anything else - do not ask for a .243 for your first deer rifle. There is no doubt that with correct shot placement and in the hands of an expert that both .243 Winchester and some smaller calibres will kill deer cleanly. However, it must be considered marginal in the hands of a novice and you will do much better with something of at least .25 calibre and preferably larger.

 

Edit: Oh - and having seen Dekers post above, which seems to be directed exactly towards my situation - I do not claim to be an expert. I simply jumped the hoops required of me, bought my rifle (which was in a calibre with sufficient excess "capacity" for a new stalker hunting all kinds of deer) and then set about learning how to be a better stalker under a self-imposed programme of mentored trips under the supervision of local experts which continues to this day.

Edited December 27, 2015 by neutron619

[Luckyshot]

 

Just for the record, I got .308 (and only .308) on a first FAC because I wanted to shoot deer. I did my DSC1 (which demonstrated dedication to the sport - the police wanted it and let's face it - nobody lays out £100s for something they can't really be bothered with) and showed them evidence of deer on the land I wanted to shoot on. The ticket would have come back in 3 days if I'd have been available to collect it on the day it was ready.

 

I can understand why there are some people here saying you should "work up to it" as though that meant anything: they're afflicted by a delusion that a .22/55 grain bullet doing 2900fps, fired by a numpty, is less dangerous than a .30/150 grain bullet doing 2900fps, fired by the same numpty. You won't be surprised to hear that this delusion affects some firearms licensing departments also, but the fact that officialdom suffer the same symptoms doesn't make the delusion any more real.

 

If you need a rifle to shoot deer and they cannot show a reason you should not be granted a rifle to shoot deer, they will grant you a rifle to shoot deer because they are obliged by law to do so.

 

Oh, and apart from anything else - do not ask for a .243 for your first deer rifle. There is no doubt that with correct shot placement and in the hands of an expert that both .243 Winchester and some smaller calibres will kill deer cleanly. However, it must be considered marginal in the hands of a novice and you will do much better with something of at least .25 calibre and preferably larger.

 

Edit: Oh - and having seen Dekers post above, which seems to be directed exactly towards my situation - I do not claim to be an expert. I simply jumped the hoops required of me, bought my rifle (which was in a calibre with sufficient excess "capacity" for a new stalker hunting all kinds of deer) and then set about learning how to be a better stalker under a self-imposed programme of mentored trips under the supervision of local experts which continues to this day.

 

Your post was going well until the red bit, nothing wrong with a 243 for stalking and correct shot placement goes for all calibres on any animal. You do not need to be an expert to cleanly kill a deer with a 243.

[neutron619]

 

Your post was going well until the red bit, nothing wrong with a 243 for stalking and correct shot placement goes for all calibres on any animal. You do not need to be an expert to cleanly kill a deer with a 243.

 

Well, fair enough if you think differently, but there was more experience behind that comment than meets the eye. Let's just say I'm a proponent of the "slow heavy bullet" school and that a .243 does not lend itself well to that approach - not least because the cartridge came about because of an attempt to launch lighter bullets faster from a case designed with lower muzzle velocities and heavier bullets in mind.

 

I agree that you don't have to be an expert to kill a deer with a .243 - to some extent. Much in the same way that you don't have to be an expert shot to shoot high birds with a .410 - point the gun in the right place and it'll all go well. However, much as the denser pattern provided by a 12 gauge will provide a bit of "wiggle room" on the high birds, a larger-than-.243 calibre will give a bit more wiggle room on the deer. A bigger bullet can create more bullet fragments / bigger wound channel / more shock which gives you that wiggle room - I'm not saying it always happens and a gut shot is still a gut shot, but to the less experienced stalker, every little helps.

Edited December 27, 2015 by neutron619