why 12ft pounds why not 20 or 30 ft pounds

[tunza]

you tell me

[Albert 888]

A limit has to be set, so I guess 12ftlb is what it is. 12ftlb is good for what it's needed for, at sensible distances.

[fenboy]

Why should it be --- you tell me !

[GingerCat]

Rumour has it that 12 ftlbs was the power that an air rifle was capable of putting a pellet through a thickness (can't remember how thick) of board (can't remember what board either) but not through a second piece and was decided in the time before cronos.

6 ftlbs was a just halving the power of a rifle and they used a thinner board. How true this is I don't know but it was in a notable airgun book I read as a child and still makes sense so probably truer than not.

[evo]

you tell me

tunza,, can YOU explain why you think it should be higher than 12ftlb

 

there is enough idiots about with air rifles without having high power ones,

 

if you want high power then apply for FAC,,,,,simples really

[Albert 888]

Was it 1/4". I also remember somthing allong those lines. My grandfather had an octagonal barrel 177 that went through 1/2" ply board,he cut it in half and gave to the police station.

[12gauge82]

I believe it was because that was about the best that British manufactures could produce at the time and to stop people buying foreign they set the limit at 12ftlb

[Lord Geordie]

It wasn't the best they could produce! It cam about because they wanted to PROTECT the British gun industry. They looked at foreign gun power and set the UK to 12fpe. This was way below foreign guns, and the thought train behind it was "foreign manufacturers wouldn't bother reducing power" there for allowing uk manufacturers to make more sales! Now all and sundry make PCP which can be fettled easily to be below the 12FPE, and the majority of British manufacturers are gone, I feel its time to drop it. Either that or those with SGC, or FAC should be allowed to own on ticket an airgun not restricted to the 12fpe limit. But not over 35fpe unless on FAC. Muzzle energy of a shotgun with multiple projectiles is far more dangerous that a single projectile. Buck shot is .38cal balls flying at between 1100 and 1500 FPS. If your licence covers that, I don't see why you cant have an airgun on there too.

[Underdog]

It wasn't the best they could produce! It cam about because they wanted to PROTECT the British gun industry. They looked at foreign gun power and set the UK to 12fpe. This was way below foreign guns, and the thought train behind it was "foreign manufacturers wouldn't bother reducing power" there for allowing uk manufacturers to make more sales! Now all and sundry make PCP which can be fettled easily to be below the 12FPE, and the majority of British manufacturers are gone, I feel its time to drop it. Either that or those with SGC, or FAC should be allowed to own on ticket an airgun not restricted to the 12fpe limit. But not over 35fpe unless on FAC. Muzzle energy of a shotgun with multiple projectiles is far more dangerous that a single projectile. Buck shot is .38cal balls flying at between 1100 and 1500 FPS. If your licence covers that, I don't see why you cant have an airgun on there too.

Good point.

[Longbower]

I'm in total agreement with Lord Geordie, It's just common sense. The law as it stands, . We have to obey it but we don't have to like it.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Longbower

[Lord Geordie]

Good point.

Course it is! Those .38 balls are doing around 300 fpe. Now if a shotgun cert gives you the nod for multiple projectiles at that power! Why not a single at 35 fpe? It doesn't make sense!

 

The rifled barrel argument dont cut it with me either! A rifled barrel is more accurate at a specific target than smooth bore! Less likelihood of a stray than 6 or 9 .38 cal balls flying down range!

[Longbower]

Perhaps the BASC, could 'lobby' on our behalf.?? But , don't hold your breath.

[12gauge82]

It wasn't the best they could produce! It cam about because they wanted to PROTECT the British gun industry. They looked at foreign gun power and set the UK to 12fpe. This was way below foreign guns, and the thought train behind it was "foreign manufacturers wouldn't bother reducing power" there for allowing uk manufacturers to make more sales! Now all and sundry make PCP which can be fettled easily to be below the 12FPE, and the majority of British manufacturers are gone, I feel its time to drop it. Either that or those with SGC, or FAC should be allowed to own on ticket an airgun not restricted to the 12fpe limit. But not over 35fpe unless on FAC. Muzzle energy of a shotgun with multiple projectiles is far more dangerous that a single projectile. Buck shot is .38cal balls flying at between 1100 and 1500 FPS. If your licence covers that, I don't see why you cant have an airgun on there too.

This is a long version of what I was trying to say although I thought UK manufactures of the time were struggling to produce air rifles at more than 12ftlb and to protect UK intrests set the limit to prevent people buying foreign.

[sitsinhedges]

The ironic thing back then was unless it involved a specialist laboratory no-one including the Police had any means to actually measure power.

[kent]

There was very little that actually did 12 ftlb when the limit was set. We were looking at webley mk4 and early airsporters right?

There were some American pump guns that you could basically carry on pumping but actually I believe it was to stop development of super high power airguns when firearm restrictions were first brought in for more of the powder burners.

 

I am following meeting an innocent victim who ended up loosing a third of his brain in favour of Licencing on 12 ft lb

If we do our own thing we can get away with a Shotgun style licence with a simple legislation change. If we wait we will get fac because it's real simple to bring in

 

Airguns are not the great recruiter to our sport they once where and I believe the misuse and calls for more controls do our sport more harm than good

They also cost our organisations to great an amount to fight against the memberships subs

 

Think on also currently we have the situation were many rifles are made close to the limit and small faults can lead to a possession charge.

 

The days are gone when a young lad could walk out with his Airgun to shoot rats on waste ground or along the canal without anyone or the police even bothering

 

Raise it? My gosh that would really stir up a storm it's bad enough the number numpties trying to lift the power with thier diy

Edited February 6, 2016 by kent

[clanchief]

Take all of the above answers and divide by pie, or discard totally. In reality when the regs were set out to the level we have to comply to we looked at the maximum distance we could shoot at live quarry with open sights on at airgun, we realise that we need to have a minimum sufficient power at 30 to 35 yards similar to a shotgun pellet striking energy to kill our target, that is around 3 to 4 ft lbs so to take that back to the gun realistically is around 12 ft lbs, with energy depleting to get to the target/quarry etc.

 

If you want more power get a a ticket, the cost easily outweighs the pcp charging and fudging around to get a sweet spot, the guns are generally better built and quieter, not to mention depending on model more accurate.

[Bleeh]

If you think Airgun laws are stupid, just go buy a 240lb draw-weight crossbow.

[guzzicat]

I thought crossbows were illegal on live game in U/K ?

[Underdog]

So is hunting with a pack of hounds lol.

[guzzicat]

Not a fox driven to guns

[Bleeh]

I thought crossbows were illegal on live game in U/K ?

 

 

My point is you are only allowed a 12ft/lb Airgun because any more is apparently dangerous. But you can go and buy a crossbow that can shoot straight through a person without much hassle.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bleeh

[motty]

My point is you are only allowed a 12ft/lb Airgun because any more is apparently dangerous. But you can go and buy a crossbow that can shoot straight through a person without much hassle.

Sorry, that makes no sense.

[Twistedsanity]

Why 70mph? Why not 50 or 120?

[sitsinhedges]

Sorry, that makes no sense.

 

Of course it makes sense.

[12gauge82]

Sorry, that makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense to me, he's showing how crazy the legislation is.