Scully Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/breaking-policing-and-crime-bill-will-criminalise-possession-of-common-tools/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 How to tie common sense in knots and still leave enough rope to hang all logical argument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 The proposed offence will carry a one year jail sentence and/or a fine if heard before magistrates, or up to 5 years in prison and/or a fine if heard before a Crown court. So, plead guilty at magistrates and get a year, go to crown court and get five. They're trying to make this the same as the cautions, frighten folk into just accepting the lesser punishment. I've got rifles and shotguns, and lathe, miller, welder, reamers etc, so am I guilty ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I've got rifles and shotguns, and lathe, miller, welder, reamers etc, so am I guilty ? Apparently so, until proven innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 From the way I read it says you have the tools "and(b) the person intends to use the article (whether by itself or with other articles) to convert an imitation firearm into a firearm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) So, plead guilty at magistrates and get a year, go to crown court and get five. They're trying to make this the same as the cautions, frighten folk into just accepting the lesser punishment. I've got rifles and shotguns, and lathe, miller, welder, reamers etc, so am I guilty ? looks like ill be in the next cell to you !!!!! as I have the tools and trained to use them. Edited February 10, 2016 by fruitloop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 From the way I read it says you have the tools "and (b) the person intends to use the article (whether by itself or with other articles) to convert an imitation firearm into a firearm." That's how I read it too but PW's never been the place to not leap on the soap box at a tangent to the quoted evidence!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just another club to beat the law abiding with, will make no difference to the criminal element who are outside of the law anyway? Anyone reading this who does not see what's coming and take action will surely bitterly regret the end result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That's how I read it too but PW's never been the place to not leap on the soap box at a tangent to the quoted evidence!! Define "Intends to use", do you mean the facts or what will be in the report when they've busted someone's door down on some anti's word ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That part or the bill is a non starter because unless you were in the act of converting a deac or have parts already converted how can some one prove you intended to. After all how many PW members have been convicted of attempted murder? We all have the tools to Plus someone with a bit of common may point that out before it becomes law. Scrub the last line. its politicians that will be discussing the bill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That part or the bill is a non starter because unless you were in the act of converting a deac or have parts already converted how can some one prove you intended to. I may be wrong but as I understood it, no one has to prove the intention, rather that the accused has to prove they had no intent. Like you suggest, hopefully it will be sorted before it becomes law, because if it is left to common sense then the accused is stuffed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I may be wrong but as I understood it, no one has to prove the intention, rather that the accused has to prove they had no intent. Surely that would be against the very basis of English law, ie that you are innocent until proven guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Surely that would be against the very basis of English law, ie that you are innocent until proven guilty. That seems to matter less and less these days, though some of us still hold a candle for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Surely that would be against the very basis of English law, ie that you are innocent until proven guilty. Totally agree, but the suggestion has been made in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 So this reads as owning a few tools can get you imprisoned for having the potential to convert firearms even if you don't have any firearms to convert? Sounds like the thought police in action, where are all the usuall subservient Wallys on here that say "if your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" ? That is Unless a member of the local constabulary thinks you have been slipping his Mrs a length behind his back....... Glad I have access the money needed to sell up and move abroad because the way this countries going that may be the way forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 looks like ill be in the next cell to you !!!!! as I have the tools and trained to use them. Book the next cell to you for me then, I'm the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Looks like we can start the PW prison branch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Engineer Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Keen-eyed readers will realise this means the police are not obliged to obey what the guidance says about the issue and revocation of FACs and SGCs, merely have regard. Whatever that means... Giving carte blanch to many police forces like Durham. Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Shooting in this countrys doomed, sad times :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 A comment from a Police officer on Faceache "I'm a police officer and I can assure you that for the offence, intention would have to be proved. Unless the person in possession of the tools admitted their intention or had already used them illegally, it couldn't be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 That part or the bill is a non starter because unless you were in the act of converting a deac or have parts already converted how can some one prove you intended to. After all how many PW members have been convicted of attempted murder? We all have the tools to Plus someone with a bit of common may point that out before it becomes law. Scrub the last line. its politicians that will be discussing the bill! That already exists in law because its an offence to have something CAPABLE of being converted into a firearm. So what does CAPABLE mean? Whatever they want it to mean I guess but it doesn't say "with intent". That makes it an absolute law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Surely that would be against the very basis of English law, ie that you are innocent until proven guilty. Seems to be the way the law of yesteryear is being skewed by the politicos of today? As an afterthought is it not the case that wording was changed to infer that to remain silent would prejudice the position of the accused? Edited February 12, 2016 by old man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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