Fuddster Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Got to agree with Kyska over the legalities point of view. for me, I dont shoot woodies in the garden-I'm fairly ruthless on my permissions so I allow them a little sanctuary. and really, what harm is having a pair of collared doves frequenting a bird table doing? f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Kyska you keep saying in the spirit of the GL. I can't understand why? The GL is quite clear on what is cause for control. We are all members of the public, we have family friends etc come to our houses and gardens so it's public health, not open to general public. You can't break the law by differing degrees, you either break it or you don't. So if you have a small veg patch and pigeons etc are scoffing it and eat half is that not serious. If you decide to theive one gold bar is that different to ten gold bars. The General licence is just that General, it should either be open to interpretation like it is now or very specific. You state food production, that's not a public place either, only used by employees, you can see how most arguments are valid and both flawed. I never read anything in the GL about the size of the crop before protection is allowed nor how much of a risk to health either. I don't shoot pigeons in my garden and try never to shoot collared doves no matter where they are. Vermin and Corvids on the pest list I will shoot in my garden. Edited March 20, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Anyone who is shooting in their garden, please remember one difference with the Wildlife and Countryside Act over nearly all of the other countless Acts is that the onus is on the Defendant to prove they were not in breach of the Act and NOT the job of the Police to prove that they were. Edited March 20, 2016 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Anyone who is shooting in their garden, please remember one difference with the Wildlife and Countryside Act over nearly all of the other countless Acts is that the onus is on the Defendant to prove they were not in breach of the Act and NOT the job of the Police to prove that they were. True but like shaggy sang it wasn't me, now prove it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 True but like shaggy sang it wasn't me, now prove it was. That is EXACTLY the point that I am making, it would be down to you to PROVE it wasn't ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I was sat in my dining room this afternoon with my air rifle out as there are multiple magpies around at the moment, whilst reading this a woody landed ontop of my chicken house and I just sat watching him stuff his face through my scope. Didnt shoot, just sat zoomed in watching him.. I have a large veg patch at the bottom of my garden and try to grow enough that i save money by not having to buy from The shops all the time, so could argue if i was to shoot one then i am protecting my crops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Kyska you keep saying in the spirit of the GL. I can't understand why? The GL is quite clear on what is cause for control. We are all members of the public, we have family friends etc come to our houses and gardens so it's public health, not open to general public. You can't break the law by differing degrees, you either break it or you don't. So if you have a small veg patch and pigeons etc are scoffing it and eat half is that not serious. If you decide to theive one gold bar is that different to ten gold bars. The General licence is just that General, it should either be open to interpretation like it is now or very specific. You state food production, that's not a public place either, only used by employees, you can see how most arguments are valid and both flawed. I never read anything in the GL about the size of the crop before protection is allowed nor how much of a risk to health either. I don't shoot pigeons in my garden and try never to shoot collared doves no matter where they are. Vermin and Corvids on the pest list I will shoot in my garden. Agreed, but your points have flaws, a garden with a bit of pigeon droppings is something we all put up with, a 1000 pigeons dropping all over feedstuff due to be put into the public domain is different, a cabbage been eaten is different to 20k damage of crops on a subsidy paid for by the public. It is all down to perspective, a pigeon crapping on your bbq isn't a public health issue, just clean it off. If you have pigeons raiding your bird table, get rid of it, you have the choice, that's where you'd fall foul of the GL in my opinion. You may as well shoot finches or blackbirds, they do the same 'damage' in their numbers. I have to state again, I don't care what people do, I just don't like the way the GL is being manipulated, I rely on pigeon control on our farm, people slotting the fat woody having a drink in the back garden does the exemption we have for legitimate bird control no favours. My main point is the GL uses the word 'serious', even if we were pedantic we should all realise what that means and how it 'should' be interpreted. The 'spirit' is this, interprete and defend yourself as you like, but is two woodies eating your bird food, or the droppings along with every other indigenous species 'serious'? Edited March 20, 2016 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 That is EXACTLY the point that I am making, it would be down to you to PROVE it wasn't ! Expensive and painful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) As I've stated, I don't shoot them in the garden but you could say what harm is the single woody doing sitting in the tree in the woods that you shoot with an air rifle it shotgun? Edited March 20, 2016 by winnie&bezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Westley as I've just said. If as you say your accused and have to prove yourself. I don't think so. You would have to be caught in the act. If accused and you say it wasn't me, why would you then have to prove your right. The onus then must change to proving your guilty. The general licence can be taken too many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Got a few wood pigeon in the garden that get fed with the other birds, one cheeky sod will let you get within a foot away from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Westley as I've just said. If as you say your accused and have to prove yourself. I don't think so. You would have to be caught in the act. If accused and you say it wasn't me, why would you then have to prove your right. The onus then must change to proving your guilty. The general licence can be taken too many ways. OK fine BUT I speak from experience ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I don't have a problem with pigeons or squirrels but with deer and rabbits. Deer are eating my young trees and I can get a safe shot off at them as they are always in a tricky part of the orchard. The rabbits are in my borders trying to set up home and come after dark when I am asleep. Now my dog has gone even the ducks and pheasant are back around the bird table. I often have to take a chill pill when they come in a pack and act like they own the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 OK fine BUT I speak from experience ! You get caught red handed or admit to it? I get what say about the act and needed proof you acted right. There must be just cause for them to make the claim. otherwise they could charge every Tom **** or Harry and it's then up to the individual to prove innocence,Under an act not a law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy King Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I have never shot anything off a bird table. I feed them so I can see them . that's their safe spot to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I don't shoot the birds at the bird table either. Now Squizzers yes. I put dead bait out for carrion to shoot them in a different area of garden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I shoot squirrels with a BB gun. Doesn't hurt them but scares them to death. You get to see them take off like a /rocket/ too (which I have to say is quite impressive). I also shoot at the occasional pigeon with the same BB gun if they park themselves in the tree overlooking my car; same effect. Anyone who tried to clean concrete-like pigeon **** out of a car will probably understand what I mean... Both species learn too, haven't seen a squirrel in a while, and that famous tree is rarely occupied anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Does the open license cover shooting pigeons off bird tables? I'm not sure it does. No because uou can exclude larger birds easy just mesh it off with suitable size mesh I shoot squirrels with a BB gun. Doesn't hurt them but scares them to death. You get to see them take off like a /rocket/ too (which I have to say is quite impressive). I also shoot at the occasional pigeon with the same BB gun if they park themselves in the tree overlooking my car; same effect. Anyone who tried to clean concrete-like pigeon **** out of a car will probably understand what I mean... Both species learn too, haven't seen a squirrel in a while, and that famous tree is rarely occupied anymore. Now that comes under cruelty laws. You must ensure a clean kill if you shoot at something by taking all reasonable measures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Wood pigeon are sort of cool to watch We have a pair come in to nest each year. They seem to care for each other a lot and do no more harm than pinch a little fruit and berries, which I can't begrudge them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Surely a bit of skill should come into our sport? a stalk,a foreshore crawl,not attracting birds to feed then sticking a gun a gun up their beak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Surely a bit of skill should come into our sport? a stalk,a foreshore crawl,not attracting birds to feed then sticking a gun a gun up their beak Shooting vermin and pests is not done for sport but to control or eradicate them. The fella using the plastic BB gun isn't shooting to harm or kill them but to scare them away and letting them live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Shooting vermin and pests is not done for sport but to control or eradicate them. The fella using the plastic BB gun isn't shooting to harm or kill them but to scare them away and letting them live. At a guess I would suggest that 99% of shooters do so for sport. I've never met anyone, excepting farmers, who don't. If you don't shoot for sport and enjoyment why would you bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Pest control is enjoyable but it is not sport! As shooters we employ sporting means to harvest game/wildfowl!........we employ any effective means (including unsporting means) to kill pest species.....would you shoot a grouse, partridge, woodcock, snipe or pheasant sitting on the ground? A duck swimming on a pond? Or a hare sitting in its form? Edited March 24, 2016 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Pest control is enjoyable but it is not sport! As shooters we employ sporting means to harvest game/wildfowl!........we employ any effective means (including unsporting means) to kill pest species.....would you shoot a grouse, partridge, woodcock, snipe or pheasant sitting on the ground? A duck swimming on a pond? Or a hare sitting in its form? Pigeon shooting is no less a sporting challenge, infact some would say more so, than a great fat phesant that does not have more than 30 seconds capability for powered flight. Quite why people suggest they shoot pigeon and crows for any other reason than their own sport is beyond me. The humble pigeon has to be one of the most sporting and challenging quarry species there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Pigeon shooting is no less a sporting challenge, infact some would say more so, than a great fat phesant that does not have more than 30 seconds capability for powered flight. Quite why people suggest they shoot pigeon and crows for any other reason than their own sport is beyond me. The humble pigeon has to be one of the most sporting and challenging quarry species there is. That might be outside the terms of the general licence. *** sport *** No way its a Bl**dy nessesary evil. poor little things not as if they do any harm pigeons is it. And it would be * so outside the spirit of the general licence to and that would never do. :lol: Edited March 24, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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