EU referendum

[Paul223]

Well like many on here I made my mind up some time back, however I do have one (unanswerable) question, if this country votes to 'remain' will the UK eventually be swallowed up into a Europe superstate, euros in yer pocket the lot?

 

Soooo.... If you had the chance to ask a question to both the IN and OUT camps leaders what would that question be?

 

Ps I believe the answer to my question to be yes, sadly.

[robbiep]

I entered into this referendum campaign not knowing which way I was going to vote : Basically, I was willing to be persuaded by either side, and hoping to hear some cogent arguments to assist me in making my decision.

Unfortunately, the entire campaign has been terrible - from both camps. More and more ludicrous claims from both sides.

I know people who are voting 'remain' because they have been told that the EU is the reason we haven't had a war in Europe for decades. Another has been persuaded by the 'remain' camp that all brits working abroad will be deported back home if we vote to leave.

 

The only thing that has really persuaded me was a single leaflet that was dropped through the door, which asked that if this was a vote on whether to join the EU, how would I vote, and to bear that in mind on polling day.

 

So I will, after all that, be voting not to join.

[Danger-Mouse]

Look at it this way. Currently 19 member states have the Euro as their currency. All new states that wish to join must adopt the Euro as their currency. That means that any vote that benefits a eurozone country has a high likelihood of passing, in fact it`s pretty much a slam dunk. And this is a system that we, continuing to use Sterling, have to try and negotiate for our own best interests and that we can allegedly reform.

 

Personally I can`t see how that`s going to happen. I think that either we end up an isolated suburb of Europe or we become part of their federal state. Neither of which is an attractive option. In that case all we can hope for is that other countries fueled by our referendum debate opt out and the entire house of cards comes crashing down. We just have to hope that if/when that happens we don`t get too badly burnt.

 

Hopefully though it will all be irrelevent on Fri and we`ll be setting our own course in the future.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Danger-Mouse

[panoma1]

It's certainly a very real risk if we stay in! But you will never get an honest and definitive answer because you cannot trust the word of a politician!

 

What is certain is we won't.........if we're out!

[ShootingEgg]

I dont see any point in asking a question yo the remain camp after seeing DC on the special of QT last night, her answered a sum total of no questions. Constantly referred to the economy and how bad it will be if we leave.

Edited June 20, 2016 by ShootingEgg

[Lloyd90]

Genuine question ,

 

If we leave or even if we stay , will this (even if temporary) effect the exchange rate between pounds and euros ?

 

I'm voting out either way, just wondering as I've just booked a holiday in Lanzarote lol!

 

I'm not worried that if we leave I won't be able to go, they rely on money pumped into the country from us!

[Deker]

i believe it will, if we vote to stay in the EU this week I think we've lost all bargaining power with them as they'll know that the majority of UK want to stay, at that point it'll be a matter of do as they say

[KFC]

As with the common market vote in '75, it will be assumed that it's a yes to all manner of 'accords' that are being hidden and over which we'll have no say and I dread to think what is in the pipeline.

 

Out out out!!!

[oowee]

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

[ShootingEgg]

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

Very easy to have something written down, we weren't meant to bail Greece out but we did... That statement is worth nothing

[Walker570]

I would have two questions:-

 

1. Can I please see the fully audited accounts of the European Union for the last twenty years please?

 

2. Who is going to top up the loss of the huge sum of money we contribute to the EU funds ?

[oowee]

Very easy to have something written down, we weren't meant to bail Greece out but we did... That statement is worth nothing

Thats easy to say with no evidence a statement in itself worth nothing.

 

Its worth more in than out and the restriction of benefits to migrants (another of the pledges) was backed by the EU court of justice last week.

[Lloyd90]

Thats easy to say with no evidence a statement in itself worth nothing.

 

Its worth more in than out and the restriction of benefits to migrants (another of the pledges) was backed by the EU court of justice last week.

If we weren't having a referendum they almost certainly wouldn't have ruled that way! Soon as we are in I can't see if being upheld that long.

[rodp]

If we weren't having a referendum they almost certainly wouldn't have ruled that way! Soon as we are in I can't see if being upheld that long.

^^ This ^^. If we stay in then you just watch the goal posts move. Cameron, if he's in, will just come out with some rubbish about bartering away existing rules to get a "better deal" What's more, be interesting to see in a few years just who on the remain campaign gets a cushy eu job if we stay in

[derbyduck]

well I voted not to go into the common market all those years ago , I will vote Leave !

[FalconFN]

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

This is the correct answer.

[rodp]

make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

 

This is the correct answer.

Ah, that'll be just about as correct as Cameron's "I'll bring immigration down drastically" then, down to a few thousand. Some folk you assume are quite intelligent can be so gullible at times

 

I don't believe you honestly assume that statement to be true. You know as well as I do they will manoeuvre out of it and we'll end up just a tiny part of a federal europe, with little or no say.

[FalconFN]

I would have two questions:-

 

1. Can I please see the fully audited accounts of the European Union for the last twenty years please?

 

2. Who is going to top up the loss of the huge sum of money we contribute to the EU funds ?

Good questions, the first is open to debate but the accounts have been 'signed off' but it is known that there are errors in them - don't ask me what, I imagine it'll be some technical legalease but either way it ay be small but it wouldn't wash with a major company.

 

No one country in the short term as we'll still be paying until we sort out the exit strategy - if we stopped paying we'd probably instantly loose trading rights and may even be taken to court etc. In the longer term the budget will have to be set and rebates recalculated accordingly.

[Savhmr]

This is the correct answer.

 

Is it?

 

The EU are going to steam ahead with political integration and our current vetos will be up for grabs. They are not worth the paper they're written on. We've already had to contribute sterling into a bail out, against the terms of our agreements so what makes you think that they will honour current status quo? Come the time, they'll simply put it to a vote of member states and we'll have no option. Full tax harmonisation is already in the pipeline along with control of interest rates and you don't think that will affect Sterling? They've already said that our rebate will be cut for the next two years and no-one knows whether net contributions will be £10 billion or more, but more is likely from the postulating. It is rather frightening what they've crammed into the pipeline by all accounts, waiting for the referendum to finish and then they'll hit us with some very punitive changes as we will have lost all respect and bargaining power. Of course, they're also forgetting that it is absolutely within the power of Parliament to pass another motion for a referendum in the case that we have been sold up the swanny and if that happens, there'll be little doubt about the outcome, unlike now. No-one in their right mind would vote to stay in such circumstances but it would make for a messy divorce.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Savhmr

[FalconFN]

Ah, that'll be just about as correct as Cameron's "I'll bring immigration down drastically" then, down to a few thousand. Some folk you assume are quite intelligent can be so gullible at times

 

I don't believe you honestly assume that statement to be true. You know as well as I do they will manoeuvre out of it and we'll end up just a tiny part of a federal europe, with little or no say.

There is a vast difference between a non binding pledge made by a politician and legally binding clauses in a treaty.

 

The reality is if we left we could never get anywhere near the same deal again if we were to want to rejoin at a later date, which is why it is so important to make the right decision first time based on the few facts we have. What the post brexit trade deal will be is one of the biggest reasons why I'm not 100% sure on an out vote, after all we will be relying on our politicians to hammer out a deal that at least matches what we have now - not an easy thing to do at the best of times.

[Scully]

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

 

Recognition that the UK has no commitment to further political integration, doesn't mean that they can't change the level of political integration at some time in the future. Is anyone aware of what the 'specific situation' is or indeed what the 'next revision' will include or indeed the 'relevant provisions', and what is the likelihood of any or all of these to change?

[Savhmr]

There is a vast difference between a non binding pledge made by a politician and legally binding clauses in a treaty.

 

The reality is if we left we could never get anywhere near the same deal again if we were to want to rejoin at a later date, which is why it is so important to make the right decision first time based on the few facts we have. What the post brexit trade deal will be is one of the biggest reasons why I'm not 100% sure on an out vote, after all we will be relying on our politicians to hammer out a deal that at least matches what we have now - not an easy thing to do at the best of times.

 

If we left what on earth makes you think we'd ever want to re-join? Surely the whole point about leaving is that many believe that we'd be better off longer term, especially where trade with the commonwealth, China and India is concerned? I agree that the current bunch of politicians couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag so hold out little hope of any really good deal if we leave but the effects are unlikely to be any more than short to medium term anyway.

[rodp]

There is a vast difference between a non binding pledge made by a politician and legally binding clauses in a treaty.

 

The reality is if we left we could never get anywhere near the same deal again if we were to want to rejoin at a later date, which is why it is so important to make the right decision first time based on the few facts we have. What the post brexit trade deal will be is one of the biggest reasons why I'm not 100% sure on an out vote, after all we will be relying on our politicians to hammer out a deal that at least matches what we have now - not an easy thing to do at the best of times.

That is until our government give the legally binding clauses away. Why would we want to rejoin, would anyone in their right mind join it now? Regarding trade, so europe don't want to trade with us then ? france and Germany don't want to sell us their cars, Italy doesn't want to sell white goods here ? I can just see the car manufacturers rolling over when their governments tell them to "Be good little boys and don't send those nasty brits any pap paps" ............ yeah right That's so unlikely it's laughable.

[Deker]

 

If we left what on earth makes you think we'd ever want to re-join? Surely the whole point about leaving is that many believe that we'd be better off longer term, especially where trade with the commonwealth, China and India is concerned? I agree that the current bunch of politicians couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag so hold out little hope of any really good deal if we leave but the effects are unlikely to be any more than short to medium term anyway.

 

 

If we leave there won't be an EU in a few years, the remaining countries who actually put in more than they take out will not be able to afford it without raising taxes etc, they'll start leaving leaving en mass and these "can't manage on our own" and "trading" discussions will be void.

[FalconFN]

To suggest we would never want to rejoin is a little naive. We cannot even agree how a Britain will begin to leave let alone what subsequent trade deals we will have or what the national and international economic situation will be in 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years will be like.