Brexit - Merged Threads

[yod dropper]

Chancellor George Osborne has vowed to create a "more outward-looking, global-facing Britain" following the UK vote to leave the European Union.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36760859

 

This is where the growth is, not in the stagnant economic pit of the EU. No more of this insular EU inward looking mentality. No more 'little European'.

 

At last, common sense prevails.

[McSpredder]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isn't legal and needs a review .....

As it is a legal argument, presumably the review that barristers are demanding would have to be carried out by barristers.

 

A job-creation scheme?

[mick miller]

Barristers...lol...guys, get over it!

[Vince Green]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isnt legal and needs a review by the "grown ups" i cant see Brexit happening this is going to be talked out and common sense will prevail

That's not quite how I read it, they said it would need an act of parliament, which is reasonable given that we are a parliamentary democracy. However, by what form of telepathy did 1000 Barristers suddenly all get the urge to write to David Cameron?

 

It was their trade assn., representing over 1000 Barristers, subtle difference.

[MrM]

Seeing as Parliament drafted the referendum bill in the first place, they probably already knew it wasn't a legally binding referendum don't you think! Not sure why it needs a whole load of lawyers telling them the obvious.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MrM

[Gordon R]

Savhmr - detailed and excellent post.

 

chrisjh - I suspect I know more barristers than most and you couldn't get the same opinion out of two of them. 1000 barristers giving the same legal opinion - cloud cuckoo land. Face facts - Brexit is happening. Any party who went against the Referendum would be unelectable.

 

As for common sense - just who decided the Remainers had the monopoly of common sense?

[Vince Green]

Savhmr - detailed and excellent post.

 

chrisjh - I suspect I know more barristers than most and you couldn't get the same opinion out of two of them. 1000 barristers giving the same legal opinion - cloud cuckoo land. Face facts - Brexit is happening. Any party who went against the Referendum would be unelectable.

 

As for common sense - just who decided the Remainers had the monopoly of common sense?

Very little common sense in the remain campaign, mostly scare tactics.

[Savhmr]

Savhmr - detailed and excellent post.

 

chrisjh - I suspect I know more barristers than most and you couldn't get the same opinion out of two of them. 1000 barristers giving the same legal opinion - cloud cuckoo land. Face facts - Brexit is happening. Any party who went against the Referendum would be unelectable.

 

As for common sense - just who decided the Remainers had the monopoly of common sense?

 

Thanks Gordon.

 

More to the point on the barrister issue....who exactly is footing the bill for their time...or are they just doing this out of the kindness of their hearts and concern for the democratic process? Where was their collective voices during the campaigning warning each side not to be naughty and to tell the truth? Are these the same barristers who allowed Tony Bliar to lead us illegally into the Iraq war without saying a dicky bird? I smell a large well monied rat funding the beginnings of legal challenge to the referendum. Sweepstake anyone? Branson perhaps?

 

I'm sure that the government is capable of getting Article 50 through the house of Lords without help from 1000 "very concerned" Barristers. If the Lords reject it, then that is the end of true democracy in the UK and the Tory party will cease to exist as they'll not be voted in again. Public trust will vaporise. However, one cannot be sure where May's true allegiance lies. It is a very confusing picture she's painting but with a bent towards remain. Her chief aide was on record last week as saying that a second referendum is not out of the question. Now where would he get an idea like that from?

 

Do I trust May? Not on your life. She'd better hope for the sake of her career that if it is to be a long one, she encourages parliament to invoke Article 50 although part of me strongly suspects that she'll make a bluff of it only to wring her hands when the merest whiff of a legal challenge or the Lords votes against it saying that there's nothing she can do as her hands are tied. It isn't over yet.

 

Ironically, following the vote, it's now been revealed that more young people voted than first thought and that the majority of Leave voters weren't bigoted, racists, out of touch pensioners, but those in the 30-49 year old bracket, many from professional backgrounds.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Savhmr

[panoma1]

If the Lords reject it the government can invoke the parliament act to force it through!..... They did with the hunting act! So there is no get out excuse there!

 

Yes I read that about the number of young people who voted in the referendum was double that which was originally claimed by the "remain" camp.........just shows the depths of dishonesty they will plumb in order to convince people they were right!

[pinfireman]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isnt legal and needs a review by the "grown ups" i cant see Brexit happening this is going to be talked out and common sense will prevail

Absolute rubbish! What do barristers know about trade? About as much as you do re: democracy!

 

The trouble with Barristers is they're not elected. They make huge amounts twisting the original intentions of those that make the law. Any Political party will be extinct at the next general election if they backtrack.

Correct! A hard core 4 million UKIP members will lead the charge to do just that!

That's not quite how I read it, they said it would need an act of parliament, which is reasonable given that we are a parliamentary democracy. However, by what form of telepathy did 1000 Barristers suddenly all get the urge to write to David Cameron?

 

It was their trade assn., representing over 1000 Barristers, subtle difference.

Correct! It just needs their clients to take their business elsewhere, and this will all disappear!

Savhmr - detailed and excellent post.

 

chrisjh - I suspect I know more barristers than most and you couldn't get the same opinion out of two of them. 1000 barristers giving the same legal opinion - cloud cuckoo land. Face facts - Brexit is happening. Any party who went against the Referendum would be unelectable.

 

As for common sense - just who decided the Remainers had the monopoly of common sense?

The Remainers didn,t have that much sense................they lost!

[pinfireman]

We need to establish the identities of the "unknown" clients of Mishcon De Reya, who are mounting a legal attack on the result of the Referendum....on the excellent Guido Fawkes website, one of them has been identified as the multi-millionaire owner of Zoopla... once identified, we hit them , en masse, in their pockets, which is where they feel most pain! If it,s Branson, do not use his media, or his airline.....soon brings them to heel!

[Bazooka Joe]

Do I trust May? Not on your life. She'd better hope for the sake of her career that if it is to be a long one, she encourages parliament to invoke Article 50 although part of me strongly suspects that she'll make a bluff of it only to wring her hands when the merest whiff of a legal challenge or the Lords votes against it saying that there's nothing she can do as her hands are tied. It isn't over yet.

 

 

Just heard her say "Brexit means Brexit" on Sky News, no doubt time will tell, she'll certainly be held to account now that she's PM.

[Gordon R]

She can't say anything else. She has to deliver or face electoral disaster.

[Savhmr]

 

Just heard her say "Brexit means Brexit" on Sky News, no doubt time will tell, she'll certainly be held to account now that she's PM.

 

 

I sincerely hope that you're right there. I had to chortle though listening to the eloquent (and usually pretty bright) Reese-Mogg saying that Theresa May was "trustworthy" and "always did what she said she would"....like tackle illegal immigration and reduce overall immigration to 100,000 a year and tackle the police reforms she promised when appointed? Neither of those pledges were delivered although she did seem to succeed in thoroughly peeving off the ACPO instead of wrestling them on-side as one might have expected.

 

Different ball game now, I just hope that she's up to it and also publicly puts those funding the legal challenge into the spotlight and into their place. Big business should have no powers over a democracy or a democratic vote. It's that sort of thing we partly elected to leave the EU for as far too many shady deals done for the protection of big business interests.

[MrM]

She can't say anything else. She has to deliver or face electoral disaster.

Problem is who would she be up against? Labour are in even deeper meltdown now, with Eagle's local party trying to de-select her, and Arron Banks threatening to take over UKIP (the man who looks on Gibraltar as his personal piggy bank).

Edited July 11, 2016 by MrM

[Gordon R]

I don't think any party would get an overall majority and fringe parties would attract massive protest votes - at the expense of those who promised to honour Brexit, but dragged their feet.

 

Labour are unelectable with Corbyn, but even they could rise from the dead if they got a decent leader.

[Vince Green]

We need to establish the identities of the "unknown" clients of Mishcon De Reya, who are mounting a legal attack on the result of the Referendum....on the excellent Guido Fawkes website, one of them has been identified as the multi-millionaire owner of Zoopla... once identified, we hit them , en masse, in their pockets, which is where they feel most pain! If it,s Branson, do not use his media, or his airline.....soon brings them to heel!

Presumably all the Luxemberg registered multinationals who don't pay tax in this country will be wee-ed off with referendum result. That's a perfect example of why we were right to vote to leave.

[Savhmr]

I note that the Times today reported that following the Brexit vote, the German EU Parliament minister, Martin Shultz is now openly (along with Junckers) pushing for a full EU government with powers to over reach member countries' governments, essentially forming a super-state. This is the very thing that "remainers" either widely argued was not going to happen, or we could have a veto over it (not true as the EU would go ahead anyway) or simply were unconcerned. The Times is a little late with the story as it was reported on full a week ago in the Express: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/686177/EU-superstate-Brussels-bureaucrat-European-federal-government-Brexit and this followed the reports talked down as nothing but rumours and fantasy following the leaking of Shultz's proposals on Polish radio a few weeks ago.

 

Meanwhile Merkel has said that there will be no concessions given to the UK on freedom of movement yet Theresa May as late as this morning was still insisting on "controls to freedom of movement" being her goal (and not refusing freedom of movement). It would appear that the EU are perfectly willing to have the EU Parliament cut their collective trade throats with the UK over this matter. We'll see how long the Commission lasts in that event. Whatever, May, behind the scenes still appears to be manoeuvring with the Remain camp, this, despite the firm stance taken by Merkel, Junckers and Schultz that the UK is now out, and out means out. They want the UK to stay out so that they can trigger reform for full Federal integration which they well know Britain would veto if it remains within the EU. If this isn't a wake up call to all decent EU country leaders (I refuse to call them "member states" as they are still sovereign countries) then I don;t know what is. It is entirely possible that a meeting of EU member countries at the EU parliament could well vote off Junckers and Schultz if they press ahead with this, at least one would hope so. Hungary is not happy to go along with this and neither apparently is the Netherlands, so they won't get an all member agreement. It is a relief that we voted out!

[pinfireman]

There are strong movement in Denmark, Holland, France, Austria and Hungary to leave the EU.....good luck to them all!

 

As for the 1,000 barristers attempt to ruin Brexit, may I suggest you ALL send an email to The Law Society, demanding, under The Freedom of Information ACt, the names of said barristers....and informing the Law Society that none of these anti-democratic self-abusers will ever get work from you, your family friends, business etc.....Hit them where it really hurts....their wallets!

[Vince Green]

 

Labour are unelectable with Corbyn, but even they could rise from the dead if they got a decent leader.

the real tragedy,there isn't even a half decent candidate on the horizon for them to pray for. Labour has effectively run out of steam, and I can't see them ever becoming electable again

[oowee]

Kier Stamer would be my man.

How to shake off the roots and find the centre ground? I know let's lurch to the right make a mess of things and have a back lash to the centre.

[panoma1]

Kier Stamer would be my man.

How to shake off the roots and find the centre ground? I know let's lurch to the right make a mess of things and have a back lash to the centre.

Another Barrister turned politician! what makes you think he would be any different to the others that have appeared from nowhere and turned up on the political gravy train?....or maybe I do him a disservice and it's his commitment to public service? Lol

[poontang]

I know let's lurch to the right

 

Good idea.

[12gauge82]

Not saying we should lurch anywhere but one thing that strikes me about this referendum is that your average working Brit is sick of the rich and powerful making the rules and being forced to play a rigged game, politics and the country needs a shake up, since the financial crisis caused by greedy bankers and politicians Joe public have seen no rise in living standards, while some on benefits continue to get something for nothing and the bankers and politicians have got richer, if things aren't changed I can see anger amongst uk "working class" boiling over

[Granett]

Not saying we should lurch anywhere but one thing that strikes me about this referendum is that your average working Brit is sick of the rich and powerful making the rules and being forced to play a rigged game, politics and the country needs a shake up, since the financial crisis caused by greedy bankers and politicians Joe public have seen no rise in living standards, while some on benefits continue to get something for nothing and the bankers and politicians have got richer, if things aren't changed I can see anger amongst uk "working class" boiling over

Especially if they get all their "facts" from Murdoch and Dacre.

 

Although, even they can't hide the state of play:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3684282/Sombre-data-sends-UK-10-yr-government-bond-yield-new-low.html

 

"The yield of Britain's benchmark 10-year government bonds hit another record low on Monday as a batch of data painting a sombre outlook for the British economy sent investors scrambling for safe-haven assets such as gilts.

 

The yield on 10-year gilts fell to as low as 0.710 percent - almost half its level on June 23, when Britons voted to leave the European Union, confounding investors' expectations and raising concerns about Britain's economic resilience."