Brexit - Merged Threads

[Danger-Mouse]

 

And Obama's favour to Dave was saying that the UK would be at the back of the queue regards trade deals with the US when in fact 1/4 of everything they sell to the EU goes to the UK. Already the words of Mr. President are being overturned.

 

 

Back of the queue said Obama. Hmmm seems the truth is completely the opposite.

 

"BELEAGUERED European Union (EU) chiefs were hit with a double-whammy today as the US cooled its interest in a trans-Atlantic trade deal without Britain and a blundering bureaucrat risked stoking tensions with China. American officials openly expressed frustration with Brussels over “painfully slow” negotiations on a proposed tariff-free agreement, hinting that the Brexit vote made the whole charade far less worthwhile to Washington. . .

 

Today it emerged that the EU’s beleaguered Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) has been placed under threat by the Brexit vote, with a senior US official comparing a Europe without Britain to an America without California.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/690046/European-Union-America-US-cools-TTIP-deal-Donald-Tusk-insults-China-Brexit-trade

 

Yup. The entire TTIP deal is now looking very dodgy. The US are getting fed up of dealing with EU bureacracy and the Irish are talking about having a referendum about it. It`s quite possible we`ll sort out a deal before the EU does.

[UKPoacher]

French fishermen getting nervous...............

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-fishermen-may-caught-brexit-032410769.html?nhp=1

[Danger-Mouse]

French fishermen getting nervous...............

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-fishermen-may-caught-brexit-032410769.html?nhp=1

 

"If the British close their waters, we will lose important fishing grounds that account for 70 percent of our catch,"

 

Sounds like a nice boost to our economy and fishing industry.

[UKPoacher]

 

"If the British close their waters, we will lose important fishing grounds that account for 70 percent of our catch,"

 

Sounds like a nice boost to our economy and fishing industry.

 

The flip side is that the Scottish waters produce a lot of shellfish that is hauled through to France and Spain in refrigerated lorries. That is what the spokesman is referring to as his bargaining tool. So, if wee Jimmy Kranky wants to get uppety, David Davies could tell the EU to go and fish elsewhere, and as a by product ruin the Scottish fishing industry.

 

But of course that would be shellfish

[12gauge82]

I'd have thought if the eu won't buy our fish at a reasonable price we could sell it elsewhere in the world, fishing is another area I'm not entirely knowledgeable about but it seems the French have got a cheek, why should they have access to our waters, in my head that'd be like us demanding access to drill oil from Saudi, or we won't buy their oil? I'm sure they'd tell us to go whistle if we did

[Danger-Mouse]

I'd have thought if the eu won't buy our fish at a reasonable price we could sell it elsewhere in the world, fishing is another area I'm not entirely knowledgeable about but it seems the French have got a cheek, why should they have access to our waters, in my head that'd be like us demanding access to drill oil from Saudi, or we won't buy their oil? I'm sure they'd tell us to go whistle if we did

 

No I can`t say I know a great deal about our fishing industry either. What struck me was how close the French are allowed to come to our coast compared to how close we can go to theirs. All seems rather unfair.

 

Anyway, as Monty Python once said, now for something completely different . . .

 

 

Looks like the Yes Minister team might have predicted the future rather well.

[UKPoacher]

I'd have thought if the eu won't buy our fish at a reasonable price we could sell it elsewhere in the world, fishing is another area I'm not entirely knowledgeable about but it seems the French have got a cheek, why should they have access to our waters, in my head that'd be like us demanding access to drill oil from Saudi, or we won't buy their oil? I'm sure they'd tell us to go whistle if we did

 

Its a bit more complicated than that, but good for the UK. Spain sells a lot of fruit and veg to the UK. It arrives in Covent Garden and supermarket distribution centres in refrigerated lorries. Those same lorries then drive up to Scotland and collect shellfish to take back to Spain. So the trade between Spain and Scotland regards fish is subsidised by the Spain - UK fruit and veg trade. They rely on each other to reduce the transport costs. The French fishermen haven't got the leverage that they think they have.

[12gauge82]

Interesting stuff, cheers

[Gordon R]

As good news floods in, the "Remain" camp seem remarkably quiet. All that talk of disaster. Mmmmmmm.

[Vince Green]

The big problem as I understand it are the big Spanish trawlers that are floating fish factories and take huge amounts of fish from our waters. To me the whole subject is a Brexit bonus

Edited July 18, 2016 by Vince Green

[Savhmr]

As good news floods in, the "Remain" camp seem remarkably quiet. All that talk of disaster. Mmmmmmm.

 

Truth is, the responses from the USA, Canada and Australia were entirely expected and we simply don't know if it's good news or not yet.

 

To explain: Canada and Australia are only saying that post Brexit, they want to trade with the UK. Of course they do. They wont have bashed out any details of what that deal looks like yet though and it could mean a worse deal than the one already enjoyed with the EU, it could be good, but we just don't know.

 

The USA simply never wanted to sign the TTIP with the EU due to the arbitration clauses and possible compensation claims that it might be open to, so it's very convenient to use the UK as a bargaining chip to change the details of the deal. However, that works in our favour too as it sends out a message to the EU that far from an "insignificant little isolationist island", we are one of the most important contributing nations to the EU and our "special relationship" with the States will influence any transatlantic deal. It also means that we're not open to the same risks of TTIP (as we'd have to abide by the deal with the EU even if we're out of it)....for now.

 

The UK fishing issues are complex but had the UK fishing fleets not got greedy and sold all their quotas off to the Spanish in the first place for a one off windfall, then there wouldn't be the same number of Spanish fishing fleets scouring the seabed and exhausting fish stocks today. In balance, had the CFP never been finalised by Soames and Gummer, our fishing fleets wouldn't have been steered towards destruction in the first place. The fishing is an area more of environmental concern as the income derived was only a small fraction of UK GDP in any event, although important to the fishing communities up and down the land.

 

The positive news is that the new Cabinet are now able to start building their teams to begin shaping up what these new trade deals will look like, but realistically that's 6 months to a year off yet and we (and the markets) won't know the outcomes until well after Article 50 is signed. There will have to be more quantitative easing between now and then to shore the markets up. The Bank of England has already poured in something like 19 years membership cost of the EU into quantitative easing so far for perspective. It's all that's holding the FTSE 100 where it is at present and without it, the economy would be heading South. The imperative if for May and her team to get organised and start the process of negotiations outside the EU. They don't have a team yet capable of that, just a cabinet of leaders looking to build their teams, so they will need time. Don't expect anything to happen any time soon. It's business as usual. The heartening thing out of all of this is that it has put a window onto how frail the EU and its economy actually is, and how disparate the leadership is within the EU parliaments as there is a gulf starting to open between member state leadership and the EU Commission. My guess is that they'll have to get rid of Junckers and Schultz to survive or reform.

[UKPoacher]

I agree that Junckers will have to go, and probably Tusk too. The EU will have to take the blame for what governments call 'populist' uprisings.

[pinfireman]

 

Truth is, the responses from the USA, Canada and Australia were entirely expected and we simply don't know if it's good news or not yet.

 

To explain: Canada and Australia are only saying that post Brexit, they want to trade with the UK. Of course they do. They wont have bashed out any details of what that deal looks like yet though and it could mean a worse deal than the one already enjoyed with the EU, it could be good, but we just don't know.

 

The USA simply never wanted to sign the TTIP with the EU due to the arbitration clauses and possible compensation claims that it might be open to, so it's very convenient to use the UK as a bargaining chip to change the details of the deal. However, that works in our favour too as it sends out a message to the EU that far from an "insignificant little isolationist island", we are one of the most important contributing nations to the EU and our "special relationship" with the States will influence any transatlantic deal. It also means that we're not open to the same risks of TTIP (as we'd have to abide by the deal with the EU even if we're out of it)....for now.

 

The UK fishing issues are complex but had the UK fishing fleets not got greedy and sold all their quotas off to the Spanish in the first place for a one off windfall, then there wouldn't be the same number of Spanish fishing fleets scouring the seabed and exhausting fish stocks today. In balance, had the CFP never been finalised by Soames and Gummer, our fishing fleets wouldn't have been steered towards destruction in the first place. The fishing is an area more of environmental concern as the income derived was only a small fraction of UK GDP in any event, although important to the fishing communities up and down the land.

 

The positive news is that the new Cabinet are now able to start building their teams to begin shaping up what these new trade deals will look like, but realistically that's 6 months to a year off yet and we (and the markets) won't know the outcomes until well after Article 50 is signed. There will have to be more quantitative easing between now and then to shore the markets up. The Bank of England has already poured in something like 19 years membership cost of the EU into quantitative easing so far for perspective. It's all that's holding the FTSE 100 where it is at present and without it, the economy would be heading South. The imperative if for May and her team to get organised and start the process of negotiations outside the EU. They don't have a team yet capable of that, just a cabinet of leaders looking to build their teams, so they will need time. Don't expect anything to happen any time soon. It's business as usual. The heartening thing out of all of this is that it has put a window onto how frail the EU and its economy actually is, and how disparate the leadership is within the EU parliaments as there is a gulf starting to open between member state leadership and the EU Commission. My guess is that they'll have to get rid of Junckers and Schultz to survive or reform.

It wasn,t just a question of our people getting greedy and selling their quotas! The EU paid them to "burn their boats"....intimating that to bring them up to EU spec would be very expensive.....whilst secretly giving huge subsidies to the Spanish to build bigger and more economical boats and factory ships. Strange, they couldn,t give those subsidies to our fishermen? A TV documentary secretly filmed Spanish boats unloading illegal catches one night, and were warned to stay away from the docks by Spanish police...I,m currently "trawling" the "net" to give you a more accurate version of this (no puns intended!)

[pinfireman]

Labour leadership candidate Owen Smith says he will force another referendum (to get the "right" result) if elected Leader....Where do Labour get these idiots from?

[Gordon R]

Owen Smith, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg, Jeremy Corbyn, Michael Gove - there must be some kind of school for the truly thick wannabe politicians - of all parties. It just seems that Labour have the temporary monopoly.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Labour leadership candidate Owen Smith says he will force another referendum (to get the "right" result) if elected Leader....Where do Labour get these idiots from?

 

 

Owen Smith, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg, Jeremy Corbyn, Michael Gove - there must be some kind of school for the truly thick wannabe politicians - of all parties. It just seems that Labour have the temporary monopoly.

 

There is a special place where they are reared, away from the REAL Life that the rest of us live!

[Bazooka Joe]

Labour leadership candidate Owen Smith says he will force another referendum (to get the "right" result) if elected Leader....Where do Labour get these idiots from?

 

Listened to him on the Andrew Marr Show Sunday, no problem waiting for 18mth before triggering Article 50, then have another referendum because people can change their minds knowing they have made the wrong decision.

 

The same from Wee Cranky, she still thinks Scotland voted as a Nation & not part of the Union.

 

TM's visit to see her just after she became PM to me is a bit worrying, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/theresa-may-flies-to-edinburgh-to-tell-scots-that-she-believes-w/

Edited July 18, 2016 by Bazooka Joe

[Gordon R]

Sturgeon has been slapped down by May for misrepresenting what was said. Scotland have no power of veto and are not in "a very, very strong position".

 

I find it hard to understand how anyone supports her. She is a like a third rate local politician, totally out of her depth at national or international level.

[oowee]

Sturgeon has been slapped down by May for misrepresenting what was said. Scotland have no power of veto and are not in "a very, very strong position".

 

I find it hard to understand how anyone supports her. She is a like a third rate local politician, totally out of her depth at national or international level.

[Scully]

According to the BBC website, May has said that as far as she is concerned, the Scots have had their referendum.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Scully

[Gordon R]

 

 

[Savhmr]

It wasn,t just a question of our people getting greedy and selling their quotas! The EU paid them to "burn their boats"....intimating that to bring them up to EU spec would be very expensive.....whilst secretly giving huge subsidies to the Spanish to build bigger and more economical boats and factory ships. Strange, they couldn,t give those subsidies to our fishermen? A TV documentary secretly filmed Spanish boats unloading illegal catches one night, and were warned to stay away from the docks by Spanish police...I,m currently "trawling" the "net" to give you a more accurate version of this (no puns intended!)

 

I don't disagree at all but they could have kept their quotas instead of selling them. They could have continued operating albeit they wouldn't have competed with the Spanish fleets and yes, the Spanish were subsidised which is yet another example of the EU dishing out industries to it's own behind closed doors. The point is that Gummer and Soames, between then, drove the final nails into the coffin of the UK fishing industry. I do hope that we reclaim our waters as much to preserve them as anything. The UK fleets pre CFP were over-fishing certain areas anyway and there wasn't sufficient thought to preserving fish stocks until the evidence provided by the first UK protected fisheries conservation areas. The UK fishing industry didn't do itself any favours at all and hindsight is a powerful too which shows that had it modernised earlier on, and had the UK government done more to protect fish stocks, it would have been in a healthier place now, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. The UK fleets would have needed subsidies to continue as you intimate but they were never on the cards.

[Vince Green]

About 5 years ago we were in Barcelona wandering round the fish market. We were with another couple and he was a keen sea angler to the extent he wrote articles for sea angling magazines so I would describe him as reasonably knowledgeable. He was going round saying "they are illegal" "they are undersize" etc all the time

[pinfireman]

 

I don't disagree at all but they could have kept their quotas instead of selling them. They could have continued operating albeit they wouldn't have competed with the Spanish fleets and yes, the Spanish were subsidised which is yet another example of the EU dishing out industries to it's own behind closed doors. The point is that Gummer and Soames, between then, drove the final nails into the coffin of the UK fishing industry. I do hope that we reclaim our waters as much to preserve them as anything. The UK fleets pre CFP were over-fishing certain areas anyway and there wasn't sufficient thought to preserving fish stocks until the evidence provided by the first UK protected fisheries conservation areas. The UK fishing industry didn't do itself any favours at all and hindsight is a powerful too which shows that had it modernised earlier on, and had the UK government done more to protect fish stocks, it would have been in a healthier place now, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. The UK fleets would have needed subsidies to continue as you intimate but they were never on the cards.

And so we ended overfishing......and allowed Spanish fishermen, with their bigger, more modern boats, to carry on overfishing! Our waters were being overfished, by our fishermen, Danish fishermen, Dutch fishermen, French fishermen, and Spanish fishermen ! So the EU decided to pay our guys off, and as they were getting smaller and smaller catches, with boats that badly needed replacing, they took the only financially sensible option. As a maritime nation, that was a national scandal ! It,s from the fishermen, and merchant seamen that the Royal Navy draws upon in time of war.....After Article 50 is invoked, our first step is to take back our waters!

About 5 years ago we were in Barcelona wandering round the fish market. We were with another couple and he was a keen sea angler to the extent he wrote articles for sea angling magazines so I would describe him as reasonably knowledgeable. He was going round saying "they are illegal" "they are undersize" etc all the time

 

 

This is what the tv news crew were reporting on......the EU smothered it!

[MrM]

Looks like the Mischon De Reya court case to force Parliamentary authorisation of Article 50 is going ahead in October!

Edited July 19, 2016 by MrM