Side by side day

[bakerboy]

 

Actually that wasn't super clear -- the 63mm chamber seems to mean I can't shoot cartridges that are longer than 63mm-5mm since the cartridge 'opens'.

 

Seems 21g and 24g cartridges are perfectly fine (my HV 24g fiber are 52mm when closed).

But then again my SuperFast 27g also appear to fit at 56mm, closed.

 

So, am I right on the maximum size of 58mm? I referred to the "Shotgunning" book that mentions these sizes (abeit, in old money imperial)

The Chamber length is the length of the cartridge after it has been shot.

 

The Crimping must be allowed to fully open on firing.

 

One needs to be as careful with the length of the cartridge as with all other aspects of Gun Safety.

[bakerboy]

Ah, well I was not planning to shoot 27/28g cartridges with these anyway, they don't deserve the treatment after all these years! 24g is largely adequate for anything I'm likely to shoot at.

 

When you say 'jam' you mean, 'explode'? I'm just asking to know how paranoid I have to be if I let anyone approach these guns.

 

And secondary (very likely stupid) question -- game loads are usually a LOT bigger than 28g from what I understand, therefore I assumed the cartridges would be longer, do does that mean these guns can't be used for game, or would it be OK to shoot 24g at a pheasant? Feel free to snigger at the newbie, I am one ;-)

24g for a Pheasant would not really be man enough.

 

Cartridges can be purchased in many differing chamber lengths and weight of shot.

SxS are in the main Game guns.

 

Choose your cartridges carefully, and if you are Game Shooting make sure you choose the correct cartridge not only for the gun but also to show respect for the quarry you intend to shoot.

 

If you are a member of BASC they have lots of information available..

[dodeer]

Just use a 65mm 26/28/30/32 for game. They will be fine in that gun

[buze]

Just use a 65mm 26/28/30/32 for game. They will be fine in that gun

 

Thanks for that! Wow a oneliner with enough information to answer my various questions ;-)

[DanWalker]

Hull Imperial Game in 28g or 30g will be enough cartridge for just about anything and have fairly soft recoil. They work very well in my various 2.5in chamber guns at any rate. Most suppliers do a 'traditional game load' of 28g in a 65mm cartridge so you can't go too far wrong.

[fortune]

24g for a Pheasant would not really be man enough.

 

 

Where did you dig that little gem up from?

Perhaps you'd better enlighten all of the ammunition manufacturers of this information that offer game loads with this or smaller charge weights in the short chambers and smaller bores.

[JohnfromUK]

Hull Imperial Game in 28g or 30g will be enough cartridge for just about anything and have fairly soft recoil. They work very well in my various 2.5in chamber guns at any rate. Most suppliers do a 'traditional game load' of 28g in a 65mm cartridge so you can't go too far wrong.

I agree - I use Hull Imperial 26 gramme - and for all 'normal' game ranges its a great load in older lighter guns. To those saying 24 gramme won't be enough, - have a word with 20 bore users; for the vast majority of shooting there is little real difference between the 12 and 20 in practical terms.

If you are going to shoot in places where consistently really high birds are the order of the day (i.e. some Devon shoots etc.), then you may need both a heavier gun and cartridge (I have no experience there, but that would seem to be the general view)

Where did you dig that little gem up from?

Perhaps you'd better enlighten all of the ammunition manufacturers of this information that offer game loads with this or smaller charge weights in the short chambers and smaller bores.

+1 - see above Edited September 6, 2016 by JohnfromUK

[matone]

I agree - I use Hull Imperial 26 gramme - and for all 'normal' game ranges its a great load in older lighter guns. To those saying 24 gramme won't be enough, - have a word with 20 bore users; for the vast majority of shooting there is little real difference between the 12 and 20 in practical terms.

If you are going to shoot in places where consistently really high birds are the order of the day (i.e. some Devon shoots etc.), then you may need both a heavier gun and cartridge (I have no experience there, but that would seem to be the general view)

+1 - see above

Wish we had a `like` button here ! +2.

[kevin55]

Ah, well I was not planning to shoot 27/28g cartridges with these anyway, they don't deserve the treatment after all these years! 24g is largely adequate for anything I'm likely to shoot at.

 

When you say 'jam' you mean, 'explode'? I'm just asking to know how paranoid I have to be if I let anyone approach these guns.

 

And secondary (very likely stupid) question -- game loads are usually a LOT bigger than 28g from what I understand, therefore I assumed the cartridges would be longer, do does that mean these guns can't be used for game, or would it be OK to shoot 24g at a pheasant? Feel free to snigger at the newbie, I am one ;-)

 

 

The gun wouldn't open as the cartridges -67mm - were locked solid

 

I use 28g 6, 2 1/2 for pheasants and taking a tip from JohnfromUK on here I'm seeking out 26gm Hulls

 

For clays I'm tending to stick with 2 1/2 for everything (I have guns with 2 1/2, 2 3/4 and 3" chambers) 21-28gm so I don't ever put a shell in that is too big for the gun, and mostly I stick to fibre wad

 

When I let someone try 1 of my old guns I give them some of my cartridges

K

Edited September 6, 2016 by kevin55

[figgy]

 

 

The gun wouldn't open as the cartridges -67mm - were locked solid

 

I use 28g 6, 2 1/2 for pheasants and taking a tip from JohnfromUK on here I'm seeking out 26gm Hulls

 

For clays I'm tending to stick with 2 1/2 for everything (I have guns with 2 1/2, 2 3/4 and 3" chambers) 21-28gm so I don't ever put a shell in that is too big for the gun, and mostly I stick to fibre wad

 

When I let someone try 1 of my old guns I give them some of my cartridges

K

Can i borrow your gun Kev

[JohnfromUK]

 

 

The gun wouldn't open as the cartridges -67mm - were locked solid

 

I use 28g 6, 2 1/2 for pheasants and taking a tip from JohnfromUK on here I'm seeking out 26gm Hulls

 

For clays I'm tending to stick with 2 1/2 for everything (I have guns with 2 1/2, 2 3/4 and 3" chambers) 21-28gm so I don't ever put a shell in that is too big for the gun, and mostly I stick to fibre wad

 

When I let someone try 1 of my old guns I give them some of my cartridges

K

I have looked at the 26 gramme Imperials and they re clearly marked 65mm. I have used them in several old English runs including pre WW1 guns. I also use Hull Comp X 21 gramme for clays and have used these in older hammer guns. I have had no troubles, but I have in the past used 67mm cartridges (various makes) - and personally have never had a problem with them either.

 

I am told that 67 mm is safe, but that 70mm is not. I believe most chambers are actually 2 5/8", but of course the tapers of the cones do vary a lot.

 

Like you - when someone tries my old guns, I ALWAYS supply the correct cartridges.

[bakerboy]

Where did you dig that little gem up from?

Perhaps you'd better enlighten all of the ammunition manufacturers of this information that offer game loads with this or smaller charge weights in the short chambers and smaller bores.

Each to their own, and I am always happy to be proved wrong and accept I am wrong.

For myself I would not use a 24g for Pheasant.

[Westley]

24g for a Pheasant would not really be man enough.

 

Cartridges can be purchased in many differing chamber lengths and weight of shot.

SxS are in the main Game guns.

 

Choose your cartridges carefully, and if you are Game Shooting make sure you choose the correct cartridge not only for the gun but also to show respect for the quarry you intend to shoot.

 

If you are a member of BASC they have lots of information available..

 

Tell that to the .410 Guy's !

[figgy]

I have taken some long and high Pheasants with 25g no6 Lyalvale Express game cartridges, it all depends how your gun patterns. mine was very tight chokes and favoured lighter loads for great patterns.

 

My 28Bore i shoot 24 & 25 gram carts mainly and never think it wont kill at range,when you see the good breaks on clays at distance that you wouldn't shoot game you know they can do whats required

[fortune]

Each to their own, and I am always happy to be proved wrong and accept I am wrong.

For myself I would not use a 24g for Pheasant.

It's not a matter of whether you are right or wrong it is in the statement that you wrote >>> 24g for a Pheasant would not really be man enough. This is not correct because a pellet of a given mass and speed has the same range and impact value no matter what gun it is fired from. Ok the heavier the load = more pellets in the air but if the target is centered and pellets connect then the effect will be the same. If I remember correctly Eley used to recommend that a pheasant took four pellets and striking energy from 1 to 1.5 ft.lb. to kill a pheasant. You just got to put the lead on the target. If you can't do this don't shoot at live game.

[bakerboy]

You are right

[fortune]

Hallelujah brother, come on Barbie let's go party. I'll bring my 28 bore.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by fortune

[buze]

Awesome, everyone is agreeing! We're such a nice bunch aren't we?

 

/me dislocates his shoulder trying to pat himself on the back

[buze]

Allright, the Maleham has come back from servicing; it's all nice and smooth! Lovely little piece, I'm delighted! I'll take some pics over the next few days, I'm going to shoot it this week-end at Mid Wales!

[fortune]

Looking forward to more pictures. have a great time at the mid Wales. We loved it when we came up the other year. If We lived up that way we'd be in there all of the time. we came out with big grins on our faces.

[demonwolf444]

Each to their own, and I am always happy to be proved wrong and accept I am wrong.

For myself I would not use a 24g for Pheasant.

 

I regularly use hulls imperial game 24 gram load in 6; i have a decently choked English game gun that weighs very little it kills stone dead at normal ranges with ease; the reason it works so well for me is that i maintain better control of such a light gun through the recoil, meaning when i do miss i can more quickly use the second barrel. It surprised me as i had used cheap 28 gram cartridges and shot poorly with them but these light imperial games seem to pack a heavy weight punch.

[figgy]

I've used some 21g carts and been surprised at how well they kill at distance. Also the reverse with some horrible 32 gram carts I won in a raffle very poker kills to the point I won't use them on live qaurry and use them to break in semi autos on clays.

[buze]

I did a 'proper' shoot with the Maleham yesterday -- shot about 100 clays with it at A.C Sporting; on both the 'easier' Compak. Well it was heaps of fun, but heck, I did miss a LOT! Strangely I could pretty much get fast crossers, but I had problems with 'perceived lead' -- I think the width of the barrels is throwing my compass off course, and I kept shooting behind most things.

 

So, I need to practice a bit with it in a slightly more controlled environment; I'll shoot it next week end on the skeet range at Mid Wales, to learn where the hell I am supposed to point the thing at!

 

Anyway, I had a great time shooting 21g Hull's. I was also shooting gun down, the gun comes to the shoulder pretty nicely too. Quite a bit of muzle flip, I think I need to practice 'grabbing' the barrels instead of letting the gun 'sit' on my hand as I do with my OU.

 

Gun performed flawlessly, and looked awesome all the while :-)

[MrPhantom]

I find when I take my sbs on an outing on the clays that, although it is very quick to shoulder, it takes a lot more conscious effort on my part to keep swinging through the target. Understandable I guess as it is 2lbs lighter than my O/U and only has 25" barrels. Great fun though.

[wymberley]

I did a 'proper' shoot with the Maleham yesterday -- shot about 100 clays with it at A.C Sporting; on both the 'easier' Compak. Well it was heaps of fun, but heck, I did miss a LOT! Strangely I could pretty much get fast crossers, but I had problems with 'perceived lead' -- I think the width of the barrels is throwing my compass off course, and I kept shooting behind most things.

 

So, I need to practice a bit with it in a slightly more controlled environment; I'll shoot it next week end on the skeet range at Mid Wales, to learn where the hell I am supposed to point the thing at!

 

Anyway, I had a great time shooting 21g Hull's. I was also shooting gun down, the gun comes to the shoulder pretty nicely too. Quite a bit of muzle flip, I think I need to practice 'grabbing' the barrels instead of letting the gun 'sit' on my hand as I do with my OU.

 

Gun performed flawlessly, and looked awesome all the while :-)

If you're going to "grab the barrels" make sure you grab them closer to the action for overhead shots than you do for the more horizontal variety as you might find yourself pulling them 'off line'.