CannonCBR1000 Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 My son and i are in the process of applying for a SGC and as far as we can tell every thing was ok with the application, the FEO was out yesterday because over the last couple of years my son has been getting bother from some one who has been stabbing his Tyre's and scratching his car, he was also stalking him hanging about around where we live( middle of the countryside) and giving my son abuse, the guy also accused myself of smashing his window on his car and i have since gone to court and the case was abandoned because the so called witnesses never turned up to court, the dilemma is we have a clay pigeon ground about 500yards from our house and have wanted for a while to join and go shooting but due to this guy we will be refused our certificates we have been advised to withdraw our application and if there is no problems over the next year we MAY get them, if we wait a year, we have no criminal records or any speeding convictions i am 49 my son is 23 we have done nothing wrong. Even the FEO has said this is not fair but his Sargent has said we may be a danger to the public ( this guy) how stupid, I have my own home (a farm) my son is a HGV mechanic but we are being penalised because of this guy, we have been told if we apply it will be refused and if we appeal it will more than likley be refuse, and a refusal will look bad for us. does any one know where we stand here? or is there anything we can do? or do we just leave it for a year? any help would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Id be joining BASC and getting some advice on this. Also, join the club or attend the clay ground and get some experience in,you dont need a SGC to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Id be joining BASC and getting some advice on this. Also, join the club or attend the clay ground and get some experience in,you dont need a SGC to shoot. hello, PLUS 1 and good luck to you both Edited August 27, 2016 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Surely they cannot stop you - you have been found guilty of nothing and the fact that this other *** hasn't received a slap proves that you are tolerant? Get legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 That is so unfair , just trying not to swear , like others have said ,take it further . I dont think it is upto the sergeant to make the final decision in the case of granting you a SGC if i may ask were are you based please . If you were local to me you would be welcome to join me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonCBR1000 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 We have been doing the clay shooting at Auchterhouse country sports we stay right at the back of the place for a few of months now and its better than golf, we have been advised to join the BASC and see if they can help, like you say we have done nothing wrong, the Sargent is the first point of contact and have been told if the application comes in front of him he will refuse us on the ground we would be a danger to the public(this guy) if we appeal then it goes higher which means it goes to Inverness and they then make the call on the appeal and it would be likely it will get refused here as well. At the shooting ground they would be charging us £40 for 25 shots because its lessons. once a week for a year adds up to over £4000 for both of us, we even asked if we could keep the gun at the ground and have the certificate endorsed to say we cannot remove the gun from there ground but that was a NO as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 We have been doing the clay shooting at Auchterhouse country sports we stay right at the back of the place for a few of months now and its better than golf, we have been advised to join the BASC and see if they can help, like you say we have done nothing wrong, the Sargent is the first point of contact and have been told if the application comes in front of him he will refuse us on the ground we would be a danger to the public(this guy) if we appeal then it goes higher which means it goes to Inverness and they then make the call on the appeal and it would be likely it will get refused here as well. At the shooting ground they would be charging us £40 for 25 shots because its lessons. once a week for a year adds up to over £4000 for both of us, we even asked if we could keep the gun at the ground and have the certificate endorsed to say we cannot remove the gun from there ground but that was a NO as well. If Auchterhouse wont give some sort of concession once you are a member,then its probably best to explore other options,if there is a gunshop local,talk to them about what clay grounds are in the locale (Some clay grounds do not advertise or have websites) a quick google found some within 20 miles of you. Once established in a club,your 'reason' for wanting to possess a shotgun becomes clearer as far as the police are concerned ( and before anyone says you dont need a reason for SGC, I am aware of that,but in this case it would help to have one) also you say you have a farm ? Surely that is a reason,plus talk to other farmers in the area,see if they can put a word in that you would be helping them with pest control? BASC will definitely give you better advice as far as the police attitude,which sounds a little suspect,as long as you have not left out something in your story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 no this is not fair, you have done nothing join basc and see what they have to say, and they may be able to help you see it though,good luck,the bad men all ways win, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 It might not be fair, and you might not have done anything wrong, but ... the police have a duty to ensure public safety. After various incidents where people with violent pasts (who had never been convicted, because witnesses / partners had failed to testify, or had withdrawn their testimony), police forces are far more likely to take into account reports of problems, and failed prosecutions. I'll put it another way : CPS obviously thought a prosecution was likely to succeed AND in the public interest in the case you went to court for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 If you`re a member of BaSC I`d seek their advice. If you`re not then I`d cancel this application, join BaSC, wait 3 months and then re-apply. In the meantime look around and see if you can find another ground to shoot at. Maybe see if anyone from here would be willing to meet up somewhere and shoot with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 There is more to this. To go court you were arrested for a public order or criminal damage offence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) There is more to this. To go court you were arrested for a public order or criminal damage offence? And ?? Edited August 27, 2016 by johnphilip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 don't give up I don't think basc could help if you joined that is but I might be wrong its worth a call though good luck anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 And ?? For a case to go to court : The situation must have been serious enough for the police to get involved. The police have then decided that it is serious enough to pass the matter on to the CPS. The CPS have then reviewed the case, and decided that there is a realistic chance of conviction AND that the case is in the public interest. When the case has come to court, the other party has not turned up to give evidence, thus leading to proceedings being abandoned. Now, I'm not saying the reasons as to why that happened, but it's been known in the past for witnesses / plaintiffs to be intimidated into withdrawing statements or refusing to take the stand. I'm pretty certain there is a lot more to this case than meets the eye. The police are not satisfied that these people can hold SGC/FAC without posing risk to the public. They have reasons for that viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonCBR1000 Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 For a case to go to court all you need is 2 witnesses to say something very similar, i was also phone called to appear at to police station where the 2 officers said not to worry this is BULL### don't worry it wont come to anything, i have never been in trouble before so not to sure of the process, you obviously know more about it than the average person , the case was a vandalism case that was meant to have happened 7 months before it was reported to the police, this GUY has a problem with my son and because my wife and I are dropping my son off at his girlfriends house and his car is here in the garage and the GUY cant attack my sons car ( scratching every panel and Stabbing tyres Skoda Fabia VRS 2011) it used to be a nice car. This guy also got his cousin to assault my son and smash the windscreen on the VRS this is all 2-3 years ago like you say witness intimidation NOT!, the guy and his cousin are up in court so because my son is going to court as a witness against him for the cousin assaulting my son, the guys cousin wanted us to drop the case, this never happened so the guy thought it would be good intimidate me and to accuse me of smashing his rear windscreen, the said vandalism was April 2015 and he reported this in October 2015 with his mate, even the FEO said the situation was BULL#### but his Sargent thinks we want the SGC to go hunt this guy down !!! I don't think so!! if we were going to do anything would we not have done it by now the whole thing stinks, we called the police every time the guy was hanging around the area giving my son verbal abuse, my son ignored him which made the guy worse Remember we stay 3-4 miles out of town this guy has to come all the way out this way to cause my son bother , the guy has an injunction against him to keep away from my son, my home street and his girlfriend's house basically a stalking case, but we are the dangerous ones! this guy confronted my son 3 years ago and said he wanted my son to assault him so he could get my son charged with assault and my son go to prison and this idiot would get my sons girlfriend (this is how the guy thinks), Funny when you hear the whole story, we have tried to stick to the rules with the police every time we have a problem report it not a good idea, the FEO said if we wait a year we might get a SGC MIGHT get one!! that's if we don't report this guy for any trouble or anyone else if we call the police it wont look good for us is what the FEO is saying, again we have done nothing wrong and you get one guy on here who thinks the CPS (procurator Fiscal) are god they know it all, not the case do you think i would be telling you all this if we were in the wrong no! funny how the 2 idiots never turned up to court or even filled in the citations to appear in court and the CPS (fiscal still went ahead and wasted tax payers money???)they obviously had no intentions of going to court, i on the other hand had to pay for a Solicitor at £600 to my cost just to appear in court for them not to bother funny that. all looks a bit fishy now, what do you think? still think we want to hunt this guy down maybe there is something wrong with us that we don't? maybe we are to forgiving or are really just not bothered the guys just not worth the effort(waste of space)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Speak with the basc. Personally if what you say is 100% fact and there is nothing else on it then I'd see them in court and get my sgc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 I can't read through what you've written on my phone, but, it's obviously a mess. I wouldn't be the person to sign off your application until this was all finished with. Remember, your application is taken into account with your surrounding circumstances. Join and speak to a shooting organisation as has been suggested, but they won't pick the bill up at this stage. Good luck. Speak with the basc. Personally if what you say is 100% fact and there is nothing else on it then I'd see them in court and get my sgc. If you can afford it financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Yet another thread with half - at best - of a tale. I found it hard work reading through a rambling (that is being polite) summary. I can't accept that a Sergeant is the only person blocking the applications. Based on what has been posted, I would not put my name to granting SGCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 From what you have said,it appears you have done nothing wrong whatsoever. You appear to be the victims unfortunately,and Im sure you feel that there is no reason to deny you a SGC. But,you have to see this from the police perspective,there has been aggro between your family and another party,you have been found blameless so far. However the aggro still exists between you and the other party,so what police firearms manager is going to place a (legally held) shotgun into this mix ? Your intentions I am sure are honourable ,but,as has been said the job of firearms licensing is to ensure public safety.If they think there is any risk of escalation in your case,it would be a lot more than their jobs are worth. No its not fair. Take the advice given,join BASC,go on some shoots,get involved with the shooting community as much as you can,enjoy shooting and other field sports ,and give it some time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Please let us know how you get along. It all sounds fishy to me and I presume the police are similarly suspicious of the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 How did your son and this fella and his cousin become entangled in the first place ? Two sides to every story and I doubt they just picked him out of the blue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 How did your son and this fella and his cousin become entangled in the first place ? Two sides to every story and I doubt they just picked him out of the blue! Think there is something about a female, that he talked about, and his son is seeing her, and its her ex that is causing the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonCBR1000 Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Just to keep you up to date with the progress of our applications, we have since joined BASC and resubmitted our applications as we were told by the FEO to withdraw them, we spoke to BASC and i also got a phone call from the head office for air weapons in Glasgow and he told us it was harder to get an air weapon licence as this comes under FAC rules, Both advised us we should never have withdrawn our application, but today myself and my son both have our air weapon and shotgun certificates, when the FEO came out the second time he said yes all looks good should not be a problem getting your cert's but 2 months before there was no way we would get them, funny how things change when you join the BASC so i would recommend joining BASC before applying for your certificates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Just to keep you up to date with the progress of our applications, we have since joined BASC and resubmitted our applications as we were told by the FEO to withdraw them, we spoke to BASC and i also got a phone call from the head office for air weapons in Glasgow and he told us it was harder to get an air weapon licence as this comes under FAC rules, Both advised us we should never have withdrawn our application, but today myself and my son both have our air weapon and shotgun certificates, when the FEO came out the second time he said yes all looks good should not be a problem getting your cert's but 2 months before there was no way we would get them, funny how things change when you join the BASC so i would recommend joining BASC before applying for your certificates. Good outcome,well done for not giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 great outcome some times basc can do wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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