oowee Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just completed the above course with Ivythorn Sporting over in Street Somerset, which I need to apply for my C/F ticket with Avon and Somerset. What an interesting and informative time and money very well spent. Started with two sides of A4 questions to test my knowledge. Lots of time talking about different caliber's, the effective range and use of different bullets, moderators and their effect on managing gasses. All followed up with a trip out to the range to look at my shooting, safety and shot choices. All in all, a really useful day out I cant recommend it enough for those looking to get into the sport and with a thirst to soak up as much knowledge as quickly as possible. I would be interested on some further general background reading on rifles and ammunition and also on deer management and stalking. Any suggestions gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 learn to shoot straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Do a DSC1 - very informative and interesting. I can highly recommend Gap180 Edited October 23, 2016 by spandit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 learn to shoot straight Cheeky *** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 i will drop you over some reading info this week. when you have finished with the porn i will let you have the stuff on deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Do a DSC1 - very informative and interesting. I can highly recommend Gap180 I'm sure some are 😗 Make sure you research the one your going on before you part with your money 💰 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 What sort of questions are there and what was involved in the course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 "Which I need to apply for my C/F ticket with Avon & Somerset" As far as I'm aware completely factually incorrect. If you have reason to own a centrefire and are a 'reputable character' or whatever they call it you should be able to have one. How much was the course ? I wouldn't have been happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Agree Lloydy. Totally not within the law and a made up set of rules by Avon & Somerset. You have written permission to shoot on permissible land, you are of good character, that is all that is required to obtain an FAC or SGC. I'm not saying you wasted your money but it should have been your choice. The suggestion you should check out the checkers is not a bad idea. I have knowledge of one instance where a person was kicked off and estate because he couldn't tie his shoe laces and was totally useless, then the Head Stalker of many many years was forced to take a further competence course to satisfy insurance requirements and found this idiot was the examiner. Shame on Avon & Somerset ... hope David ..BASC is reading this because they should be on this like a ton of bricks ..... but there again aren't they and BDS etc making money out of these courses as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) "Which I need to apply for my C/F ticket with Avon & Somerset" As far as I'm aware completely factually incorrect. If you have reason to own a centrefire and are a 'reputable character' or whatever they call it you should be able to have one. How much was the course ? I wouldn't have been happy with that. Yes I share the thought and view but .......... I am told they expect a demonstration of experience, at application. Its a bit like a cabinet for a shotgun. Not a requirement but an easy fix. Whilst i am having mentoring, for me this was a good way to get a wider experience. Questions were about bullet energy, range, different types of bullets, choosing where to take a safe shot. Basics of rifles, what is legal to shoot with what and when. £100 for the course Edited October 23, 2016 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Agree Lloydy. Totally not within the law and a made up set of rules by Avon & Somerset. You have written permission to shoot on permissible land, you are of good character, that is all that is required to obtain an FAC or SGC. I'm not saying you wasted your money but it should have been your choice. The suggestion you should check out the checkers is not a bad idea. I have knowledge of one instance where a person was kicked off and estate because he couldn't tie his shoe laces and was totally useless, then the Head Stalker of many many years was forced to take a further competence course to satisfy insurance requirements and found this idiot was the examiner. Shame on Avon & Somerset ... hope David ..BASC is reading this because they should be on this like a ton of bricks ..... but there again aren't they and BDS etc making money out of these courses as well. Both organisations are making a lot of money and probably in the same organisation with secrets as Avon and Somerset It's a money making scandal Amazingly a few years before the courses were available it wasn't a requirement ground /permission = good reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 You dont need mentoring for cf unless its your first application. If you have been shooting rimfire in tbe field and they demand you go on a course they are breeching home office guidelines. I just went through this and forced them to put a .243 on my ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 A little balance they do have a remit to reduce the risk to public safety I regularly see guys who have applied for either a SGC or FAC never having used either. It is my belief the police are quite right to insist on some training so at least the have some basic safety training. Maybe not the case here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 A little balance they do have a remit to reduce the risk to public safety I regularly see guys who have applied for either a SGC or FAC never having used either. It is my belief the police are quite right to insist on some training so at least the have some basic safety training. Maybe not the case here Totally agree people should not be allowed a cf rifle or rimfire in my eyes with no experience. I have been out with loads of people over the years experienced and not experienced. Some certainly should not have a license. But i fully agree mentoring has flaws as does thease courses.but they certainly cannot learn from there mistakes where this is concerned. I am mentoring the op which i would not be doing if i did not feel his gun handling was 100% safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) A little balance they do have a remit to reduce the risk to public safety I regularly see guys who have applied for either a SGC or FAC never having used either. It is my belief the police are quite right to insist on some training so at least the have some basic safety training. Maybe not the case here Home office guidelines do not require you to have experience for a .22lr 'in the field' they do however require to have experience for centrefire. But that experience is not calibre or quarry specific so if you have shot a rimfire for say a couple of years they have no legal right to demand mentoring of any kind for centrefire. This isn't a question of what you think is a good idea or not it is a question of the Police not being allowed to make up their own laws. And it's not like these guidelines haven't been thoroughly debated between BASC, the Police and the home office. And I know this because I literally just threatened West Mercia with court action if they refused my variation, they have now rang me up to apologise and are issuing the rifle I asked for. Edited October 24, 2016 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Totally agree people should not be allowed a cf rifle or rimfire in my eyes with no experience. I have been out with loads of people over the years experienced and not experienced. Some certainly should not have a license. But i fully agree mentoring has flaws as does thease courses.but they certainly cannot learn from there mistakes where this is concerned. I am mentoring the op which i would not be doing if i did not feel his gun handling was 100% safe I have also shared the field with one or two who have done a DSC2 and wouldn't be in the same country if I could help it !!!!! There is no cure or course to cure STUPID. PLUS any of us who have any experience at all AND have made mistakes (you have not done anything if you have not made one) know that the 22RF is the most dangerous rifle in the world. Edited October 24, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_ox Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I have also shared the field with one or two who have done a DSC2 and wouldn't be in the same country if I could help it !!!!! There is no cure or course to cure STUPID. PLUS any of us who have any experience at all AND have made mistakes (you have not done anything if you have not made one) know that the 22RF is the most dangerous rifle in the world. I believe any rifle is the most dangerous in the world, it's all down to who is pulling the trigger. Perhaps the most incidents are caused with a .22rf as it's the most popular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I believe any rifle is the most dangerous in the world, it's all down to who is pulling the trigger. Perhaps the most incidents are caused with a .22rf as it's the most popular? Very true mate. But the reason the guy above is stating 22 is down to the round itself slow heavy round that will ricochet off anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 The problem with the course is If your a novice you take it as gospel if the presenter is good your ok if he's a muppet 😟 You get bad information Who tests and approves the presenter/tester ?? The police I think not The organisation that makes the money Just a thought All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 The problem with the course is If your a novice you take it as gospel if the presenter is good your ok if he's a muppet 😟 You get bad information Who tests and approves the presenter/tester ?? The police I think not The organisation that makes the money Just a thought All the best Of The Police don't care about that it's not a safety thing it's a blame thing. And those on here offering to give mentoring to others would do well to remember that. The Police simply want to absolve themselves of responsibility if anything goes wrong because they can point the finger at the person who 'mentored' the applicant and blame them. It is unlawful behaviour and if you go to BASC and go about things the right way you can force your FEO to acknowledge in writing that you do not need mentoring and issue the variation, as I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Totally agree people should not be allowed a cf rifle or rimfire in my eyes with no experience. I have been out with loads of people over the years experienced and not experienced. Some certainly should not have a license. But i fully agree mentoring has flaws as does thease courses.but they certainly cannot learn from there mistakes where this is concerned. I am mentoring the op which i would not be doing if i did not feel his gun handling was 100% safe Who mentored you and what qualifications do you have to mentor the OP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Agree Lloydy. Totally not within the law and a made up set of rules by Avon & Somerset. You have written permission to shoot on permissible land, you are of good character, that is all that is required to obtain an FAC or SGC. I'm not saying you wasted your money but it should have been your choice. The suggestion you should check out the checkers is not a bad idea. I have knowledge of one instance where a person was kicked off and estate because he couldn't tie his shoe laces and was totally useless, then the Head Stalker of many many years was forced to take a further competence course to satisfy insurance requirements and found this idiot was the examiner. Shame on Avon & Somerset ... hope David ..BASC is reading this because they should be on this like a ton of bricks ..... but there again aren't they and BDS etc making money out of these courses as well. Who mentored you and what qualifications do you have to mentor the OP? Reading through the posts the two above are fairly appropriate. Nothing wrong in getting some relevant experience. One of the son in laws applied in Sussex and was told that he had to do a firearms awareness course and was told to contact x person to arrange it and that it was run in conjunction with basc. X has some sort of letter qualification after his name so S.I .Law looks this up and it is some sort of horticultural qual in regard to trees? SiL contacts X and he says that there are no courses planned for the near future ect The course was going to be £175. All of this was questioned with the department and in the end they put a condition on his cert that for the bigger stuff 243 & 308 that I would have to accompany him ( Mentor) . I contacted the feo to querry this as to how many times or time scale. He said that probably 6 or until I considered him ok. When SiL asked the firearms dept they said about 30 stalks ! How many casual deer shooters shoot that many deer. They might have well said forever on this five year term. talk about make it up as you go along. Still be not afraid basc have got their finger on the pulse and are in consultation with the authorities on your behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Absolutely correct. The whole issue of DSC this and that came about because of 'Insurance' concerns, nothing else. Quote me how many incidents have been recorded over the last 50yrs of injuries or deaths due to sporting rifle use in the field. Most incidents have been 'in house' so to speak, sometimes just that where rifles/guns have gone off when being cleaned etc. ELF & SAFETY gone mad. Covering their backs that is all and it has become an industry. Now, having said all I have said, I am not against education, but that comes in many forms. I am about to help and assist a friend to transition from being a good safe shotgun user to starting to use a full bore rifle for deer, wild boar etc. It is not rocket science and the safety aspects are no different other than realising what a 'safe background' is and the potential of the cartridge he will be using. Then helping him if he has any problem to shoot accurately. I had one DSC2 stalker who fired a shot into thin air through a gap between the trees in a narrow copse and on the other side was a public footpath with people walking their Labrador. The DSC2 had already gut shot a fallow doe at about 50yrds from a high seat. So much for education by experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Home office guidelines do not require you to have experience for a .22lr 'in the field' they do however require to have experience for centrefire. But that experience is not calibre or quarry specific so if you have shot a rimfire for say a couple of years they have no legal right to demand mentoring of any kind for centrefire. This isn't a question of what you think is a good idea or not it is a question of the Police not being allowed to make up their own laws. And it's not like these guidelines haven't been thoroughly debated between BASC, the Police and the home office. And I know this because I literally just threatened West Mercia with court action if they refused my variation, they have now rang me up to apologise and are issuing the rifle I asked for. Oh I apologies I now thing it's all ok for people who have never touch (that means not held, handled let alone fire) a 22lr or shotgun just to be given them and allowed to use them anywhere they have permission as in the see fit in their total inexpierenced hands it will be fine. Oh actually you've not changed my mind at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourer103 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 just a thought, dont voluntary good ideas have a habit of becoming compulsary? i would be very wary of a money making organisation that does these courses, and has already mentioned who tests the teachers, i have a lifetimes experience with all types of airguns and fire arms, does that make me a good teacher, i dont know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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