London attack

[racing snake]

No, it's time to take the gloves off and throw the civil liberties and human rights of anyone directly associated with terrorism in the bin, as soon as may got in the first thing she did was remove most of your privacy regarding communication of any sort, they can legally tap your phones, read all of your texts and emails, snoop into every aspect of your private life (these are the rights and freedom your grandparents died in the war to protect and people just gave them away freely because they were scared and spineless, my grandad would be turning in his grave right now as would everyone elses), this was done under the premise that it would prevent atrocities like Manchester, Westminster Bridge, Borough market from happening. Clearly it was nothing more than a load of bs that stupid Ignorant foolish people allowed to happen as it's hasn't made a blind bit if difference, however now anything you say in confidence that isn't done face to face is now the property of the government.

The inaccuracies of some of the posts I've read here are appalling. Can't individuals carry out even the most cursory of research before posting?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-westminster-attack-michael-fallon-terror-threat-islamist-lone-wolf-low-tech-car-truck-vehicle-a7645221.html

 

I'm sorry but your post completely contradicts itself before being even halfway through. You can only improve detection by increasing intelligence through covert surveillance. A significant part of that has already been used to foil a large number of terrorist plots in the UK. The security forces have to be lucky 100% of the time (impossible). How do you ascertain an individual's intentions - asking them politely?

 

The other one that seems to regularly do the rounds - deportation. Where do you "deport" a British national to? Serious answers only please. Are we seriously suggesting it should be based on skin colour or religion? Come on! I'm certainly no liberal, but it's either simply impossible or manifestly unethical to suggest people should be deported to another country because of their religion. For every possible terrorist you might include in the net you'll include 1000...10,000? innocent people who are as opposed to radicalization as the rest of us. That's a sure way to swell the ranks of extremists.

 

It's patently obvious that a great many people simply cannot comprehend the issue of homegrown terrorism, and how difficult it is to counter without persecuting a greater majority of completely innocent individuals. That's OK as long as it's not you or I is it?

Edited June 4, 2017 by racing snake

[Ollieollie]

Like the many muslims who reported their concerns about the Manchester bomber?

Of the Mosque that banned him from going there because of his extremist views and also reported him?

You walk through alum rock in Birmingham on an evening and see how welcoming the community is to a white male, to protect ourselves there will be some collateral damage, or shall we continue to roll over and get #£@£%& in the £%&£.

[Cranfield]

The armed Police response was quick, but according to media reports, Police with batons were unable to stop people being stabbed, especially by one suspect who was estimated to be 6'-3" tall.

How many people could have been saved if those Police had been armed ?

I think that there will be a massive increase in armed Police in the next year, or so.

Not just high viz automatic weapons at points of interest, but side arms for uniformed police.

 

Another problem with controlling these crimes that people don't seem to mention, is that the perpetrators have no interest in getting away afterwards.

[ordnance]

The fact is that these types of attacks are going to continue, what is obvious when these attacks happen they need to be stopped ASAP by the first police on the scene, that means all police need to be armed on and off duty. But at this time the police and government don't even trust the armed response police they have to be armed off duty, never mind arm all police. And the same people beating their chests on what should be done, come up with all sorts of reasons and excuses why the police should or could not be armed.

Edited June 4, 2017 by ordnance

[Lloyd90]

so no ones allowed to say anything to upset the muslims or post will be deleted deport all the scum they don't like infidels like us anyway let them go **** up there own lands

No one minds fighting extremism!

 

Where would you deport someone who was born in the U.K.?

 

Shouting that we should deport all Muslims shows your just a dim as the hate preachers 🙄

[Scully]

The armed Police response was quick, but according to media reports, Police with batons were unable to stop people being stabbed, especially by one suspect who was estimated to be 6'-3" tall.

How many people could have been saved if those Police had been armed ?

I think that there will either be a massive increase in armed Police in the next year, or so.

Not just high viz automatic weapons at points of interest, but side arms for uniformed police.

 

Another problem with controlling these crimes that people don't seem to mention, is that the perpetrators have no interest in getting away afterwards.

 

Thank you, and thank you for stating the obvious. It is a major major bugbear of mine that whilst this government wont allow the general public to protect themselves to a practical extent, that even those tasked with protecting the general public don't have the means to do it, and yet I am reluctant to state it as It always seems to be me who calls for fighting fire with fire.

Arming the police is past beyond becoming a necessity. It wont stop what is happening but it is a step in the right direction.

so no ones allowed to say anything to upset the muslims or post will be deleted deport all the scum they don't like infidels like us anyway let them go **** up there own lands

And if they're British?

[Bazooka Joe]

Where would you deport someone who was born in the U.K.?

 

would you be in favour of deporting the one's that have dual nationality.?

 

[Lloyd90]

 

would you be in favour of deporting the one's that have dual nationality.?

 

Not if they've not done anything wrong lol!

 

The idea raised was "deport the Muslims".

[racing snake]

 

would you be in favour of deporting the one's that have dual nationality.?

 

 

I think there has already been stripping of UK nationality from dual nationality individuals suspected of links to terrorism. I think this could certainly be a place that receives increased attention, though it comes with the risk of propagating a two-tier society.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/01/stripping-criminals-uk-citizenship-racisrt-sex-abusers-terrorists-two-classes-citizens

 

Bear in mind, loss of civil liberties isn't and can never be specific to a single group. It's all-encompassing and despite what you read after such events it would not be palatable to the vast majority of society. It's also an incredibly dangerous route to take, as the (admittedly extreme) passage from Martin Niemoller highlights.

 

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

People need to understand that what they're advocating will affect them, in some way, eventually.

Edited June 4, 2017 by racing snake

[yickdaz]

Cranfield, on 04 Jun 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

The armed Police response was quick, but according to media reports, Police with batons were unable to stop people being stabbed, especially by one suspect who was estimated to be 6'-3" tall.

How many people could have been saved if those Police had been armed ?

I think that there will either be a massive increase in armed Police in the next year, or so.

Not just high viz automatic weapons at points of interest, but side arms for uniformed police.

 

Another problem with controlling these crimes that people don't seem to mention, is that the perpetrators have no interest in getting away afterwards.

they should of been armed years ago to be honest, but totally agree if most officers have a beretta or a glock handy it may make them think twice, it must put a seed of doubt in the terrorists mind knowing that wherever there is a police presence they could well be shot

[clakk]

The big issue here is to arm the police for an instant response to knife carrying nutters and deport the non British known to the security services trained extremists.We cant deport British born as obviously theyre already "home" but you can get rid of the so called persons of interest by sending them back to wherever they came from.

Any one who takes up arms against their adopted country has no human rights ,if theyve been born in Syria ,trained in Syria and allowed back in to Britain what part of stupid does the goverment not get

[lord_seagrave]

There was a good turnout at St Magnus the Martyr next to London Bridge this morning (just on my way back), very much in the spirit of 'keep calm and carry on'. When I left, the congregation and a whole lot of visitors were enjoying canapés and fizz in the courtyard.

 

LS

[Mice!]

Watched this happening last night and cringed, the fact that these individuals were put down fast, no talking them down just bang bang done is a massive positive step.

 

Arming all police wouldn't work as not all police want arming but tassers could be in place by next week, there or four police zapping some crazy with a knife should stop them if armed response aren't there,

 

I would tag everyone of interest not nice but something has to be done, how long till were looking at vigilantes roaming the streets or riots as in 2011.

 

I agree you can't simply deport all Muslims and why should you, but ban travel to countries that we have issue with, if you visit these countries your done, no coming back.

 

Got to start somewhere.

[yickdaz]

Watched this happening last night and cringed, the fact that these individuals were put down fast, no talking them down just bang bang done is a massive positive step.

 

Arming all police wouldn't work as not all police want arming but tassers could be in place by next week, there or four police zapping some crazy with a knife should stop them if armed response aren't there,

 

I would tag everyone of interest not nice but something has to be done, how long till were looking at vigilantes roaming the streets or riots as in 2011.

 

I agree you can't simply deport all Muslims and why should you, but ban travel to countries that we have issue with, if you visit these countries your done, no coming back.

 

Got to start somewhere.

but what if and when the terrorist is armed with an ak47 ?

[winnie&bezza]

I was working doing an extension for armed MET officer and used to chat with him about increasing police numbers with firearms. He taught as well. He said that the cost of training them would be an issue and also said that a lot of officers that come through are complete idiots and wouldn't even trust them with a car.

[winnie&bezza]

There is a video on YouTube where about 6-7 officers have cornered a man with a hammer. The video is captured by police cameras I presume. There are a police dogs, officers with tasers and sidearms. The outcome is extremely alarming and shocking. Probably wouldn't be allowed to post it up. Look up man attacks officers with hammer. Just shows how stupidly tight our laws are with deadly force.

[ordnance]

 

 

Arming all police wouldn't work as not all police want arming.

Times and circumstances change work and work contracts change. People come up with all sorts of reasons why the police could not or should not be armed none of them stand up to scrutiny when looked at, not wanting to be armed is a good example. Where there's a will there's a way.

[Mice!]

but what if and when the terrorist is armed with an ak47 ?

Then police aren't go to engage, what I'm saying is all officers could be carrying tassers pretty quick, compared with fire arms training which takes how long?

 

My other thought was more dogs but again time taken for training, tassers could be rolled out quick make it known you brandish a weapon in public, knife hammer anything you are going to be subject to maximum force available.

[Mice!]

Aren't all police in Paris armed?

 

I would welcome the arming of all police but it would take a lot of training time and money.

 

Roll out the army we could have armed posts around cities but how long could that be warrented?

[timmytree]

We will see i doubt there will be any changes, the type of changes and security measures that might make some differences would not be acceptable to most people and politicians in the UK.

Maybe the politicians wouldn't feel comfortable but the majority of the public would welcome any measures that reduce terrorism. Proof yet again that although voted in, no politician can or will deliver what the common people want.

[yickdaz]

Aren't all police in Paris armed?

 

I would welcome the arming of all police but it would take a lot of training time and money.

 

Roll out the army we could have armed posts around cities but how long could that be warrented?

I,m on your side and there is a lot to consider, but something needs to be put into place fast because its going to keep happening, and this debate will come up again what if that officer was armed he could of stopped 10 people being injured or killed

[Me matt]

Just seen 12 arrested in Barking east london in connection with the London attack.

[ronnie12342003]

No one minds fighting extremism!

 

Where would you deport someone who was born in the U.K.?

 

Shouting that we should deport all Muslims shows your just a dim as the hate preachers

say what you like mate if they **** with me or mine thats the last thing they will do even muslims born here hate us so how can we trust any of them if i went to iraq and wanted to open a christian church they would chop of my head there is no give and take they simply hate us infidels

[ronnie12342003]

 

Thank you, and thank you for stating the obvious. It is a major major bugbear of mine that whilst this government wont allow the general public to protect themselves to a practical extent, that even those tasked with protecting the general public don't have the means to do it, and yet I am reluctant to state it as It always seems to be me who calls for fighting fire with fire.

Arming the police is past beyond becoming a necessity. It wont stop what is happening but it is a step in the right direction.

And if they're British?

stop trying to make them ok if there british there muslims they hate us really hate us we are in there way they want to take over england

[Lloyd90]

stop trying to make them ok if there british there muslims they hate us really hate us we are in there way they want to take over england

Once again just showing how ignorant you are!

 

It's quite funny really as you don't see that your the same as the people your condemning, the hate preachers, your just on the opposite side!

 

I recently watched the Jihadi next door, they were preaching extremism outside a mosque and every person coming out told them do "**** ***" and gave them a load of abuse!

 

Your view that every single Muslim hates us and our way of life is ridiculous.