Old farrier Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 A UK police force already arms its officers on and off duty. No it stays in his holster. Sorry not happy about anyone bringing a loaded gun into my house We require good reason to have and transport them it surely is a two way street Not criticism just a view While I appreciate why lots of people want all police to be armed I can see massive problems for the police Anyway just my thoughts All the best Of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Danger-Mouse, on 04 Jun 2017 - 6:27 PM, said: Deuteronomy 17 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 13: 6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. Numbers 31New International Version (NIV) Vengeance on the Midianites 31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling. 7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. 13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. 19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.” 21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, “This is what is required by the law that the Lord gave Moses: 22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead 23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. 24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp.” thing is though we don't carry any of this out, they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I think this is half the problem with people expressing their opinion as though its a fact. I know and have known for many years a large number of Muslims and although they are devout, they are not extremists, nor do they condone terrorist activities. I will readily accept there are good and bad in all walks of life, but don't condemn the majority for the sins of the minority. They may not condone extremism, but they may not condemn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 thing is though we don't carry any of this out, they do I never said we do. I was simply providing the quotes someone asked for. Christianity has had plenty of outrages committed in it's name. There's a very memorable quote by one churchman from the Albigensian Crusade. A Cathar city is about to be sacked and someone asks "What about the true Christians still in the city?" The churchman's reply . . . "Kill them all. God will take his own". Fanatical belief in any system, be it religious or political is a very dangerous thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 [quote name="neil w" post="3268463" timestamp="1496594943 The government, has to stop, spending money on the work shy. And spend It on the military. So they can protect the citizens of the UK. In most situations they cannot protect the citizens of the UK; isn't that apparent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I can't understand why an armed police officer entering a home would need to check and make safe his firearm! Defeats the entire purpose of being armed. As has been suggested; it simply remains in its holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I can't understand why an armed police officer entering a home would need to check and make safe his firearm! Defeats the entire purpose of being armed. As has been suggested; it simply remains in its holster. Agreed, and what are you going to do anyway, you've either called the police for help, or you're wanted to be spoken to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Interesting thread and debate Not sure how to resolve it But think Arm all the police So then a policeman calling at your house requesting to come in Do you ask him to unload his firearm and show clear There's a massive problem with arming the police All police will assumed to be armed if you arm a high number makes them more of a target and massive pressure not fair on them As I said don't know what the answer is but don't think giving a gun to every policeman is the right way Just my thoughts All the best Of No need to clear sidearms,most use the Glock pistol same as the current Army service sidearm,there is no safety on the weapon itself,the safety is the leg / belt holster it's kept in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 A very high percentage of Muslims do not want to integrate, I asked someone I know who happens to be a Muslim the question why they seemed to have a closed door approach to integration and why they create their own society within that country, he said its the teachings of the Quran/Koran and its mosque elders that think we in the west are a bad influence on their young people and religious believes. So long as this situation continues we will never have an integrated society and these attacks will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollieollie Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 A very high percentage of Muslims do not want to integrate, I asked someone I know who happens to be a Muslim the question why they seemed to have a closed door approach to integration and why they create their own society within that country, he said its the teachings of the Quran/Koran and its mosque elders that think we in the west are a bad influence on their young people and religious believes. So long as this situation continues we will never have an integrated society and these attacks will continue. Bang on Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I can't understand why an armed police officer entering a home would need to check and make safe his firearm! Defeats the entire purpose of being armed. As has been suggested; it simply remains in its holster. Sorry scully I said in the future when all police are armed not present day When one assumes that at the moment the police only send armed police to the relevant problem however In the future al would be armed and potentially visiting for a minor problem i.e. We have found your car burned out or we have caught the lads that stole your bike or witnessed a car accident Bit of paperwork to do do you mind if I come in Well yes I do if you're carrying a loaded gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) I live in Leeds and we have alwways welcomed religious minorities over many years. Jews, Indians and now the Pakistani community. I know quite a few in both the Jewish and Indian & Sikh communities and they bemoan the fact that the Pakistani community for whatever reasons have never tried to integrate. as they have. Edited June 4, 2017 by keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 No need to clear sidearms,most use the Glock pistol same as the current Army service sidearm,there is no safety on the weapon itself,the safety is the leg / belt holster it's kept in. No need to clear a semi auto at a clay ground then the safety is on the gun and it's on its way into a slip (holster ) Sorry BB Can't see any good coming out of arming all the police That's what we have the armed forces for well trained in the use of firearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I'm not saying arm all police OF,I'm just clearing the issue of unloading a issue sidearm,the glock is used by police/military and there is no requirement to unload the weapon system,if it's fitted in the holster it is deemed safe,atb BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I think all police should be trained in fire arms , locked in the vehicles can't see a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) We didnt unload or clear our rifles or sidearms when entering house in NI Bosnia Kosovo Iraq or Afghanistan. A military law enforcement grade weapon is a very different thing to a sporting gun weapon and gun handling are not quite the same and the level of training is miles apart. I don't want to see the day that we have all police armed but I didn't want to see the day we had troops on our streets. I'm afraid it's coming sooner or later. Edited June 4, 2017 by welshwarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margun Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 It should be noted that London cabbies offered people free rides home after the attack. Whereas I believe Uber put their prices up. 100% accurate AVB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 We didnt unload or clear our rifles or sidearms when entering house in NI Bosnia Kosovo Iraq or Afghanistan. A military law enforcement grade weapon is a very different thing to a sporting gun weapon and gun handling are not quite the same and the level of training is miles apart. I don't want to see the day that we have all police armed but I didn't want to see the day we had troops on our streets. I'm afraid it's coming sooner or later. I agree I never had to clear weapons and never saw an accident or a ND in two years in NIrelad and we saw some incidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 You don't need to be sorry OF; we're just having a debate. We're all entitled to an opinion. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) It should be noted that London cabbies offered people free rides home after the attack. Whereas I believe Uber put their prices up.It was the algorithm behind their surge pricing that did it. They switched it off once a human being realised what was happening. They have refunded all fares today making the journeys free. They did the same 2 weeks ago in Manchester. I understand they are going to donate to the Manchester charity tonight a sum equal to all the Uber fares too and from the concert. Edited June 4, 2017 by SNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) I think all police should be trained in fire arms , locked in the vehicles can't see a problem. It would be a start, but to be effective they have to be carried on the person ready for immediate use not locked in cars. Edited June 4, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 It would be a start, but to be effective they have to be carried on the person ready for immediate use not locked in cars. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Just my opinion but I would not trust 90% of the snot nosed police to be left in a room with an orange let alone to carry a firearm. It should be left to trained personnel i.e. Military personel that have real life experience and training of what they could be potentially facing Edited June 4, 2017 by stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) We didnt unload or clear our rifles or sidearms when entering house in NI Bosnia Kosovo Iraq or Afghanistan. A military law enforcement grade weapon is a very different thing to a sporting gun weapon and gun handling are not quite the same and the level of training is miles apart. I don't want to see the day that we have all police armed but I didn't want to see the day we had troops on our streets. I'm afraid it's coming sooner or later. Exactly WW when in Bosnia we loaded when we arrived and unloaded when we left,apart from cleaning and changing mags weekly due to spring compression we were loaded 24/7 for 7 months And the Glock is deemed safe enough to load at the beginning of a 12 HR shift and unloaded at the end of the shift! As you say the training is much more rigid than someone chambering a couple of carts to shoot a rabbit lol,BB Edited June 4, 2017 by Bluebarrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 This thread is now being closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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