BASC and CA unite against Packham

[scotslad]

Yep, had to copy link out.

 

 

So its all okay to put this on the basc website, but where is this being shown to joe public? Packham is dribbling this carp all over social media.. Where are BASC and CA putting this apart from on media that the people who agree and know packhams carp.

 

I think that is the major problem we have.

Its just not very news worthy and doesn't write its own headlines the way the lies or half truths do.

 

I must admit beefy Botham has put both those orgs to shame over the past few years since he started u forgot abut the birds campign, in my opinion he has done far more to publicly defend shooting and go on the front foot/attack than either of those orgs have for decades.

I must admit as a long time basc member (usual supporter of them too) they have been very disappointing over the last few years and the CA have gone up in my estimitions.

 

Must admit I would like to see basc, ca and more work (ngo, sga, gwct) together far more often, in fact I've thought for a few years now all the shooting orgs should dtick a fiver on their subs which goes into a kitty for a fighting/pr fund and all the orgs pull together and really get out there and put the message across.

Open days on shoots or talks open visits esp for journalist type uni courses and environmental courses, as those are the people who will be wrting the stories in the press and making future environmental laws which will affect us.

When I done my environmental degree I was the only shooter out of a class o 100 and only met 1 other fisher, most of my fellow conservationist students were raving anti's

[motty]

Basc need to get into mainstream media. Until it does, their message will never be heard.

[stagboy]

Scotslad thinks the CA have done well over recent years. Really? Let's just look at this dispassionately: the CA's main role in life was always to protect hunting with hounds. Yet hunting with hounds got banned. Hmm. Not much of a result there, then.

 

And after the crazy stunt of putting hunting on the recent general election manifesto, hunting effectively got banned again! Certainly, there is no chance of a repeal now. So that was a good idea, wasn't it? (Especially when everybody was happily hunting anyway; what about letting sleeping dogs lie?)

 

We have yet to see how the perceived toxicity of the hunting issue on the doorstep during the election will affect other fieldsports such as shooting. But many MPs and prospective MPs now regard the whole issue of fieldsports as a no-go area. Again, poor result - and not just for the hunters.

 

Issuing emotive press releases and banging the drum may enthuse the faithful, but does it always get the right result? Yes, it has its place. But so does the really solid groundwork. In short, there has to be some substance behind the soundbites, or eventually they get seen for what they are.

 

I think it is great the CA and BASC are working together. Long may this collaboration last. But I know which one does most for shooting.

 

As for Beefy "putting them to shame", words almost fail me; does anybody really think Beefy has been acting on his own initiative?

[panoma1]

 

Issuing emotive press releases and banging the drum may enthuse the faithful, but does it always get the right result? Yes, it has its place. But so does the really solid groundwork. In short, there has to be some substance behind the soundbites, or eventually they get seen for what they are.

 

I think the antis would, with justification, disagree with that statement!

[scotslad]

To be fair ur probably right about the hunting stag boy, but at the time off the original hunting ban the way some hunter /CA went on pretty much put me off them/mounted hunting for life.

I used to be in the old BFSS many many moons ago and have followed mounted packs but have zero interest in them now (althou still occasional shoot for a foot pack)

So not anti hunting, but sometimes they don't help themselves much

 

I was talking more about how they've conducted themselves for shooting sports and esp the LAG debacle which could of been an absolute disaster and basc were put/put themselves in a very bad position with there former boss being the only 1 representing them and him turning out to be anti lead, not good.

 

 

I'm sure beefy has advisers but I'm also pretty sure if they were from org's in an official capacity that org would be wanting its banner in the back ground, most of them are never slow in trying to show us wot they're doing and self promoting.

Who ever is advising him deserves a pat on the back too, and fair play to him for standing up for the sport.

How many other celebrites that shoot are willing to stand up for it now? all too scared of the social media back lash.

While it shouldn't make a difference who is the spokesperson is, having some chinless wonder with a private school accent doesn't help sometimes when most of the problems the root is jealousy or class warfare rather than animal welfare

 

For far too long shooting orgs/shooters have tried to hide and hope it will go away, its only got worse as the population becomes more urbanised and even more detached from country life/food production/nature.

Basc/ca etal should be challenging every false repot/lie in the papers, yes it won't do much/any good after the original story has been printed but at least editors/legal dept will learn that they're reports have to at least research their stories properly or get a view form the other side.and they can't write any old rubbish without some come back/ear ache

 

The only real way to help the problems is education getting school kids out into the country but also or more importantly getting to the people who take the school kids out, my local nature reserve take hundreds of kids out every year but are quite anti shooting or even pest control to the point 50plus resident mallards can't fledge a single duckling, been 5 or so years since a duckling survived yet the rest of committee still won't allow any crow/stoat control.

The same for environmental student, and journalist, tv folk take them a nice shoot walk and finish with some simulated clays and/or some supervised rifle shooting at least then they would have a basic grasp of the difference between a shot gun and rifle and 'sniper rifles' only really exist in the army

[stagboy]

I do not disagree which much of what you say ands we must be carful not to allow the antis to exploit a wedge between organisations. At the same time, we have to be scrupulously accurate, even if the other side aren't. I wonder if the antis are happy with the rather pathetic level of general media coverage their supposedly great anting hunting march gained?

 

On the CA website at the moment, it states: "Whilst promoting this protest march Mr Packham called game shooters “psychopaths” in a quote given to the Badger Trust website".

 

​Well, I have clicked through the link on the CA site, and the offending quote is as follows: "A rapidly growing number of people have had enough cruelty and criminality in the UK countryside . We’ve had it with snares , lead shot , illegal persecution , we’ve had it with a lack of scientifically informed decisions and animals being ripped to pieces with dogs , we’ve had it with our dwindling wildlife being wasted by psychopaths who kill for pleasure . Killing wildlife for fun is a dying business - please come along and help drive another nail in its vile coffin’"

 

​Is that unequivocally calling game shooter psychopaths? Certainly it's very unpleasant, utterly inappropriate for a BBC presenter, and I think the CA is quite right to make a formal complaint about Packham - for all sorts of reasons. I hope do they prevail.

 

But if Packham (who readily supports deer management, incidentally) really was meaning to brand all game shooters psychopaths, which the CA states as fact, then I 'd have though he would have done so explicitly, not implicitly. Maybe the CA has correctly interpreted Packham's words as encompassing anybody who pots a pheasant for the pot. Maybe this is a valid way of shaking shooting folk out of their complacency. But allowing the weasels at the BBC any wriggle room to highlight an ambiguity in a complaint is not wise, I reckon.

 

Packham should be hung out to dry on what he actually says, not what the CA says he meant. We have to be careful not to devalue our own currency.

[scotslad]

U make a good point stag boy.

 

I'm probably just as guility as the vast majority of people just taking things at face value without looking into wot was actually said or wot context it was said in and we do have to be careful not to fall into the antis way of 'fake news' or argue between ourselves and happily throw another sport under the bus to save our own pastime (wether hunters vs lampers or everyone against either grouse or commercial shooting because its expensive)

 

Sadly it seems to e the way modern lifestyles are going, when the president of the 'most powerful country' on the planet thinks its acceptable, normal or wise to try and diffuse a potential nuclear war via twitter we really do have problems.

[Scully]

I do not disagree which much of what you say ands we must be carful not to allow the antis to exploit a wedge between organisations. At the same time, we have to be scrupulously accurate, even if the other side aren't. I wonder if the antis are happy with the rather pathetic level of general media coverage their supposedly great anting hunting march gained?

 

On the CA website at the moment, it states: "Whilst promoting this protest march Mr Packham called game shooters psychopaths in a quote given to the Badger Trust website".

 

​Well, I have clicked through the link on the CA site, and the offending quote is as follows: "A rapidly growing number of people have had enough cruelty and criminality in the UK countryside . Weve had it with snares , lead shot , illegal persecution , weve had it with a lack of scientifically informed decisions and animals being ripped to pieces with dogs , weve had it with our dwindling wildlife being wasted by psychopaths who kill for pleasure . Killing wildlife for fun is a dying business - please come along and help drive another nail in its vile coffin"

 

​Is that unequivocally calling game shooter psychopaths? Certainly it's very unpleasant, utterly inappropriate for a BBC presenter, and I think the CA is quite right to make a formal complaint about Packham - for all sorts of reasons. I hope do they prevail.

 

But if Packham (who readily supports deer management, incidentally) really was meaning to brand all game shooters psychopaths, which the CA states as fact, then I 'd have though he would have done so explicitly, not implicitly. Maybe the CA has correctly interpreted Packham's words as encompassing anybody who pots a pheasant for the pot. Maybe this is a valid way of shaking shooting folk out of their complacency. But allowing the weasels at the BBC any wriggle room to highlight an ambiguity in a complaint is not wise, I reckon.

 

Packham should be hung out to dry on what he actually says, not what the CA says he meant. We have to be careful not to devalue our own currency.

I'm not really sure I follow this post. If Packham wasn't including gameshooters amongst those who 'kill for fun' as psychopaths, then who in fact do you actually think he was referring to?

As for which organisation is more effectual than another, perhaps we need to be judging them by proposed legislation ( either pending or proposed ) which has been defeated by their interjection.

Just a thought.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Scully

[rogcal]

As he is so against hunting with dogs I would love to invite Mr Packham to ride shotgun with me when I go on the hunt for hare coursers over the next few months, on land owned by myself and my neighbours.

 

Once I have cornered them I would let him have a verbal discourse with them whilst I stand well back with my phone ready to record the ensuing "conversation".

 

All his screams of "but I'm a famous TV star" would count for nothing as they show him how they deal with landowners who dare confront them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greylag]

Has there been any footage of the march on any of the news channels

[Gordon R]

As for Beefy "putting them to shame", words almost fail me; does anybody really think Beefy has been acting on his own initiative?

 

 

It's a shame words didn't fail you. Your arrogance in questioning whether Sir Ian Botham acted on his own initiative is breath-taking. Have you any proof to support your snide remark or are you a stirrer?

[ShootingEgg]

Has there been any footage of the march on any of the news channels

Not seen any, but bbc news website did run a story on one group on a moor thats licence is due for renewal next year for grouse.

[neutron619]

We’ve had it with snares , lead shot , illegal persecution , we’ve had it with a lack of scientifically informed decisions and animals being ripped to pieces with dogs...’"

 

What's most worrying is that he's able to apparently conflate legal activities - i.e. snares, lead shot - with illegal persecution and get away with it. The problem is always that they put something actually illegal in the middle of a list of legal activities which they disagree with, and it's presented as a fait accompli, as if all those things were illegal. This tends to go unchallenged. It should not.

[Scully]

 

What's most worrying is that he's able to apparently conflate legal activities - i.e. snares, lead shot - with illegal persecution and get away with it. The problem is always that they put something actually illegal in the middle of a list of legal activities which they disagree with, and it's presented as a fait accompli, as if all those things were illegal. This tends to go unchallenged. It should not.

Yes, very misleading, especially when no one takes the time to point out the points you raise.

[del.gue]

The way i read the comments i did not see any ambiguity.

I believe he meant to say it and he is calling all shooters psycopaths!

[panoma1]

The way i read the comments i did not see any ambiguity.

I believe he meant to say it and he is calling all shooters psycopaths!

I think you are right! typical coward....imply but do not directly accuse!......he comes across as an unstable, fixated, poisonous inadequate, hiding behind a conservationist facade whilst deceiving and misleading a gullible public in order to garner support for his anti fieldsports agenda!

[David BASC]

Apologies if I missed the reply to some previous posts

 

All BASC work re press releases etc. are here: https://basc.org.uk/

 

All BASC's work on a month by month basis is here: https://basc.org.uk/bascbites/

[ShootingEgg]

Apologies if I missed the reply to some previous posts

 

All BASC work re press releases etc. are here: https://basc.org.uk/

 

All BASC's work on a month by month basis is here: https://basc.org.uk/bascbites/

And for the general public who dont goto these links? How do you combat things like packhams dribbling?

[wymberley]

And for the general public who dont goto these links? How do you combat things like packhams dribbling?

Your turn of phrase appealed to me for some reason.

So I got the dictionary and found that one meaning is to slaver as would an idiot. So, yep, spot on.

[David BASC]

The press releases go to the shooting press and the general news press too, we try to get onto TV and radio as often as possible too, and are taking the BBC to take over bias reporting too as it says on our web site

Edited August 14, 2017 by David BASC

[itchy trigger]

Jeremy Paxman wrote an article in the Telegraph yesterday about this

[old'un]

Apologies if I missed the reply to some previous posts

 

All BASC work re press releases etc. are here: https://basc.org.uk/

 

All BASC's work on a month by month basis is here: https://basc.org.uk/bascbites/

David BASC, Having looked at the BASC press release page I think it as answered the questions to my posts #8 and #22

[ShootingEgg]

Your turn of phrase appealed to me for some reason.

So I got the dictionary and found that one meaning is to slaver as would an idiot. So, yep, spot on.

[Scully]

Jeremy Paxman wrote an article in the Telegraph yesterday about this

So what did he have to say?

[del.gue]

I cant find that article online...

But i just sent my complaint to the biased broadcasting corporation... and a letter to my mp who is pro shooting.

Edited August 14, 2017 by del.gue