Confused from Birmingham

[pigeon controller]

Dear Marge.

I have tiptoed into the Dark Side to try a reload sub sonics and steel thinking I will save some money, saying that I have not loaded a shell yet. I have offers of help from forum members but have a fear of blowing my head off!!

One tip was to find a steel shell I like and cut it open and just ease back on the powder, so I have the shot, Alliant Steel powder and primed hulls ready to go. I have five spec sheets from Clay and Game.

so I cut open my shells and the results are as follows:-

Fiocchi Steel                                  32gram.  No 4 shot. Powder 26.02gn  shot  20.23 gram

Lyavale Hunting steel.                  32gram.   No 5 shot. Powder 30.00gn. shot  20.55 gram

Lyavale Hunting Steel .                 32gram.   No 4 shot.  Powder 30.06gn. Shot  19.69 gram

For reference a lead shot cartridge

Proper Cartrides .                           32gram.   No 6 lead shot. Powder 21.40gn lead shot 31.92 gram

None of the powders resemble Alliant steel which tends to be black granular they tend to green square in shape.

The steel menus powder weights are as follows38,37.50,34.00,34.50 and 43.00

From an engineering prospective I understand that the shot needs to be contained in the wad cup during its passage up the barrel and steel is not as dense as lead so is that why the weight is light. 

Is it safe to find a shot  load that just fills the wad and stick with that ? 

Go for a mid range powder weight of 35gn of Alliant

Dear Aunty Marge I hope you can help?

[JDog]

It has been nice knowing you PC.

[TR1]

Sorry can't help much on the loads but if the subsonic is for your hushpower don't forget they need to be fibre if used with ported barrel.

[old'un]

Let me know when you start as I need to board the windows up, mind you as your east of the M5 I only need to board the back windows.

[Walker570]

Old'un ...now don't take risks. Open up the nuclear shelter right away. I'm 40 miles east of you so will try and send a 3 minute warning ...remember them ?

 

 

[marsh man]

If you take your time in consideration and the cost of matarials , what would you be saving ? , the man to put you right on reloading is half of the M and M team from N / Norfolk , Good luck if you take on the challenge yourself.

[Walker570]

I am only familiar with pressure signs on centre fire rifle reloads. I think you need to ease down the powder load in very small increments and check the primer etc for anyhting that looks like a pressure spike. On rifles it is slight flattening of primer, then sticky extraction but when it gets to that you have gone too far off the scale.  If your shotgun is moderated then even using standard cartridges the noise is reduced considerably...with my Husher 410 Mossberg anyway.  The financial savings will not be worth the trouble.

[panoma1]

Unlike lead, I believe Steel being light, needs speed to kill cleanly at range? Less powder less speed! Is steel suitable for subsonic loads?

[pigeon controller]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Unlike lead, I believe Steel being light, needs speed to kill cleanly at range? Less powder less speed! Is steel suitable for subsonic loads?

No , I will be loading sub sonics with lead.

 

42 minutes ago, JDog said:

It has been nice knowing you PC.

That is my concern, reloading is a bit like Magicians and the Magic Circle. They have secrets and the uninitiated have the scars to prove it. 

[pigeon controller]

To digress, when I retired I thought I would have all the is spare time on my hands. I decide to to all the "wish I'd " things that I missed growing up. So I set about making snares, tealers, ferret nets, long nets etc as I had copious amounts of time . This gave me great satisfaction catching animals with my home made equipment. Reloading came about due to the cost of sub sonics and also steel . Now with grandchildren I do not seem to have all that time but I have loads of empty hulls. 

So the reloading is not totally financial lead, but it would give me a challenge to carry out in the " Man Cave " to avoid the television at night.

The original post is the point out the differences between steel and lead.

[snow white]

If you are loading lead why are you asking about steel.

For gods sake dont mix them up 

[Dave at kelton]

I load steel in heavy loads for geese. Because steel is less dense than lead it needs speed to kill cleanly so we never look to reduce our speed as we just end up wounding. I am looking for 1450 fps. You are looking for sub 1125fps. Look on Gamebore  site and see what speeds their steel loads generate. They are fast for a very good reason; they need to kill. I would not bother doing what you are trying. 

If you really intend to load then you must must must recognise the steel is far less forgiving than lead. Don't experiment. Get a recipe from Claygame and stick to it. Weigh the ingredients accurately and don't  guess by just filling the plastic shotcup. If I did that without my packers in the 10 bore shot cup I would be way over on shot weight with a significant increase in pressure and probably would not be posting this.

I think we would all prefer not to be reading your obituary on this site.

[MAB1954]

Get yourself a shot shell reloading manual and read it a few times so you understand the process. Suggest the Lyman manual 5th Ed down side is its all American components but it covers the process.

[pigeon controller]

54 minutes ago, snow white said:

If you are loading lead why are you asking about steel.

For gods sake dont mix them up 

If you read the post I have not loaded anything yet and my query was the disproportionate weight  between lead and Steel in different 32gram cartridges. The Clay and game proof house sheets state " Do Not Use" in red at the bottom of the sheet, Ammunition fails statically.??????

I'm just being cautious before I start as I want a recipe that I can constantly load time  after time.

I will do the same with the subsonics when I decide to load.

31 minutes ago, MAB1954 said:

Get yourself a shot shell reloading manual and read it a few times so you understand the process. Suggest the Lyman manual 5th Ed down side is its all American components but it covers the process.

I have the latest edition from America.I have 5K unprimed hulls and 250 primed hulls waiting to go.

[Guest cookoff013]

Subs are about low volume powder, sub 17grain and high enough pressure.

[steve d]

4 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

Dear Marge.

I have tiptoed into the Dark Side to try a reload sub sonics and steel thinking I will save some money, saying that I have not loaded a shell yet. I have offers of help from forum members but have a fear of blowing my head off!!

One tip was to find a steel shell I like and cut it open and just ease back on the powder, so I have the shot, Alliant Steel powder and primed hulls ready to go. I have five spec sheets from Clay and Game.

so I cut open my shells and the results are as follows:-

Fiocchi Steel                                  32gram.  No 4 shot. Powder 26.02gn  shot  20.23 gram

Lyavale Hunting steel.                  32gram.   No 5 shot. Powder 30.00gn. shot  20.55 gram

Lyavale Hunting Steel .                 32gram.   No 4 shot.  Powder 30.06gn. Shot  19.69 gram

For reference a lead shot cartridge

Proper Cartrides .                           32gram.   No 6 lead shot. Powder 21.40gn lead shot 31.92 gram

None of the powders resemble Alliant steel which tends to be black granular they tend to green square in shape.

The steel menus powder weights are as follows38,37.50,34.00,34.50 and 43.00

From an engineering prospective I understand that the shot needs to be contained in the wad cup during its passage up the barrel and steel is not as dense as lead so is that why the weight is light. 

Is it safe to find a shot  load that just fills the wad and stick with that ? 

Go for a mid range powder weight of 35gn of Alliant

Dear Aunty Marge I hope you can help?

Im confused...the steel shells you cut open,  32g No4 &5 shot only had an average of 20g of shot in them? Or have I got the brown smelly end of the stick?

[pigeon controller]

33 minutes ago, steve d said:

Im confused...the steel shells you cut open,  32g No4 &5 shot only had an average of 20g of shot in them? Or have I got the brown smelly end of the stick?

That is my exact problem the 32gram lead is 31.92grams but all the steel are around 20grams. So when you reload what weight should you use 20gram for a 32gram shell????

Are we all being conned as they are not 32gram shells 

[6.5x55SE]

29 minutes ago, pigeon controller said:

That is my exact problem the 32gram lead is 31.92grams but all the steel are around 20grams. So when you reload what weight should you use 20gram for a 32gram shell????

Are we all being conned as they are not 32gram shells 

I'd personally be taking those Steel cartridges back to where I'd bought them.

I've bought Steel shot cartridges for both 20 ga an 12 ga cut them undone to check wads powder etc but never found what you have but 31.9 - 32.2 eg is quite normal. I'll stand being corrected but being 10 - 12 grams of shot out I'd think is potentially dangerous .

Through experience I've also learned trying to copy a Factory cartridge is not a simple job. 

[motty]

First things first, PC. Have you used many steel shells before?

 

4 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

I load steel in heavy loads for geese. Because steel is less dense than lead it needs speed to kill cleanly so we never look to reduce our speed as we just end up wounding. I am looking for 1450 fps. You are looking for sub 1125fps. Look on Gamebore  site and see what speeds their steel loads generate. They are fast for a very good reason; they need to kill. I would not bother doing what you are trying. 

If you really intend to load then you must must must recognise the steel is far less forgiving than lead. Don't experiment. Get a recipe from Claygame and stick to it. Weigh the ingredients accurately and don't  guess by just filling the plastic shotcup. If I did that without my packers in the 10 bore shot cup I would be way over on shot weight with a significant increase in pressure and probably would not be posting this.

I think we would all prefer not to be reading your obituary on this site.

He could also perhaps use the correct bushings so that he does not need to weigh everything out every time.

It is obvious that we need some speed with ANY load, but it need not be too fast. Around 1300 fps would be a decent starting point.

[pigeon controller]

7 hours ago, motty said:

First things first, PC. Have you used many steel shells before?

 

He could also perhaps use the correct bushings so that he does not need to weigh everything out every time.

It is obvious that we need some speed with ANY load, but it need not be too fast. Around 1300 fps would be a decent starting point.

Hi Motty, I ' ve been using steel for approx three months and found the factory loads to be very effective. I agree that it was my intention to use a bush as you suggest . On the Clay and Game sheet the projectile weight is 32 grams with a charge of 37.5grs so I intended to set the adjustable charge bare to deliver that amount or select a bush that gave us a slightly lighter amount, whichever machine I use.

Originally the cost of steel shells was expensive with reloading being an option but we have found a supply of discounted Steel which may be more advantageous. 

As stated before I have time to reload but if I don't feel safe I may abandon the project.

Thanks for your and others feedback.

[Guest cookoff013]

Pigeon.

Buy a reloading book.

Then read it.

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

Pigeon.

Buy a reloading book.

Then read it.

I think you will find P C have got all the reading material required in one of his previous posts , just being cautious with his first attempt at reloading these particular cartridges .

[motty]

On ‎24‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 06:31, pigeon controller said:

Hi Motty, I ' ve been using steel for approx three months and found the factory loads to be very effective. I agree that it was my intention to use a bush as you suggest . On the Clay and Game sheet the projectile weight is 32 grams with a charge of 37.5grs so I intended to set the adjustable charge bare to deliver that amount or select a bush that gave us a slightly lighter amount, whichever machine I use.

Originally the cost of steel shells was expensive with reloading being an option but we have found a supply of discounted Steel which may be more advantageous. 

As stated before I have time to reload but if I don't feel safe I may abandon the project.

Thanks for your and others feedback.

I imagine you have been using Gamebore 32gm 4, or something similar. I found those to be very effective to 50 yards or so. I see no reason why you couldn't produce something similar for a decent price. That would mean steering clear of Alliant Steel - it is too expensive to create cheap loads. I'm sure you could find a better European alternative.

[pigeon controller]

1 hour ago, motty said:

I imagine you have been using Gamebore 32gm 4, or something similar. I found those to be very effective to 50 yards or so. I see no reason why you couldn't produce something similar for a decent price. That would mean steering clear of Alliant Steel - it is too expensive to create cheap loads. I'm sure you could find a better European alternative.

I've been using Lyavale hunting steel and they are very effective at range. If you come across a good recipe I would like to try. Pinfire on here set me up with the Alliant and wads Stella and lead shot for subsonics . But he has left me in the lurch as he does not load steel that is why I cut them open to find the loads on the original post. 

[motty]

Just now, pigeon controller said:

I've been using Lyavale hunting steel and they are very effective at range. If you come across a good recipe I would like to try. Pinfire on here set me up with the Alliant and wads Stella and lead shot for subsonics . But he has left me in the lurch as he does not load steel that is why I cut them open to find the loads on the original post. 

I also found the Express pretty good.

Unfortunately, Alliant steel is not cost effective. I will try to find a recipe that will cost far less. I'm sure that someone on the forum can help.

Your 32 gm loads should have exactly that in them!

As steel is not as dense as lead (around 7.8gm per cc as opposed to lead's 11.3) you will get more pellets per ounce. You could cut down on cost a little by loading up an ounce of steel 4/5 and still produce a good killing cartridge.

How much were your Express cartridges?