Alarms.... over 6 guns

[wildfowl]

I’ve currently got 6 shotguns and moving in to FAC rifles, at FAC application the FEO has said he thinks I will need an alarm for more than 6 guns.

Tbh it’s not the end of the world however I’ve a seriously heavy gun safe that can hold 12 guns and it’s located within a central part of the house within its own cupboard with a locked door and 24 inch thick stone walls.

anyone else had experience of this? A mate of mine had 11 guns and no alarm

 

 

[Guest stevo]

Ask him to confirm it in writing, it sounds more like his personal opinion which has no place. You are responsible for your security and you alone mucker . 

And I think your about to get a lot of replies from people that have a lot more than you have and are not alarmed up .

 

[ClemFandango]

18 minutes ago, stevo said:

Ask him to confirm it in writing, it sounds more like his personal opinion which has no place. You are responsible for your security and you alone mucker . 

And I think your about to get a lot of replies from people that have a lot more than you have and are not alarmed up .

 

I'm one of them people. 

[Old farrier]

Had the same Its there interpretation of the Home Office guidelines 

just ask exactly what he wants and then get one to higher specifications 

after that there’s no debate 

i am assuming that you’re living in a high crime area 

All the best 

of 

[seeker]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-handbook-2005

Firearms Security Handbook

There's mention of "a substantial number of guns" and 'Levels of security' in here.

I'd ask for a sight of the risk assessment he's completed .... "Just so you can make a judgement for your own safety too !!"

[bruno22rf]

You can get a wireless system for about £50 with a couple of extra PIR's - this made my FEO happy and ultimately has to be a wise investment.

[stagboy]

Never seen the point of an alarm in a deeply rural area - who is around to hear it? At my last renewal, my FEO read it on his checklist, then said "there's no point here, is there" and crossed it off. The only alarm worth considering would be one of those v expensive systems that alert a police station - but even then, my nearest police station is 40 mins away.

[wildfowl]

Yes forgot that bit....

im in a very rural area and very low crime rate, I work from home and have a dog that barks when anyone gets within 100metres

[Old farrier]

5 minutes ago, wildfowl said:

Yes forgot that bit....

im in a very rural area and very low crime rate, I work from home and have a dog that barks when anyone gets within 100metres

And when you’re out with the dog and you’re gun? 

[stagboy]

Some colleagues decided to get rid of their expensive alarm system in an urban office. Before they did, they asked their insurance company whether doing so would affect their premium. Not a bit, came the answer.

I think a burglar might be put off by a dog. But an alarm that nobody nearby can hear, or will react to? Doubtful.

[walshie]

Another FEO interpreting guidance instead of understanding it. 

[wildfowl]

That really was my original question, am I legally needing to put in an alarm or is it just guidance?

at the end of the day I may sell this house in 1-2 years and don’t want to put in an expensive alarm if I don’t have to

i appreciate the views for and against but I was trying to gauge if others ran into this issue and managed to work a way around it without upsetting FEO

[Dekers]

1 hour ago, wildfowl said:

I’ve currently got 6 shotguns and moving in to FAC rifles, at FAC application the FEO has said he thinks I will need an alarm for more than 6 guns.

Tbh it’s not the end of the world however I’ve a seriously heavy gun safe that can hold 12 guns and it’s located within a central part of the house within its own cupboard with a locked door and 24 inch thick stone walls.

anyone else had experience of this? A mate of mine had 11 guns and no alarm

 

 

The Security Guidance is quite clear over 6 guns and also over 12 guns.   Worth a read and makes some sense, but it is GUIDANCE and other factors may well come into play.

[Dekers]

11 minutes ago, wildfowl said:

That really was my original question, am I legally needing to put in an alarm or is it just guidance?

at the end of the day I may sell this house in 1-2 years and don’t want to put in an expensive alarm if I don’t have to

i appreciate the views for and against but I was trying to gauge if others ran into this issue and managed to work a way around it without upsetting FEO

There is little or nothing LEGALLY making you put in an alarm, but if he wants to follow the Guidance and you refuse you will simply not get your FAC.

It is down to what your FEO/Region want when you get to 6 guns.   They can put a case following the Guidance simply by the number of guns, but that alone is unlikely to stand up, if other potential risk factors come into play they have a stronger case.

If you wish to debate the matter with him and think you have a stronger case then there is nothing to stop you.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Dekers

[panoma1]

Who knows? The police via the FEO seem to ignore HO guidence and make the rules up to suit themselves and/or a police agenda!

 

 

 

[Dave at kelton]

I am one of those and had no problem with my fao when i moved forces but now have an alarm in place for peace of mind. As has been said have a look at the guidance and decide how you want to play it.

[TriBsa]

Has the FEO actually come out for your FAC interview, or have you just talked over the phone and only mentioned applying for a FAC?

In the Guidance Notes 6-10 firearms will usually be satisfied with Level 1 security which you seem to have. The rider being unless "their potential danger if misused and their likely attractiveness to criminal" warrants greater security. I can't see FAC air rifles falling into that.

 

 

[Green hornet]

Met Police told me over 12 guns needed an alarm.When I did reach over 12 they was more then happy with one of those alarms u can fit yourself that texts or calls you if set off.

[stagboy]

20 minutes ago, Green hornet said:

that texts or calls you if set off.

So it's a sort of "hello, you have been burgled" notification.  Fair enough if that keeps the police happy... but that's its only use, as far as I can see. Alarms don't stop you being burgled. They simply tell you when the deed has happened. The utility of that rather depends on how rapidly you - or somebody else- can get there. If it isn't within just a few mins, then there is no real point. All it does is annoy the neighbours. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by stagboy
clarity

[Dekers]

1 minute ago, stagboy said:

So it's a sort of "hello, you have been burgled" notification.  Fair enough if that keeps the police happy... but that's its only use, as far as I can see.

You can argue all day about the usefulness or otherwise of an Alarm System, or even a fully monitored Alarm System.

It is a means to an end for keeping multiple guns for some and a hoop people have to jump through to keep their region happy.

[stagboy]

Yes, I can see that. Mind you, I do think CCTV is potentially very useful, both for deterrence and also for evidence gathering, depending on the setup. 

[Scully]

I think a lot is dependant on your FEO. I live very rurally and have more than the aforementioned number but my FEO never mentioned an alarm. 

 An alarm may scare off would be intruders and certainly make the neighbours aware, so maybe I should consider it anyhow. Linking it to police would be fruitless however due to response times around here. 

[panoma1]

The conditions some FEO's try to introduce, bring the whole process into disrepute, for example, "you can't keep seven guns in a five gun cabinet".....errrrr why?.........If seven guns can be fitted and secured into a cabinet , they are just as safe and secure as if it held five guns!

 

[Zetter]

To be fair when I went for initial grant the FEO seemed to prefer me having a big gobby dog as opposed to an alarm. 

[Scully]

39 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The conditions some FEO's try to introduce, bring the whole process into disrepute, for example, "you can't keep seven guns in a five gun cabinet".....errrrr why?.........If seven guns can be fitted and secured into a cabinet , they are just as safe and secure as if it held five guns!

 

I can’t grasp the logic either, no more so than them insisting alarms are fitted when a certain number of guns is attained. I could understand it if ALL licensees were obliged to fit security regardless of the number of guns held.