Side by Side Club

[Old Boggy]

8 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have a Darne, and it is very well engineered and beautifully made, but inconvenient and slow to operate.

Totally agree, John, I have used my pal Stourboy's 16g Darne and the engineering is first class, lovely to shoot, but getting the hang of the sliding breech is an art that I just wouldn't have the time left to fully master. An aberration in my opinion.

OB

[Blackpowder]

14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

There was a thing like that called a "Baby Bretton" that was French and was very very light (also cheap and I suspect poorly made).  Never became popular and I only saw one.

I may have described it wrong John but it was not like that, it was more like the top part of the action slid back, its a long time ago now!   Chap in our club had a Baby Breton, kicked like a mule as I recall.

 

Blackpowder

[wymberley]

On 19/04/2019 at 09:39, Gunman said:

On Webley guns ,the number in the back bite was struck by the " Freer" .This was the man who after the gun was built , the action and all the parts were hardened , had the job of putting it all together setting the trigger pulls and generally seeing that the gun was on face correct tightness of action and forend and that the ejection timed .Occasionally having to replace components if required .It was  perhaps one of the most complex jobs on the shop as it needed knowledge of all the previous stages of building . 

The barrels and parts  were then blacked and it was passed on to the "finishers" for final assembly , the  stock put on and polished/buffed  prior to dispatch to customer .

Apart from the barrel filers the freer was the only person to put a mark on the gun and if there was any subsequent problem the gun came back to him for correction .

I cant honestly remember if I used and 8 or a 9 before moving on to a B as it was my job between mid 1974 and late 1977 when I left so it could have been mine . However  there is an 85 percent chance I had some hand in building this particular gun .

 

Graham .

 

 

Gunman, could you kindly help? I can't see any stamp on the rear bite of my 700. However, on the outer rear edge of the barrel flats and on the LH barrel side, I have a 'Mercedes Benz' emblem which is stamped 'A' and 'B' at the top left and right and '6' below. It's a '74 vintage. I haven't a clue to what that relates.

[Gunman]

Its the proof date stamp This mark superseded the previous crossed pike emblem and was used from 1 Jan 1975 to 31 Dec 1984 . They started wit A B the 6 being the viewers number and ended K B . After 1 Jan 1985 the proof could be marked in either metric or imperial and the mark reverted to crossed pikes .

This will make your gun 1975 proof .

 

 

 

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Gunman said:

Its the proof date stamp This mark superseded the previous crossed pike emblem and was used from 1 Jan 1975 to 31 Dec 1984 . They started wit A B the 6 being the viewers number and ended K B . After 1 Jan 1985 the proof could be marked in either metric or imperial and the mark reverted to crossed pikes .

This will make your gun 1975 proof .

 

 

 

Thank you very much indeed. Was actually looking for your "autograph" as above, but didn't find it.

[Dave at kelton]

11 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Totally agree, John, I have used my pal Stourboy's 16g Darne and the engineering is first class, lovely to shoot, but getting the hang of the sliding breech is an art that I just wouldn't have the time left to fully master. An aberration in my opinion.

OB

Might be an aberration on such a modern gun but look back at Charles Lancaster, tip and tilt action. I have one and shoot it occasionally and it is a super bit of engineering.

[Pigeon Shredder.]

Just been reading a report on the new 2019 CZ Bobwhite, 20,28,12 gauge on ammoland .com, nice looking shotgun for the American market only it would seem.

[Old Boggy]

14 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Might be an aberration on such a modern gun but look back at Charles Lancaster, tip and tilt action. I have one and shoot it occasionally and it is a super bit of engineering.

Dave,

I didn't mean that in a derogatory way as I think any variation from the norm makes an interesting gun. The Lancaster 'tip & tilt', is that the one that has a rotary underlever and the barrels move forward slightly before dropping down ?

Have you posted a picture of it on here ? Would be interested to see a photo as it must be pretty rare.

Have you any other gems like that ?

OB

 

[AYA117]

Interesting if you like AYAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehXemjkWpvs

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, AYA117 said:

Interesting if you like AYAs

Thanks for the link. I have seen a number of similar youtube video`s for Hollands, Purdey etc but not seen that one.

[Gunman]

Interesting . Having worked in the Birmingham gun trade , 9 years at Webley and Scott I recognize and feel an affinity with these guys but at the same time see them using different techniques to archive the same results . The checkering tools used and the way they put their barrels together .

 

[Dave at kelton]

On 21/04/2019 at 07:52, Old Boggy said:

Dave,

I didn't mean that in a derogatory way as I think any variation from the norm makes an interesting gun. The Lancaster 'tip & tilt', is that the one that has a rotary underlever and the barrels move forward slightly before dropping down ?

Have you posted a picture of it on here ? Would be interested to see a photo as it must be pretty rare.

Have you any other gems like that ?

OB

 

Didn’t read it that way at all and just about to post some pics

[Dave at kelton]

At the request of OB here are photos of my Charles Lancaster continuing the theme of barrels that slide forward to load. You will note that the barrels are cammed forward before tipping in the usual way. It all feels a little loose when open but locks tight and shoots as good as ever.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Dave at kelton

[Old Boggy]

59 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

At the request of OB here are photos of my Charles Lancaster continuing the theme of barrels that slide forward to load. You will note that the barrels are cammed forward before tipping in the usual way. It all feels a little loose when open but locks tight and shoots as good as ever.

Many thanks for posting the photos Dave. That's got to be unique. Is that some sort of cocking indicator on the standing breech ?

Also love the pin fire in the bottom photo.

Many thanks for sharing.

OB

[Gunman]

Afraid you have mistaken bottom photo, its a percussion muzzle loader .

Have to look it up but didn't Crudgington and Baker show that the so called patent on this gun was  suspect , as in Lancaster bought the rights not invented ? 

[Dave at kelton]

31 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Afraid you have mistaken bottom photo, its a percussion muzzle loader .

Have to look it up but didn't Crudgington and Baker show that the so called patent on this gun was  suspect , as in Lancaster bought the rights not invented ? 

Apologies all not sure why two posts appeared, my mistake. Irrespective of patent provenance it still amazing engineering. Not unique and a few turn up from time to time.

The bottom photo is a Charles Lancaster percussion gun and here is one of his side levers

[Old Boggy]

3 hours ago, Gunman said:

Afraid you have mistaken bottom photo, its a percussion muzzle loader .

Have to look it up but didn't Crudgington and Baker show that the so called patent on this gun was  suspect , as in Lancaster bought the rights not invented ? 

 

3 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Apologies all not sure why two posts appeared, my mistake. Irrespective of patent provenance it still amazing engineering. Not unique and a few turn up from time to time.

The bottom photo is a Charles Lancaster percussion gun and here is one of his side levers

Sorry my mistake. 

Thanks for correcting me.

OB

[Cobbers]

Picked up this rather nice Victor Sarasqueta non ejector today. Shoots sweets but can’t find much info on it? 

 

Any ideas on model number? Age etc? 

Thanks! 👍🏻

[Cobbers]

[matone]

16 minutes ago, Cobbers said:

Model 4 for a guess ,what is the serial number?

[Cobbers]

7 minutes ago, matone said:

Model 4 for a guess ,what is the serial number?

I believe it is 23349 either an 6 or an 8 at the end 

[matone]

Mid /late70`s I`d say. 219*** was 1973.

Hth

Edited May 4, 2019 by matone

[Cobbers]

👍🏻 Thank you 

[London Best]

Been reading this forum about a year and find side by side club the most interesting part. I started shooting in 1960 and I only have side by side guns. I like short barrels, two triggers and straight hand stocks for preference. Currently own:

L.I.G 12b, boxlock ejector, cheap and nasty, bought new in 1975 to save wrecking a beautiful Derby Rosson on the coast. The checkering is beginning to wear off!

Ugartechea 12b, sidelock ejector built in 1961, fairly recent acquisition, may replace the Lig.

Army & Navy .410, boxlock non ejector, built about 1900, restocked by Frank Wiseman for me when purchased in 1981.

W. Richards, Liverpool, .410, back action hammer gun, recent acquisition, bought new in 1902.

Armstrong, Newcastle, 20b, sidelock non ejector.

Ward, Birmingham, 12b back action hammer gun, rebounding locks, Jones underlever, twist barrels, pre 1875 black powder proof. A cheap gun in the 1870’s, not improved with age!

John Dickson and Sons, Edinburgh, 12b, bar action hammer gun, non rebounding locks, fine Damascus barrels, Jones underlever, pre 1868 black powder proof, left Dickson’s in 1865.

Holland and Holland, 12b, Royal Brevis, sidelock ejector, hand detachable locks, self opener, built in 1930. Purchased in 2012 and since used for all my driven game shooting.

[MrPhantom]

Nice collection, would love to see the H&H. Any chance of putting some pictures up?