So, what do you reckon?

[Guerini Guy]

Took a day out today to have a drive round the perms. Apart from the rubbish wet weather we have endured here, I have also been unwell and spent some time in hospital, so I haven't been round the perms for at least three and a half months.

Haven't missed much as the perms I have are nearly all full of wheat right now, with just a couple small areas of rape.

So, me and the trusty Jeep set off to a very large permission which has a drive track all the way round, and was dry enough to drive on today. Just having a check around to be honest as its all wheat, approx 8-9 inches tall now, and of no interest to pigeons. Still get some strong flight lines across to other areas though. From a gap in the extensive hedgerow, I spied the farmer on an adjacent field where I do not have permission, and he was drilling. I pulled up with a view to having a chat, and sure enough he walked over.

However, he was quite abrupt and asked what I was doing. I told him I hadn't been around for a while and was having a drive round looking for pigeon flight lines, and that his newly drilled fields could pull a lot of pigeons across my permission. He promptly and abruptly clearly stated that pigeons would have no interest in the fields on my permission, and therefore creating no damage to crops. and that under the general licence I therefore had no right to shoot them.

I explained that in my opinion, ANY pigeon would have been feeding and damaging crops somewhere, and I felt that they were legitimate to be shot on that basis. He strongly corrected me and said that was not the case and that I should be careful to act within the law.

I said that we should agree to differ and that I had no desire to argue or debate the matter further. To be honest, his strong attitude made me doubt myself anyway and therefore, not wishing to cause any possible awkwardness with my own perm farmer,  I duly doffed my cap in the most impressive grovelling and subservient manner, bid him gooday, shoved the old girl into "Drive" and meandered off to enjoy my drive round the perm, eventually driving off to where I happily plucked a few out of the air on the edges of the small rape field on a different permission.

Now I know that opening this up for discussion and debate will receive comments from both ends of the argument so, despite also being sure this topic will have been discussed before, I will put on my tin hat and await to receive the knowledge?

In that vein of thought, I have to then consider how many of us enjoy, nay even drool, at the prospect of shooting stubble after the harvest, plus I have read many accounts of members enjoying "flight lining" pigeons. So as the stubble is effectively crop waste and would therefore not be considered as being "damaged" by pigeons, and as flight lining involves shooting pigeons where you cannot necessarily confirm that they have been, or are even intending to, damage the crops on your perm, but merely flying over it, using the farmer's argument, would that not then make both of those activities illegal?

I sit back and wait with interest.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Guerini Guy

[JDog]

Sorry that you ran into such a strong minded individual. However he was almost certainly correct in what he told you.

Edited April 20, 2018 by JDog

[walshie]

I agree the other bloke was right. Shooting pigeons because they were probably feeding and damaging crops elsewhere isn't complying with the GL. 

[Delwint]

So on that premise, when people roost shoot, that’s surely contravening the GL too

[motty]

Shooting pigeons in an arable environment will certainly be protecting crops. Pigeons do not have to be causing damage at the time they are killed, so as to comply with the general license.

[sako751sg]

You are fine.

You can be shooting them to prevent damage they may cause.

[Ultrastu]

Thing is if you exprapolate the farmers logic .you would have to wait till a pigeon landed on your chosen precious crop .watched him peck at the stalk (not any wind fall ) and be sure he swallowed the grain before you could be sure that the blighter was indeed eating the crop .

Then shoot him .and then check how much he had eaten .repeat for each bird .

Nonsense me thinks .

If the birds are flying over your crop or the adjacent crop field .then crack on .

Roost shooting though ? Not so sure .

[Guerini Guy]

Thanks for your replies so far and, as I expected, there are comments from both ends of the debate.

I note the comment regarding roost shooting as well, but nobody has specifically responded regarding shooting over stubble which can be the "holy grail" for some pigeon shooters?

Would just appreciate more thoughts on this?

[sako751sg]

No thoughts needed really.

It's above board because that pigeons at some time probably will be causing damage.

If I remember rightly it was cleared up a few years ago when the use of decoys was questioned.

[fse10]

You are fine to shoot them flighting over your perm, as they will be doing damage else where. Did you not ask the farmer who was drilling if he wanted his newly drilled crop protecting .

[Terry2016]

The woodpigeon was allocated under the general licence due to the number increasing year on year when oil seed rape was introduced, giving woodpigeon food all year round, thus meaning the birds numbers did not reduce from hunger during the winter months.

Shooting woodpigeon all year round and on stubble is to reduce the numbers and damage that will be caused, the very same as roost shooting. 

If you read the GL then the farmer is correct it cannot be denied however woodpigeons gain the majority of their food from crops (unless in trafalgar square I assume) therefore no prosecution would ever come of this.

Also as you stated to the farmer his drill would pull pigeons across your permission that you intended to shoot therefore you are shooting pigeons that are doing damage to crops,(they do not have to be your farmers crops) It is never the farmer that gives permission to shoot the woodpigeon he only gives you permission to shoot on his land. therefore you shooting the flight line or roosting wood is perfectly legal and adequate under the GL.

atb

Terry

[walshie]

I doubt anyone would ever be prosecuted for it, but I really can't see shooting pigeons because they are probably causing damage elsewhere is within the GL if you take it word for word.

That would mean I can shoot them in my garden because they have probably eaten someone's crop at some time.  As most pigeons could be classed as "guilty" of this,  they wouldn't need to be on the GL, it could be shoot on sight.

I still think the other bloke although probably taking it too literally is correct. 

[Cranfield]

On 20/04/2018 at 22:25, motty said:

Shooting pigeons in an arable environment will certainly be protecting crops. Pigeons do not have to be causing damage at the time they are killed, so as to comply with the general license.

Thats my interpretation of the General Licence conditions.

 

[Guerini Guy]

On 4/21/2018 at 11:36, fse10 said:

You are fine to shoot them flighting over your perm, as they will be doing damage else where. Did you not ask the farmer who was drilling if he wanted his newly drilled crop protecting .

I certainly did, or at least suggested that my shooting of pigeons on my perm could still help to protect his drillings and crops, but he simply stated that he had this own shooters to deal with those problems?

Nice of him to be so damned smug, but I have been shooting that perm for 3 1/2 years, and only twice seen or heard anybody shooting on his land . . . . . go figure?

[ClemFandango]

On 21/04/2018 at 13:14, walshie said:

I doubt anyone would ever be prosecuted for it, but I really can't see shooting pigeons because they are probably causing damage elsewhere is within the GL if you take it word for word.

That would mean I can shoot them in my garden because they have probably eaten someone's crop at some time.  As most pigeons could be classed as "guilty" of this,  they wouldn't need to be on the GL, it could be shoot on sight.

I still think the other bloke although probably taking it too literally is correct. 

This. 

 

[Scully]

I shoot them wherever I get the opportunity...in fields, woods and gardens. 

[rheth]

if memory serves me correct shooting pigeons is done as a last resort after all other methods have been tried and failed the farmer may be correct but has he and his shooters followed the letter of the law or does he see pigeons and phone shooters?