Brexit - merged threads

[panoma1]

The UK was fine before we were conned into the EU, why would anyone think it won't be when we leave?...............Like a relationship break-up make a clean break, give nothing you don't need to, take what your entitled to........move on.....and don't look back!

That's the Brexit I voted for!

Edited July 13, 2018 by panoma1

[oowee]

13 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

And then we get to the worst of it, Funding other Countries with UK TAX payer's money, why should the UK TAX payer pay for other Countries to become more successful and then also have to take their workers? Workers in the most that have no intention of bettering the UK, only their bank balance, at the expense of the UK working class.

We had surplus funding from the EU in the earlier years. I personally agreed spending of over £50m in the Black Country, tackling unemployment and contaminated land. At the same time many workers went to work in Europe (particularly Germany, remember auf wiedersehen pet?) to improve their own bank balance.  As other countries infrastructure improves through EU payments the economic climate improves and the movement of labour evens out.

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

My mind is clear. Brexit here we come. We don't want a trade deal with the US if we have to take their farm products. Trump is not for me. Couldn't be clearer.

Maybe you boys should make up your minds?

But brexit isn't coming, you can't say your leaving a club only to continue to be bound by the rules of the club that you've decided to leave, to try and argue otherwise is simply not being faithful to the referendum result, it really is that simple.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

But brexit isn't coming, you can't say your leaving a club only to continue to be bound by the rules of the club that you've decided to leave, to try and argue otherwise is simply not being faithful to the referendum result, it really is that simple.

We voted to leave and we are leaving. Simple's.

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

We had surplus funding from the EU in the earlier years. I personally agreed spending of over £50m in the Black Country, tackling unemployment and contaminated land. At the same time many workers went to work in Europe (particularly Germany, remember auf wiedersehen pet?) to improve their own bank balance.  As other countries infrastructure improves through EU payments the economic climate improves and the movement of labour evens out.

Well that's okay then, we'll just shaft the young of today by burdening them with the cost of dragging third world countrys up to our standard while dragging us back down to theirs, that makes perfect sense.

Just now, oowee said:

We voted to leave and we are leaving. Simple's.

So you agree as long as we leave in name and not the spirit of the referendum that's fine?

[Newbie to this]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

We had surplus funding from the EU in the earlier years. I personally agreed spending of over £50m in the Black Country, tackling unemployment and contaminated land. At the same time many workers went to work in Europe (particularly Germany, remember auf wiedersehen pet?) to improve their own bank balance.  As other countries infrastructure improves through EU payments the economic climate improves and the movement of labour evens out.

EU funding?

You mean they gave us our own money back and told us where to spend it.

And a few Geordies going to Germany is hardly the same as the mass influx of un-skilled/semi skilled labour from the EU entering the UK. Which has caused wages to stagnate or go down and everything else to rise.

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

My mind is clear. Brexit here we come.

Then why  keep sniping with the sarcastic comments ?
If you are truly accepting, resign yourself to what could be a bumpy ride for a while.
Ultimately resulting in a good thing for this country.
We can do very well without being part of the bloc, a fool can see that.
Hopefully when the EUs inevitable collapse occurs , we can be detached enough and clear of the blast zone, to prevent too much damage to ourselves.
Because if anything has become apparent from Brexit, its the simple fact that the EU is doomed.

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well that's okay then, we'll just shaft the young of today by burdening them with the cost of dragging third world countrys up to our standard while dragging us back down to theirs, that makes perfect sense.

So you agree as long as we leave in name and not the spirit of the referendum that's fine?

There was no spirit in the lying (on both sides) there was a referendum leave or stay we voted leave suck it up and get used to it. 

 

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Then why  keep sniping with the sarcastic comments ?
If you are truly accepting, resign yourself to what could be a bumpy ride for a while.
Ultimately resulting in a good thing for this country.
We can do very well without being part of the bloc, a fool can see that.
Hopefully when the EUs inevitable collapse occurs , we can be detached enough and clear of the blast zone, to prevent too much damage to ourselves.
Because if anything has become apparent from Brexit, its the simple fact that the EU is doomed.

No sarcasm intended just my opinion. I accept it will be rocky ride rather than bumpy. I see no evidence as to why we would be better off. Hopefully when the EU remodels we can be part of it again. 

[yod dropper]

To me eye you're being deliberately provocative Oowee which I find a little disappointing.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Hopefully when the EU remodels we can be part of it again. 

Quote

We voted to leave and we are leaving. Simple's.

Oh dear.

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

No sarcasm intended just my opinion. I accept it will be rocky ride rather than bumpy. I see no evidence as to why we would be better off. Hopefully when the EU remodels we can be part of it again. 

It could remodel itself by insisting its leader remains sober during official engagements for starters.
But apart from that ,  hell will probably freeze over first..

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

To me eye you're being deliberately provocative Oowee which I find a little disappointing.

Surely not? I find it a little disappointing we are where we are but that's democracy for you. 

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

It could remodel itself by insisting its leader remains sober during official engagements for starters.
But apart from that ,  hell will probably freeze over first..

I am up for that (not hell freezing over of course). Some of the people that run the thing need an off switch or at least a reset button pressing. 

[panoma1]

36 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely not? I find it a little disappointing we are where we are but that's democracy for you. 

That's not democracy!..........It's remainers trying to usurp democracy!

The country decided democratically by a simple majority to leave the EU....no half measures, no soft Brexit nor part withdrawal, anyone who works to water down and undermine that democratic decision is in my eyes a traitor! Simples!

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

We had surplus funding from the EU in the earlier years. I personally agreed spending of over £50m in the Black Country, tackling unemployment and contaminated land. At the same time many workers went to work in Europe (particularly Germany, remember auf wiedersehen pet?) to improve their own bank balance.  As other countries infrastructure improves through EU payments the economic climate improves and the movement of labour evens out.

As far as British workers going abroad is concerned its skilled workers working away from home earning good money.

The workers coming our way are far from skilled, the best comment I've heard from a manager was calling foreign workers "2 for 1s" two of them for one of me plus they'll do as there told, work unbelievable hours and have no idea of H&S, it keeps wages down.

But oowee at least you are sticking to your guns.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

EU funding?

You mean they gave us our own money back and told us where to spend it.

The key thing in the early days was that it was a common market - between countries with broadly similar economies; Germany was an industrial leader, UK a services leader, only Italy was a little suspect. 

Owing to the megalomaniac tendencies of the leaders, and the desire for subsidies from the 'economically less advanced' countries has changed it beyond all recognition, and I cannot see how it can be sustainable in the long run.

You also cannot realistically have common product rules/specifications, and regulations across so many diverse economies, geographies, climate regions, economic regions and social aspirations/cultures; it simply cannot work.

[oowee]

21 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The key thing in the early days was that it was a common market - between countries with broadly similar economies; Germany was an industrial leader, UK a services leader, only Italy was a little suspect. 

Owing to the megalomaniac tendencies of the leaders, and the desire for subsidies from the 'economically less advanced' countries has changed it beyond all recognition, and I cannot see how it can be sustainable in the long run.

You also cannot realistically have common product rules/specifications, and regulations across so many diverse economies, geographies, climate regions, economic regions and social aspirations/cultures; it simply cannot work.

I hear what you are saying but that is the way this country works. The better off subsidise the less well off. We all get to share the cake. The South subsidises the North the rich subsidise the poor. It's surely what advanced economies are all about. 

 

35 minutes ago, Mice! said:

As far as British workers going abroad is concerned its skilled workers working away from home earning good money.

The workers coming our way are far from skilled, the best comment I've heard from a manager was calling foreign workers "2 for 1s" two of them for one of me plus they'll do as there told, work unbelievable hours and have no idea of H&S, it keeps wages down.

But oowee at least you are sticking to your guns.

With open market borders these low labour rate economies are the places that we will have to compete against. This will also keep wages down.  At least we are trying to enforce regulations but as you say if employers are breaking the rules we still have some way to go.

I don't believe it's just in the case of skilled workers as many of the farms I shoot on rely on full time unskilled migrant workers on good salaries as they cannot get a local workforce to fill the vacancies. I also worked on the John Lewis warehouse and car phone repair centres in Milton Keynes and both of those could not get many workers from the UK that would do the work. It's not right that we cannot get the people to take the vacancies there is something wrong with our social support mechanisms that allow this, compounded by our relatively poor educational attainment. I believe it's also true that we as a nation have become fat on the milk of our success. An issue for all advanced economies that ultimately reduces there competitive edge.

When my mates went to Germany in the late 70's early 80's they were working as unskilled mechanics and welders.

Surely you do as your told at work ? ? Not sure i always did ?

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

When my mates went to Germany in the late 70's early 80's they were working as unskilled mechanics and welders 

I'm puzzled.

They were welders and mechanics, but they were unskilled?

If they couldn't weld and spanner to any ability, what were they doing there, pretending to know what they were doing ?

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

I hear what you are saying but that is the way this country works. The better off subsidise the less well off. We all get to share the cake. The South subsidises the North the rich subsidise the poor. It's surely what advanced economies are all about.

On a country level, that is right and proper, but it has developed over 100's of years, along with a reasonably democratic system of running it.  To scale it up suddenly (over a couple of decades) to 27 countries with quite different whole cultures, languages, climates, aspirations cannot happen suddenly (in my view).

I think with us or without us, Europe is becoming unstable ......... because thay have tried to do things so many people don't want.

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I'm puzzled.

They were welders and mechanics, but they were unskilled?

If they couldn't weld and spanner to any ability, what were they doing there, pretending to know what they were doing ?

Yep. 

 

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

On a country level, that is right and proper, but it has developed over 100's of years, along with a reasonably democratic system of running it.  To scale it up suddenly (over a couple of decades) to 27 countries with quite different whole cultures, languages, climates, aspirations cannot happen suddenly (in my view).

I think with us or without us, Europe is becoming unstable ......... because thay have tried to do things so many people don't want.

I agree with this. 

Have to go foxing now catch up later.

[Mice!]

57 minutes ago, oowee said:

market borders these low labour rate economies are the places that we will have to compete against. This will also keep wages down.  At least we are trying to enforce regulations but as you say if employers are breaking the rules we still have some way to go.

I'm talking about this country not abroad.

And by doing as your told i mean "your working this weekend for time and a third" not do you want overtime, or doing things where i would say no chance its not safe.

When i was in Arbroath there were loads of eastern Europeans, they came over strawberry picking every year, they had  every sort of job imaginable, dentists picking fruit because it payed more?? They did this earned there money then went home.

happy shooting.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

There was no spirit in the lying (on both sides) there was a referendum leave or stay we voted leave suck it up and get used to it. 

 

 

Of course there's spirit to a referendum, it must be both legal and seen to be held fairly, if society isn't seen to be governed by a fair and just system there would be carnage and rioting on the streets, it'd make your worst vision of brexit look like paradise.

As for sucking up Brexit and us leaving, in my opinion it can't happen soon enough.

I get the impression oowee, that you are financialy invested in us remaining within the EU, maybe large investments at stake?

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I hear what you are saying but that is the way this country works. The better off subsidise the less well off. We all get to share the cake. The South subsidises the North the rich subsidise the poor. It's surely what advanced economies are all about. 

 

With open market borders these low labour rate economies are the places that we will have to compete against. This will also keep wages down.  At least we are trying to enforce regulations but as you say if employers are breaking the rules we still have some way to go.

I don't believe it's just in the case of skilled workers as many of the farms I shoot on rely on full time unskilled migrant workers on good salaries as they cannot get a local workforce to fill the vacancies. I also worked on the John Lewis warehouse and car phone repair centres in Milton Keynes and both of those could not get many workers from the UK that would do the work. It's not right that we cannot get the people to take the vacancies there is something wrong with our social support mechanisms that allow this, compounded by our relatively poor educational attainment. I believe it's also true that we as a nation have become fat on the milk of our success. An issue for all advanced economies that ultimately reduces there competitive edge.

When my mates went to Germany in the late 70's early 80's they were working as unskilled mechanics and welders.

Surely you do as your told at work ? ? Not sure i always did ?

I can't see how you compare people in this country subsidising others in the UK who are less well off, with the UK subsidising EU states. If you want to, by all means make some donations to whatever county's you want, but don't expect the rest of the UK to, the referendum was clear and people want to stop our money pouring into EU hands, I'll give you an example of why it's wrong, I recently went on holiday (I won't say where as I don't want to appear generally rude about another country or it's people, how people chose to live in their own country is obviously, or should be up to them) it's a very hot country and very beautiful, the indigenous populus there predominantly do causal work through choice, they are very laid back and tend to live on very little and enjoy their time in the sun, with very short working weeks, alot less than the UK for example, alot of people asked me what was happening with brexit as they are concerned, they get alot of subsidies from the EU and have alot of new roads and infrastructure paid for basicly by us and other richer country's, now why should the average Brit who works their socks off around the clock slaving away at their job, pay for other countries like that when the people aren't generally prepared to put the work and effort in, it would effectively turn the UK into a slave nation paying for other countries infrastructure?

[Jaymo]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I can't see how you compare people in this country subsidising others in the UK who are less well off, with the UK subsidising EU states. If you want to, by all means make some donations to whatever county's you want, but don't expect the rest of the UK to, the referendum was clear and people want to stop our money pouring into EU hands, I'll give you an example of why it's wrong, I recently went on holiday (I won't say where as I don't want to appear generally rude about another country or it's people, how people chose to live in their own country is obviously, or should be up to them) it's a very hot country and very beautiful, the indigenous populus there predominantly do causal work through choice, they are very laid back and tend to live on very little and enjoy their time in the sun, with very short working weeks, alot less than the UK for example, alot of people asked me what was happening with brexit as they are concerned, they get alot of subsidies from the EU and have alot of new roads and infrastructure paid for basicly by us and other richer country's, now why should the average Brit who works their socks off around the clock slaving away at their job, pay for other countries like that when the people aren't generally prepared to put the work and effort in, it would effectively turn the UK into a slave nation paying for other countries infrastructure?

Why stop whinging about subsidising the EU, surely you should be looking at all ‘Overseas Aid’ which is, or Is it not, greater than the contribution to the EU without the return of subsidies!!!! Such a blinkered ‘island’ mentality as they like to say here in the Country that I work.

Am sure I saw all you lot trying out for a part in the original Alf Garnet series........

 

 

[12gauge82]

21 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Why stop whinging about subsidising the EU, surely you should be looking at all ‘Overseas Aid’ which is, or Is it not, greater than the contribution to the EU without the return of subsidies!!!! Such a blinkered ‘island’ mentality as they like to say here in the Country that I work.

Am sure I saw all you lot trying out for a part in the original Alf Garnet series........

 

 

The little Europe mentality belongs to the remainers who won't accept the referendum result and won't let go of their safety blanket, your right forien aid should be sorted to, but one step at a time, although everyone knows alot of forien aid is really used as bribes.

[Bazooka Joe]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

My mind is clear. Brexit here we come. We don't want a trade deal with the US if we have to take their farm products. Trump is not for me. Couldn't be clearer.

Maybe you boys should make up your minds?

He is for me, I wish he was negotiating Brexit for us

Made up my mind today listening to Trump talk at Checkers, he made a lot of sense IMO. I hope the snowflake left chuck more spokes in the wheel, the 29th isn;t far way........I'm all for hard brexit what ever that means.....