Game days? How much is justifiable?

[Dibble]

7 hours ago, Old farrier said:

i wonder where we would be if there was more money in growing carrots and all the covers and copses were torn out for the growing of vegetables 

 

It has occurred to me that the more Vegans the more Pigeon and Rabbit shooting there will be.

I'm actually waiting for my chance to put this to the next Vegan who passes across my sights

[Old farrier]

2 minutes ago, Dibble said:

It has occurred to me that the more Vegans the more Pigeon and Rabbit shooting there will be.

I'm actually waiting for my chance to put this to the next Vegan who passes across my sights

Are you sure ? 

Farming has changed here 1000 acres of cauliflower and they won’t have a shot gun near it 

to frightened of a pellet in the plant and the crops being condemned 

[Dibble]

Just now, Old farrier said:

Are you sure ? 

Farming has changed here 1000 acres of cauliflower and they won’t have a shot gun near it 

to frightened of a pellet in the plant and the crops being condemned 

No not sure but been taunting Vegetarians since my sister took it up in 1982 and they never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

On a more serious note the farm with the cauliflowers is benefiting from neighbours  controlling pests, if everyone bans shooting numbers will rise. In a similar vein Organic farms can benefit from being an isolated island set in a  chemical sea.

[scolopax]

8 hours ago, Nmb said:

I don’t know whether I would like to shoot a 500 bird day but being a sad person id love to see that many birds flying over the guns and to see from the beaters perspective what the drives looks like and how they manage to get flush after flush. 

I wonder how many birds some of these places put down? I remember asking the owner of a fairly big estate up here and all he said was “enough”!

100,000 is not unheard of.   By they are catered for, my local big commercial has hundreds of acres of dedicated cover crops, which benefits not just the game but all the other songbirds etc. Its not all rosey but there are some enviromental benefits.

 

[Perazzishot]

Think this way though. 100 Bird Day. 9 guns. 5 drives.

You get to kill 2 birds a drive! 

With all the experts on here saying you should be shooting at less than 2:1 thats 4 shots a drive. 20 shots for the day!

400 high bird shoot 9 guns average shot count 2700-3000 is 300 shots per person per day.

 

I think what Scully says is true, each to there own!

Big shoots however have the best game collection service in place to my knowledge, the farm shoots relying on beaters and guns taking the shot game are the concern I'm afraid!

[JohnfromUK]

23 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Think this way though. 100 Bird Day. 9 guns. 5 drives.

You get to kill 2 birds a drive! 

With all the experts on here saying you should be shooting at less than 2:1 thats 4 shots a drive. 20 shots for the day!

400 high bird shoot 9 guns average shot count 2700-3000 is 300 shots per person per day.

I don't manage 2:1 very often (i.e. probably never).  Typical day for me I fire about 20 - 40 cartridges - sometimes none on a drive, other times maybe 8 or 10.

I have taken part in big days in the past (and simulated days).  I find I have had plenty (even on simulated days) after maybe 100-150 shots.

[Walker570]

When Craig at Thimbleby briefs the shooting team, before we set out he always says "Shoot what you enjoy and be safe" and I think that is the crux of the matter.  As I have said I only shoot on 80 to 130 bird days and to say you need a 200 bird day to be able to select what you want to shoot is not true because unless your a greedy whatsit, then like me in order not to be going home after the second drive you tend to pick your birds very carefully and on two occasions when partridge shooting this last October at Worlaby I stopped shooting and put my gun in the sleave before the drive ended.  I had six tremendous birds on the very first drive and decided that was enough on that drive when I could probably have shot another dozen at least as birds poured over us and enjoyed watching my friends shoot.  It really isn't all about killing things.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Walker570

[Perazzishot]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

When Craig at Thimbleby briefs the shooting team, before we set out he always says "Shoot what you enjoy and be safe" and I think that is the crux of the matter.  As I have said I only shoot on 80 to 130 bird days and to say you need a 200 bird day to be able to select what you want to shoot is not true because unless your a greedy whatsit, then like me in order not to be going home after the second drive you tend to pick your birds very carefully and on two occasions when partridge shooting this last October at Worlaby I stopped shooting and put my gun in the sleave before the drive ended.  I had six tremendous birds on the very first drive and decided that was enough on that drive when I could probably have shot another dozen at least as birds poured over us and enjoyed watching my friends shoot.  It really isn't all about killing things.

I very often finish a drive with my gun already in the slip. watching others!

 

[sabel25]

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

Think this way though. 100 Bird Day. 9 guns. 5 drives.

You get to kill 2 birds a drive! 

With all the experts on here saying you should be shooting at less than 2:1 thats 4 shots a drive. 20 shots for the day!

400 high bird shoot 9 guns average shot count 2700-3000 is 300 shots per person per day.

 

I think what Scully says is true, each to there own!

Big shoots however have the best game collection service in place to my knowledge, the farm shoots relying on beaters and guns taking the shot game are the concern I'm afraid!

I would like to meet these experts that can shoot 2 :i on live driven days  Load of bull manure

I have been in a position on shoots where have been told that such and such are in the top 10 on game shoots and these so called top guns cannot shoot at a ratio of 2:1 over a full driven day Fact  Not on the estate i beat and pick up on  I have never come across any gun that can compete with this ratio and i have seen some crack shots that have the funds to do it all season

But none that can do 2:1 ratio on a full day   But there again it depends on the eastate shoot and how demanding the birds are as some are pretty mediocre in terms of challenging

Twice this last season on two shoots i was on 100% had i gone home on the third drive But by the end of the day was no where near 2:1 ratio

We were on a shoot up in Scotland and had a great day and had our quota But the head keeper gave us a chance on his prestiges drive where we were imformed that the ratio was 30:1

and we soon realised why. But we were all happy with what we achieved  I managed 3 for 20 shots  and would defy any gun doing 2:1 ratio on that drive

[Perazzishot]

Sabel I was referring to the recent thread about extreme bird shooting where I was demonised for pricking and injuring and if you can't shoot 2:1 or less you should not be lifting your gun!

I know the shoot with the 30:1 average I had 16 for 186 shots! Delighted!

[wildfowler.250]

Well it’s been an interesting thread. I think all I can say from this is that the birds must get used; that’s the main thing. My main worry is what the general public see about these larger days. We can all appreciate the benefits of game shooting. But non-hunters just see vast numbers of dead birds and realistically it’s an image we could do without.

 

Hope everyone has a good season!

[sabel25]

11 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

Sabel I was referring to the recent thread about extreme bird shooting where I was demonised for pricking and injuring and if you can't shoot 2:1 or less you should not be lifting your gun!

I know the shoot with the 30:1 average I had 16 for 186 shots! Delighted!

I was only refering to the 2:1 ratio not to you personaly

Pleased you enjoyed that shoot as we all did and are planning to go back next season

ATB

[cardigun]

An interesting thread !  Many differing views!  Most depending on their own experience.  " I have never done it because I don't like it "

Just out of interest, if you have ever had a 100 bird day on the pigeons, that is the equivalent of a 1000 bird day with 10 Guns !

[CharlieT]

If the detractors have never tried a 500 bird day double gunning then I suggest you try it.

Successfully shooting 5 brace to your own gun on a drive that lasts, say 20 minutes, where the birds are presented sportingly is one of the most challenging forms of shooting one can enjoy. 

Believe me, you remember every one. 

 

 

 

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

If the detractors have never tried a 500 bird day double gunning then I suggest you try it.

Successfully shooting 5 brace to your own gun on a drive that lasts, say 20 minutes, where the birds are presented sportingly is one of the most challenging forms of shooting one can enjoy. 

Believe me, you remember every one. 

 

 

 

👍

[Old farrier]

14 hours ago, sabel25 said:

I would like to meet these experts that can shoot 2 :i on live driven days  Load of bull manure

I have been in a position on shoots where have been told that such and such are in the top 10 on game shoots and these so called top guns cannot shoot at a ratio of 2:1 over a full driven day Fact  Not on the estate i beat and pick up on  I have never come across any gun that can compete with this ratio and i have seen some crack shots that have the funds to do it all season

But none that can do 2:1 ratio on a full day   But there again it depends on the eastate shoot and how demanding the birds are as some are pretty mediocre in terms of challenging

Twice this last season on two shoots i was on 100% had i gone home on the third drive But by the end of the day was no where near 2:1 ratio

We were on a shoot up in Scotland and had a great day and had our quota But the head keeper gave us a chance on his prestiges drive where we were imformed that the ratio was 30:1

and we soon realised why. But we were all happy with what we achieved  I managed 3 for 20 shots  and would defy any gun doing 2:1 ratio on that drive

A decent game shot can do 2/1 if they only pick birds they know they can kill and stay inside of that comfort zone 

the averages plummet when you start taking on birds that are outside of your personal comfort zone or the conditions make for more challenging shooting 

very few of us have the concentration levels to maintain the average over a whole day and seldom do you get your consistent favourite birds 

this is the challenge of the driven shooting we all (I hope) strive to get the best average and consistent dead in the air birds while stretching our abilities and our equipment to the limit 

 

just to say I go on big days and enjoy every moment 

 

[Novice]

On 16/02/2019 at 22:32, Walker570 said:

The word is that prices will rise this next season, by how much it is difficult to say but I would guess £30 or less is going to be a real bargain with £35 being more of a base price rising to a £40 average with some up market shoots getting close to £50 a bird.

If that is so then it will probably halve the number of days I will take and I am not sure there are enough guns out there willing to spend the money to replace those like myself who have a limited amount to spend on their shooting.  I am at an age now where my walked up and walk and stand days are over, which I miss greatly.  The only game bird shooting I can take part in are fully driven days.

 

Interesting you say that. I heard very recently of a big commercial shoot making the decision for next season to release less and charge more per bird. 

This is the first time I've heard of those on the "inside" recognising what they're doing to be a bit ott and that they need to rein things in. 

 

[Walker570]

5 hours ago, sabel25 said:

I was only refering to the 2:1 ratio not to you personaly

Pleased you enjoyed that shoot as we all did and are planning to go back next season

ATB

My records show that in the last three seasons I have averaged 2.6 to 1. I do not class myself as an 'expert' shot.  You ask how I know this, well my wife stands behind me , picks up my empties religiously and we both religiously count birds down and mark them.  We all wing one occasionally but make a point of seeing pickers up afterwards and often they will come across during the day and say they have found it, which is what it is all about.  I just wonder how many of the 180 birds perrazzishot fired at where pricked / wounded and never picked ?

As an aside, note, I shoot a 410.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Walker570

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I just wonder how many of the 180 birds perrazzishot fired at where pricked / wounded and never picked ?

This is my concern.  If the overall shots to birds is poor (for simple example worse than 4 to 1) - either there are an awful lot of 'clean misses', or there are a lot of birds hit, but not picked.

I appreciate that with very high testing birds, there WILL be a lot of clean misses, but my guess is that there will also be a lot of birds with insufficient shot/striking energy to cleanly kill.  It wouldn't be for me.  I don't like thinking I have pricked a bird and it isn't going to be picked - which does of course happen.  But if I was getting a ratio of wildly worse than say 4:1, I wopuld not want to be firing at those birds.  Appreciate this is a personal view.

[Duckandswing]

I do sometimes struggle reading these kind of topics. I see game shooting as extremely ethical when compared to say the mass production of chicken or the mass production of pigs or ducks etc.

The game just dies in a different manner, after it’s be reared in a nice environment, fed and watered with plenty of space.

Then released and either shot or lives to fly another day.

i may be entirely missing the point, but if the vast majority of game enters the food chain, which I’m sure it does, then what is the problem?

 

[Scully]

42 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

 I just wonder how many of the 180 birds perrazzishot fired at where pricked / wounded and never picked ?

 

The same could be asked of any shoot.....big, small, average, extreme. Again, we're discussing something we all do, and if not wounding or pricking live quarry is of primary concern, then why do we do it? 

Extreme bird shoots aren't my cup of tea because I like to hit more than I miss, but that decision certainly has nothing to do with pricking birds. I say again, no one, and I mean no one, who shoots live quarry is in any position to look askance at anyone else who is doing the same. My nephew loves extreme birds...each to their own. 

If you're so concerned about not wounding or pricking birds then why not use a 12 bore with it's bigger cartridge capacity for pellets, as opposed to a .410? How do you know that you aren't pricking the 2.6 you are missing? It's not a criticism; I shoot live quarry too, sometimes a pricked bird is obvious, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes we find a pricked bird, sometimes we don't; does it stop us from shooting next time out? No.  

[islandgun]

30 minutes ago, Duckandswing said:

I do sometimes struggle reading these kind of topics. I see game shooting as extremely ethical when compared to say the mass production of chicken or the mass production of pigs or ducks etc.

The game just dies in a different manner, after it’s be reared in a nice environment, fed and watered with plenty of space.

Then released and either shot or lives to fly another day.

i may be entirely missing the point, but if the vast majority of game enters the food chain, which I’m sure it does, then what is the problem?

 

Also my thoughts on the subject. I like to shoot things for the table, I also rear livestock and catch seafood,  as ethically as im able, I would certainly shoot pheasant or pigeon if i could. I have no interest in driven days [ unless i could come away with a freezer full..😉] but cant decry those that do.. yer pays yer money etc

[Walker570]

As always Scully...fair comment BUT  2.6 to 1 with any shotgun gauge compared to 16 to 1 with super canon shells, there is just a slight difference don't you think. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Walker570

[stagboy]

23 minutes ago, Scully said:

 

I say again, no one, and I mean no one, who shoots live quarry is in any position to look askance at anyone else who is doing the same. 

 

To my way of thinking, those who shoot gamebirds without taking any responsibility for ensuring that the resulting carcases enter the human food chain would be better to stick to shooting inanimate targets. Same with the exponents of "extreme" pheasant shooting, where sentient creatures are used as little more than feathered targets, in the full knowledge that many will be wounded in the course of bolstering the Gun's bragging rights.

It is true that we don't shoot game for food as the main motive, any more than we eat meat to live. We shoot game - as we eat meat - for entertainment. But the way we treat the animals we kill is very important. The big bag brigade have been largely responsible for the collapse in game meat prices, through an excess of supply over demand. This in turn has harmed the public perception of game shooting. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by stagboy

[Scully]

37 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

As always Scully...fair comment BUT  2.6 to 1 with any shotgun gauge compared to 16 to 1 with super canon shells, there is just a slight difference don't you think. 

Without a doubt there's a difference, but no one sets out to wound birds, and although we all know it happens, it doesn't prevent any of us going out again. As such I don't think any of us are in a position to criticise.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Scully