Knife crime.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

Unfortunately it is not as simple as that. It has to do with poverty and power. Poor people are used by powerful people to do their bidding. Glasgow had it's razor gangs, Tyneside hairiest, etc etc. It had nothing to do with colour or ethnicity until recently, it's always had something to do with poverty and powerful people controlling them.

Yeah youre right , its got nothing to do with poor parenting, or absent father figures.
Role models with gold teeth , rapping about how many 'hoes they got' and how much gear they deal, while keeping the opposition off their patch with 'shanks and straps'
Schools that are not allowed to use physical discipline, whilst the kids laugh at the sanctions imposed on them, that they ignore.

Its got nothing to do with a criminal justice system that lets sexual assault off with community orders (that they ignore)
Prison sentences that are seen as coming of age , or a badge of honour, rather than a deterrent, punishment.
And a left wing that defends their human rights, rather than admit there is a problem with ethnic crime.

Nothing to do with any of these things, its because they are poor, and easily lead, not because we dont have the balls these days to teach kids the difference between right and wrong.

[henry d]

My hope is for something less drastic than peasants with pitchforks, perhaps communities coalescing around common goals or visions and to a certain extent there are signs of it happening through the third sector.

[Newbie to this]

Whatever the answer is, I hope they find it soon at get implementing it. This needs stopping sooner rather than later.

I would like to see harsher sentences for illegal carrying and full life sentences for using.

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, henry d said:

My hope is for something less drastic than peasants with pitchforks, perhaps communities coalescing around common goals or visions and to a certain extent there are signs of it happening through the third sector.

The peasants know exactly what they would get if they tried to defend themselves with any makeshift weapons.
And you can bet your bottom dollar it would be dealt with more harshly than the young scrote attacking them with an illegal zombie knife 😆

Communities do coalesce around common goals occasionally, one is neighbourhood watch, and a common goal of defending ones person and property from burglary and violent crime.

[henry d]

Someone mentioned dignity and respect earlier and strangely enough this lady popped up on the news up here this morning. (from an American perspective but dignity and respect transcend borders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGbMwP8MDjg

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, henry d said:

Someone mentioned dignity and respect earlier and strangely enough this lady popped up on the news up here this morning. (from an American perspective but dignity and respect transcend borders)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGbMwP8MDjg

From the comments.

Leland Martineau1 year ago (edited)

I think that her message to treat everyone with respect is important. People are innocent until proven guilty. We treat innocent people with respect, and we should never assume guilt before proven guilty. That should include judges above all other people.

Commissar Kek1 year ago

The judge needs to dispense justice, not make people feel special. This is not a safe space, it is a courtroom.

 

Its this kind of thing that gives credence to the view that the justice system thinks more about the accused than the victim, yes they are innocent until proven guilty, but there has been an investigation, the CPS has looked at the evidence and decided there is a case that needs to be answered.
Without being too pedantic, the accused is there for a reason.
Weve had this conversation before, but quite often a serious crime has been committed and the victim, or their families, have been put through hell , listening to the evidence or being cross examined, whilst the accused leers or stares at them  from the dock.
Often resulting in a ridiculously lenient sentence, because a solicitor, barrister or probationary worker has compiled a report that has no basis in reality, detailing why the convicted person doesnt deserve harsh sentencing.
The victim, if they are still alive, or family if theyre not, walk out of that court demoralised, and wondering when the criminal or their associates are going to turn up again at their door.

 

Where is the victims dignity and respect then ?

[KB1]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Yeah youre right , its got nothing to do with poor parenting, or absent father figures.
Role models with gold teeth , rapping about how many 'hoes they got' and how much gear they deal, while keeping the opposition off their patch with 'shanks and straps'
Schools that are not allowed to use physical discipline, whilst the kids laugh at the sanctions imposed on them, that they ignore.

Its got nothing to do with a criminal justice system that lets sexual assault off with community orders (that they ignore)
Prison sentences that are seen as coming of age , or a badge of honour, rather than a deterrent, punishment.
And a left wing that defends their human rights, rather than admit there is a problem with ethnic crime.

Nothing to do with any of these things, its because they are poor, and easily lead, not because we dont have the balls these days to teach kids the difference between right and wrong.

It's a shame that no one in power or media has the balls to call it like it is.....  I agree 100% with what you say!

[henry d]

It seems there are more experts in the field of social/youth work, policing, and academics with better knowledge of the causes and solutions of knife/violent crime on here than anywhere else.

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, henry d said:

It seems there are more experts in the field of social/youth work, policing, and academics with better knowledge of the causes and solutions of knife/violent crime on here than anywhere else.

Are you an expert Henry ? Have you got the answers ?
Besides more money, and more YW s, do you have a strategy that will work in the short term, because at the moment were losing about 5 kids a week.
Why didnt you use this link https://theconversation.com/repeating-flawed-policies-to-tackle-knife-crime-could-put-young-people-in-more-danger-113143 ?

The one that blames the police and tory government  for rising knife crime.

Or this one, that blames austerity and 'inequality' https://theconversation.com/homicide-rates-are-up-in-young-men-austerity-and-inequality-may-be-to-blame-112980 ?

Yours blames toxic environments 'caused by austerity' https://theconversation.com/knife-crime-causes-and-solutions-editors-guide-to-what-our-academic-experts-say-113318

And yet there all from the same academic source, various UK unis, so is it all of these things ?

One could be forgiven for thinking its just a tory bashing lefty website, that does not once apportion blame to the actual perpetrators of knife crime, any crime in actuality.Its not their fault, its the environment they live in, caused by the conservative government.

Until we can have 'The Conversation' without worrying about offending peoples culture, race or life choices, you are not going to 'fix' anything.
And you can pump as much money as you like it to it, it wont change anything.

[chrisjpainter]

Fortunately MPs are on it and coming up with brilliant suggestions like this from the MP for North Cornwall...

The responses are worth a look, too!

[Scully]

What a tool! Some of the replies are hilarious! 

[oowee]

Look and learn from Glasgow for an answer. 

Whilst its true than BAME people are disproportionately victims and perpetrators of knife crime it is not true to say that the problem lies mostly with this group. This is the data for victims. There is similar data in the London Strategy for knife crime that I have seen but do not have to hand. 

Data is only available from 2000 and these statistics therefore 
relate to the period 1 January 2000 to 31December 2007.

28 stabbings have occurred in the City of London Police force area in 
this period, of which 2 resulted in the victim dying. The breakdown 
of ethnicity of the suspects or offenders is as follows:

White: 39.3% 
Black: 25.0% 
Asian: 10.7% 
Other: 3.6% 
Unknown: 21.4%

[NoBodyImportant]

On 10/03/2019 at 12:03, fatchap said:

Not had the best weekend, In the light of recent tragic events around Harold Hill, My hobby of making knives has made me quite unpopular over my local pub. People I have known for years giving me grief while I'm trying to enjoy a quiet pint.
People asking how do I sleep at night knowing I make items of MURDER, seriously? I make tools for hunting and fishing. And I only make them for people I know personally or the few I have made for guys on here, I can be pretty sure they are not gang members and will use the knife for what it is intended.
I can understand feelings running high obviously but the way I see it a drunk driver who mows down a pedestrian, its not the pub that sold him the beer thats at fault or the maker of the car to blame its the person themselves, but try telling people around here that who even after a week of that young girl getting stabbed, which happened 50 yards from my house are still looking for someone to blame.
I think I will stay out of the local until things calm down a bit, I shouldn't have to as I haven't done anything wrong but I think its a healthy plan.

I just made my first knife.  I used a make shift torch furnace and a ball ping hammer.  I enjoyed it though.  I watched to many episodes of Forged In Fire.  It’s tv in the states about who can make the best knives.  (Do you guys get it over there?).  It’s weird because everyone carries a knife over here.  Small folders not daggers.  

 

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I just made my first knife.  I used a make shift torch furnace and a ball ping hammer.  I enjoyed it though.  I watched to many episodes of Forged In Fire.  It’s tv in the states about who can make the best knives.  (Do you guys get it over there?).  It’s weird because everyone carries a knife over here.  Small folders not daggers.  

 

Very nice looking implement

im sure if you posted it in the craft and diy section you would have a lot of interest along with request for information on your process 

interesting to note that you all carry knives in your area 

do you have any history of high levels of knife crime? 

Ohh and I think you probably used a 

ball pein hammer 😉😊

all the best 

of 

[NoBodyImportant]

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Very nice looking implement

im sure if you posted it in the craft and diy section you would have a lot of interest along with request for information on your process 

interesting to note that you all carry knives in your area 

do you have any history of high levels of knife crime? 

Ohh and I think you probably used a 

ball pein hammer 😉😊

all the best 

of 

No sir.  In America crime is pretty much none existent the 90% of the country.  But when have this little pockets of diversity in the cities.  That is where almost all our violent crimes take place.  Those are the places that ban the carrying of weapons ironically.  Out away from the cities the crime you hear about is drug heads breaking into cars and stuff. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by NoBodyImportant

[henry d]

On 10/03/2019 at 22:48, fern01 said:

I believe most of the serious knife crime comes from ethnic minorities and people with mental health issues.

I have been told some countries encourage them to come here because they can't or won't sort them out

We had enough nutters of our own and now we have imported a load more.

 

 

On 11/03/2019 at 09:49, panoma1 said:

I would like to see data including the ethnic origin of perpetrators published, then the police could properly target the people who commit crimes, without fear of being accused of unfair bias and/or racism!

 

On 11/03/2019 at 09:52, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good grief man, nobody will put their name to that, the Snowflakes would be up in arms calling for the human rights of the accused to be protected!

 

11 hours ago, oowee said:

Look and learn from Glasgow for an answer. 

Whilst its true than BAME people are disproportionately victims and perpetrators of knife crime it is not true to say that the problem lies mostly with this group. This is the data for victims. There is similar data in the London Strategy for knife crime that I have seen but do not have to hand. 

Data is only available from 2000 and these statistics therefore 
relate to the period 1 January 2000 to 31December 2007.

28 stabbings have occurred in the City of London Police force area in 
this period, of which 2 resulted in the victim dying. The breakdown 
of ethnicity of the suspects or offenders is as follows:

White: 39.3% 
Black: 25.0% 
Asian: 10.7% 
Other: 3.6% 
Unknown: 21.4%

There you go, everyone say thank you to oowee!

[Penelope]

Just now, henry d said:

 

 

 

There you go, everyone say thank you to oowee!

Why, that's the City of London, an area so unlike any other in London, it may as well not be.

Let's see the same for all the surrounding areas? Every time I pick up the London Evening Standard and read about yet another stabbing or shooting, it's young black and a few Asian men that are the victims and perpetrators.

 

I was reading an article back last summer in the Standard when they did a series of pieces about the increase in stabbings, where they concentrated on a gang member, he said things started to escalate when Somalis started coming into the country, they had no fear or respect for life. That's from a young black man about other young black men.

[henry d]

1 minute ago, Penelope said:

Why, that's the City of London, an area so unlike any other in London, it may as well not be.

Let's see the same for all the surrounding areas? Every time I pick up the London Evening Standard and read about yet another stabbing or shooting, it's young black and a few Asian men that are the victims and perpetrators.

 

I was reading an article back last summer in the Standard when they did a series of pieces about the increase in stabbings, where they concentrated on a gang member, he said things started to escalate when Somalis started coming into the country, they had no fear or respect for life. That's from a young black man about other young black men.

The data is there, and I quoted those who did not believe such things exist and blamed snowflakes/human rights rather than look for data, much like just reading a newspaper that can only supply a certain amount of column to a story, or one person giving their thoughts on a subject.

[Penelope]

22 minutes ago, henry d said:

The data is there, and I quoted those who did not believe such things exist and blamed snowflakes/human rights rather than look for data, much like just reading a newspaper that can only supply a certain amount of column to a story, or one person giving their thoughts on a subject.

It was a two page spread each day over a week, all on this guy's life as a 'Roadman', with the emphasis on knife and drug crime, so hardly a snippet.

[oowee]

Analysis of Metropolitan Police crime data for 2016/17 indicates that 75 per cent of victims of knife crime are male and frequently aged less than 25 years of age.3 Almost half of all victims of knife crime were from BAME backgrounds. Those recorded as black ethnicity represented one in five of all victims of knife crime in the last year. For offenders, almost ninety per cent were male and of those, 62 per cent were from BAME backgrounds.

Source : London Knife Crime Strategy 2017

What is worrying is we have these strategies and plans issued every couple of years when we know the cause and know the solution but are not prepared to act to get it sorted. It does look as though Sadique is to have a go at sorting it properly and may adopt the Glasgow model. 

Between April 2006 and April 2011, 40 children and teenagers were killed in homicides involving a knife in Scotland; between 2011 and 2016, that figure fell to just eight. The decline has been most precipitous in Glasgow, which once had one of the highest murder rates in western Europe. Between 2006 and 2011, 15 children and teenagers were killed with knives in Scotland’s largest city; between April 2011 and April 2016, none were.

[henry d]

21 minutes ago, Penelope said:

It was a two page spread each day over a week, all on this guy's life as a 'Roadman', with the emphasis on knife and drug crime, so hardly a snippet.

...and certainly not anything more than one persons POV

[SpringDon]

9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I just made my first knife.  I used a make shift torch furnace and a ball ping hammer.  I enjoyed it though.  I watched to many episodes of Forged In Fire.  It’s tv in the states about who can make the best knives.  (Do you guys get it over there?).  It’s weird because everyone carries a knife over here.  Small folders not daggers.  

 

That’s nice looking work for basic tools. We do get forged in fire and it’s variants. Back on topic, I find sad that someone can get abused in a pub for crafting something that only an idiot would believe is for crime. 

Obviously a criminal will use cheap disposable knives. Your lady in the pub should be shouting at the staff in John Lewis etc. Who knows, perhaps she already does.

[Raja Clavata]

The City of London figures are definitely outliers, you only need to look at the sad list of lives lost to knife crime in London this year to see the demographic most affected.

The incident this post originates from has apparently seen a third person arrested, interestingly the initial report stated that two hooded black youths were implicated whilst the suspect that has subsequently been charged is of Eastern European origin.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

14 hours ago, oowee said:

Look and learn from Glasgow for an answer. 

Whilst its true than BAME people are disproportionately victims and perpetrators of knife crime it is not true to say that the problem lies mostly with this group. This is the data for victims. There is similar data in the London Strategy for knife crime that I have seen but do not have to hand. 

Data is only available from 2000 and these statistics therefore 
relate to the period 1 January 2000 to 31December 2007.

28 stabbings have occurred in the City of London Police force area in 
this period, of which 2 resulted in the victim dying. The breakdown 
of ethnicity of the suspects or offenders is as follows:

White: 39.3% 
Black: 25.0% 
Asian: 10.7% 
Other: 3.6% 
Unknown: 21.4%

There you go, everyone say thank you to oowee!

For what ? An outdated 10 -20 year old report that says that nearly half of knife crime from 'known' ethnicities was committed by BAME assailants ?

 

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Analysis of Metropolitan Police crime data for 2016/17 indicates that 75 per cent of victims of knife crime are male and frequently aged less than 25 years of age.3 Almost half of all victims of knife crime were from BAME backgrounds. Those recorded as black ethnicity represented one in five of all victims of knife crime in the last year. For offenders, almost ninety per cent were male and of those, 62 per cent were from BAME backgrounds.

This from 2- 3 years ago, what do you think the figure is today ? 75, 80 %

Why is it so uncomfortable to confront the reality ?
We have a problem with ethnic minority youth crime, its not racist to declare a fact is it ?

Once you can recognise that theres a problem, and try to look past the liberal excuses like, its  poverty, 'the youf club shut down innit', the police bullied me once, I never had a dad, thats why I decided to join a gang and stab innocent people with 12 " bladed zombie knives...innit.
 

[NoBodyImportant]

36 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

For what ? An outdated 10 -20 year old report that says that nearly half of knife crime from 'known' ethnicities was committed by BAME assailants ?

 

This from 2- 3 years ago, what do you think the figure is today ? 75, 80 %

Why is it so uncomfortable to confront the reality ?
We have a problem with ethnic minority youth crime, its not racist to declare a fact is it ?

Once you can recognise that theres a problem, and try to look past the liberal excuses like, its  poverty, 'the youf club shut down innit', the police bullied me once, I never had a dad, thats why I decided to join a gang and stab innocent people with 12 " bladed zombie knives...innit.
 

Lol,  we are seperated by a ocean but that statement could be used in America also.