Shot Sizing - Is It A Joke?

[wymberley]

OK, one maker based in Hull frequently reinvents their shot sizes but they do actually tell you what you're getting on their website -  if not on the box. For many other makers it seems to be a lottery. I've just finished playing around trying to find out what suits my new gun. Fiocchi GFL 20 UK 6s are 295 per ounce. Express 20 bore Supreme Comp 7&1/2s are 379, their Supreme Game 6s are 287 and their Supreme Game 7s are 374, again all per ounce. Their Super Game 12 bore in 7s are 371/oz.

[old'un]

The way shot is manufactured I would image there will be some variation in shot diameter/weight?   

[wymberley]

" The way shot is manufactured I would image there will be some variation in shot diameter/weight? "

Yep. It might be an idea to make it as they did some 60 years ago. Mind you, although I can't answer for all of their range of products, from a reasonable sample size Gamebore still seem to have the hang of it.

[Dougy]

Does it really matter that much whether its 2.001 or 2.125 and do you really count the shot to make sure your not getting short changed. 

 

Can i suggest you take up an additional hobby, you obviously have too much time on your hands. 

[wymberley]

5 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Does it really matter that much whether its 2.001 or 2.125 and do you really count the shot to make sure your not getting short changed. 

 

Can i suggest you take up an additional hobby, you obviously have too much time on your hands. 

Yes, I do count the shot when using a new cartridge choice - but not for the reason you gave - but for the same reason that I use a pattern plate - to ensure that I have sufficient pellets to ensure a clean kill at my pre-determined maximum range - I take it you're not sufficiently interested in your hobby to do likewise - perhaps you need to knock this one on the head and find another before you bring mine into disrepute.

[Dougy]

6 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Yes, I do count the shot when using a new cartridge choice - but not for the reason you gave - but for the same reason that I use a pattern plate - to ensure that I have sufficient pellets to ensure a clean kill at my pre-determined maximum range - I take it you're not sufficiently interested in your hobby to do likewise - perhaps you need to knock this one on the head and find another before you bring mine into disrepute.

i do spend more time shooting than i spend counting shots in a cartridge. 

[matone]

Pays to just shoot stuff and see what occurs in my book!

[AYA117]

35 minutes ago, matone said:

Pays to just shoot stuff and see what occurs in my book!

With you on that one, think it is called 'field testing' 

[Perazzishot]

I can't believe 20 pellets or so out of 300-400 per ounce is going to make the slightest difference to what you pick up after a days decoying or to your scorecard on a clay shoot.

 

 

[Guest cookoff013]

there is some drift on what a shotsize is.

[Smokersmith]

If you're bothered .. check.

If you're not bothered ... shoot.

I think we have bigger fish to fry than this!

[Gordon R]

Whilst it is taking shot size seriously, why is the OP taking stick? If he wants to count, let him.

I don't understand why people are having a pop, as they ought to have bigger fish to fry.

[lancer425]

l agree if the op wants to count its up to him he might just gain confidence  if real or  or imagined is irelivent in this game Confidence plays an often overlooked aspect.  If anyone want to know for sure the shot size and pellet count then sure fire way is to reload as much as you practically can then you know exactly what your getting in every aspect of your ammo. .

Edited March 13, 2019 by lancer425

[Vince Green]

As far as I know there is no universal standard for shot size, certainly European is different to UK and American is different to both. Even then, I think all three are conventions rather than a formal written industry standard.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Vince Green

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

If you're bothered .. check.

If you're not bothered ... shoot.

I think we have bigger fish to fry than this!

Bingo!

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

l agree if the op wants to count its up to him he might just gain confidence  if real or  or imagined is irelivent in this game Confidence plays an often overlooked aspect.  If anyone want to know for sure the shot size and pellet count then sure fire way is to reload as much as you practically can then you know exactly what your getting in every aspect of your ammo. .

No problem here, let them pop awayy - I don't give two hoots. You have the answer and the confidence is real. I have a new gun in a calibre that I've never used before and obviously, ammunition to suit. One doesn't actually count the pellets but pours them into a counting tray and counts the vacant holes which takes a couple of seconds. If I hadn't counted the ones in one example I gave (of which I now have 1000) and did a pattern test based on the English standard for 7 shot I would have got, say, a 1/2 choke result which would have been an error. As the pellets in question are considerably undersize, the actual choke  would be 1/4. The gun was fitted and throws the pattern precisely where I want it and I now have every confidence in the knowledge that that pattern is sufficient as far as it is possible to ascertain that a clean kill will result from a truly aimed shot at a predetermined maximum range. For my money, I'll go a stage further and just say that if anyone can't put their hand on heart and say the same, then that is the reason why I don't give two hoots about their opinion, it's probably worthless.

[lancer425]

Truth is many do not ever pattern their guns and what the spread looks like over water or into the mud at the edge of the bank is about it for a pattern test, and if thats all they want or feel they need from a pattern then thats good enough.

 On the other hand i need to know exactly whats going on and throughout the whole range spectrum i expect to shoot things, its all about ratios if your ratio kill to shot rate goes up after you work on a gun with its load thats good it means less potential suffering a cleaner cut if you like that is just how i want to do it im not saying its the only way but its the only way i am interested in .

Your doing things your way trying your level best to get and be efficient, you are also dealing with a smaller bore shotgun which although not a .410 its small enough in load shot charge to start sitting up and paying attention to things like shot count if you want the last percentages from your ammo. 

[motty]

I think there is certainly some merit in finding out how big your shot might be in a given cartridge, and how your cartridge might pattern through a certain gun/choke. Some folk need not bother, as they can already shoot pheasants at 90 yards, with no kind of pattern whatsoever.

[Perazzishot]

30 minutes ago, motty said:

I think there is certainly some merit in finding out how big your shot might be in a given cartridge, and how your cartridge might pattern through a certain gun/choke. Some folk need not bother, as they can already shoot pheasants at 90 yards, with no kind of pattern whatsoever.

Stalker Alert!

Wymberley. If these patterns and shot sizes are of such concern you can only be up there as one of the top clay shots in the country, even then some of my friends World, European, British and National Champions never go to these lengths on cartridge analysis so I'm intrigued to know your discipline and Class. I reckon ABT A Class, only saying that having been out with the current Scottish ABT Champion in Argentina who does pattern all his cartridges and takes them to bits. He also has 20+ traps set up on his land and shoots up 4000 cartridges a week practicing.

[wymberley]

24 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Stalker Alert!

Wymberley. If these patterns and shot sizes are of such concern you can only be up there as one of the top clay shots in the country, even then some of my friends World, European, British and National Champions never go to these lengths on cartridge analysis so I'm intrigued to know your discipline and Class. I reckon ABT A Class, only saying that having been out with the current Scottish ABT Champion in Argentina who does pattern all his cartridges and takes them to bits. He also has 20+ traps set up on his land and shoots up 4000 cartridges a week practicing.

Gas Gas Gas

Well, hot air anyway. Who said anything about clay pigeons?

We have recently seen your idea of the effective range of a shotgun and the total indifference to potential suffering - actually that qualifies as a definition but I have no doubt that it is wasted on you.

I'll say no more that direct you to the final sentence of my last post.

[Perazzishot]

23 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Gas Gas Gas

Well, hot air anyway. Who said anything about clay pigeons?

We have recently seen your idea of the effective range of a shotgun and the total indifference to potential suffering - actually that qualifies as a definition but I have no doubt that it is wasted on you.

I'll say no more that direct you to the final sentence of my last post.

 

 

You will need to tell all us Sporting and FITASC shooters you can't shoot clays past 50yds either especially as we are constantly getting 75 yard+ targets and folk with no pattern are still scoring 10/10 on a stand, that a lot of lucky pellets!

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

 

 

You will need to tell all us Sporting and FITASC shooters you can't shoot clays past 50yds either especially as we are constantly getting 75 yard+ targets and folk with no pattern are still scoring 10/10 on a stand, that a lot of lucky pellets!

With the greatest respect smashing a clay is not killing a bird its hinting a target, that is just part of the equation you have there.  if all i had to do was hit to guarantee a kill life would be just like clay busting.  Real life is something else altogether its not playing on a sunday down the club its KILLING you can not be Flippant when your talking lives you got to know your stuff put the time in if you want to be good at what you do, by good i mean NOT CRUEL.  This is way more involved than smashing clays at local club or top flight international level.

[Perazzishot]

40-50 High/Extreme/Grouse Driven Shoots per season, 1 or 2 Clay Competitions a week, Pigeon Shooting when ever I want it and plenty of duck and goose shooting. Ex Keeper shot for over 35 years and still under 50! Shot with DC a number of times and I may actually be in some of his videos!

Just fired 5025 Cartridges in 4 days in Argentina to add to the 30-40000 I normally shoot per year.

And yes I have micrometer, digital scales to check when I don't think a cartridge is working the way I expect it too.

But I only use Cheddite and Proper cartridges!

Some might sit behind the keyboard while others actually get out and do what they talk about not what they read or are told! I'll expect the same criticism from the keyboard warriors as last time and also the same support from actual shooters out in the field who found it hilarious the last time this came up! 😏

Enjoy what makes you happy, get a good dog because we will all wound and injure whether it is 20 yard duck or a 70 yard pheasant!

 

[lancer425]

19 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

40-50 High/Extreme/Grouse Driven Shoots per season, 1 or 2 Clay Competitions a week, Pigeon Shooting when ever I want it and plenty of duck and goose shooting. Ex Keeper shot for over 35 years and still under 50! Shot with DC a number of times and I may actually be in some of his videos!

Just fired 5025 Cartridges in 4 days in Argentina to add to the 30-40000 I normally shoot per year.

And yes I have micrometer, digital scales to check when I don't think a cartridge is working the way I expect it too.

But I only use Cheddite and Proper cartridges!

Some might sit behind the keyboard while others actually get out and do what they talk about not what they read or are told! I'll expect the same criticism from the keyboard warriors as last time and also the same support from actual shooters out in the field who found it hilarious the last time this came up! 😏

Enjoy what makes you happy, get a good dog because we will all wound and injure whether it is 20 yard duck or a 70 yard pheasant!

 

I doubt i do 2000 rounds of shotgun ammo a year, i don’t often shoot clays I shoot with a shotgun in this order of preference and frequency. in this order Wildfowling  (Shoreline) crows some pigeon and rough shooting on a small local syndicate .i  try for do a lot of rifle shooting mostly fox with some deer .

I do wound some birds and animals  and i have three what i consider good working dogs. I can hold my own with a shotgun or rifle in any company and i do try to be ethical and humane in all my hunting, and i hate i mean really hate loosing any shot birds to tides or because i did my part wrong, I do make mistakes but i try not to make a habit of it.

I do shoot geese to the limits of the my gun and loads capability i know what that capability is because i took the time to find out for myself.  WHY? Because i can and i want to thats WHY?  I Know it helps me no question about that whatsoever.  So i will keep muddling through in my own keyboard warrior style trying my level best not to wound and mame what i hunt.

 You you need to Do exactly what you do with your chedites and your proper cartridges on your 40-50 High/Extreme/Grouse Driven Shoots per season, 1 or 2 Clay Competitions a week, Pigeon Shooting when ever you want it and plenty of duck and goose shooting. and fireing  5025 Cartridges in 4 days in Argentina to add to the 30-40000 you normally shoot per year. I am sure we are both doing what is right for what we do who we are and our outlook on what we want from what we do.

 

[NoBodyImportant]

I’m in America so I really can’t comment but I really don’t care about the shot size.   8 and 7 shot Federal/Winchester can be bought at the grocery store for 17 cent each so that’s what I shoot.  When you get up into 6 shot or bigger it goes to 30 cent - to a dollar.