scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Assuming the new GL with regards Woodpigeon shooting is explicit in stating killing to prevent serious agricultural damage isn’t it about time woodpigeons had an open and closed season similar to game? They could have a winter open season so roost shooting and incidental shooting could continue on game shoots etc. Then be subject to the conditions of a GL in their closed season, so they can be shot to prevent serious agricultural damage. i.e an identical situation as did apply to Canada Geese. without such a belt and braces approach winter roost shooting and shooting away from crops may well be unlawful under the terms of any new GL’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Open season would need to be August to March to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Totaliy agree, but to be fair roost shooting and shooting away from crops is no more of a grey area than it was under the old GL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Open season would need to be August to March to be effective. It is not intended to be effective, it is intended to allow ‘sporting’ shooting during the autumn/ winter. The GL would apply all year round so crop protection would be covered when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 In this current climate of anti shooting, eco pressure groups and the general public's dislike of shooting I think that government time spent debating and passing a law to elevate the humble wood pigeon to the status of a game bird stands as much chance of a pig flying. Even if the EU directive on birds permitted such a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, scolopax said: Assuming the new GL with regards Woodpigeon shooting is explicit in stating killing to prevent serious agricultural damage isn’t it about time woodpigeons had an open and closed season similar to game? They could have a winter open season so roost shooting and incidental shooting could continue on game shoots etc. Then be subject to the conditions of a GL in their closed season, so they can be shot to prevent serious agricultural damage. i.e an identical situation as did apply to Canada Geese. without such a belt and braces approach winter roost shooting and shooting away from crops may well be unlawful under the terms of any new GL’s. You need to define, "incidental shooting". Woodpigeon are a protected species and "I incdentally shot a couple while out rabbitting" does not qualify as vermin control - even under the old system of the GL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 They cannot sort out Brexit, so............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, wymberley said: You need to define, "incidental shooting". Woodpigeon are a protected species and "I incdentally shot a couple while out rabbitting" does not qualify as vermin control - even under the old system of the GL. Sporting shooting, to be subject to purely sporting shooti g the woodpigeon will have to be afforded levels of protection akin to our quarry listed game species, ie open and closed seasons. Open season during autumn and winter months. The GL would still apply concurrently so that crop protection could continue year round. This is very similar to how Canada geese were treat. Both an autumn/ winter open season and year round ‘pest’ shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, scolopax said: It is not intended to be effective, it is intended to allow ‘sporting’ shooting during the autumn/ winter. The GL would apply all year round so crop protection would be covered when required. Not talking sporting - the best number reduction is decoying over stubble and winter crops which I fear may be out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Head hits brick wall...it is not about number reduction! it is about finding a way to legally allowing sporting shooting of woodpigeons. Most likely under the terms of any new GL, as now shown to be under the terms of the last GL’s, sporting shooting of woodpigeons will be illegal, no roost shooting, no pigeon popping whilst stood on a game peg, no shooting woodpigeon whilst out rough shooting, no flight line shooting away from crops. Etc etc. the GL will allow for crop protection under certain conditions. Most likely tougher conditions than we imagined earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 They here is ‘to prevent’ reducing numbers over stubble to protect excessive numbers eating growing crops in spring would be in scope. The crow licence uses ‘to prevent’ meaning we can trap now to avoid damage to poults when they arrive. As with any new law it’s open to interpretation and challenge and the proof will be when prosecutions are sought, I can see BASC insurance being popular... Scolopax, nothing will wind antis and packhamites more than the idea of shooting pests for sport, preventing damage is the only leg we have to stand on, the fact you enjoy it is incidental ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Just a simple line... Pigeons can be shot over crops to be harvested & as game bird to run with pheasant season..... this would cover from drilling to harvest.. I'm a shooting person but if there must be a black & white no damage done to stubbles, clover, cover maize etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Ruler Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, PPP said: Scolopax, nothing will wind antis and packhamites more than the idea of shooting pests for sport, preventing damage is the only leg we have to stand on, the fact you enjoy it is incidental ... In some of the Packham / Avery propaganda I read it seems it’s the fact we enjoy shooting that they dislike the most. Now if we all say we really hate shooting birds but the farmer begged us.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 I am pretty sure to be treat as a ‘game bird’ as per the Birds Directive the woodpigeon would need to be subject to protected status for that part of the year deemed to be the main breeding season. There are many species that can be shot as a ‘sporting bird’ I.e not as a pest, according to the EU birds directive, just that many member countries choose not to. Brent geese, curlew, whimbrel, Godwit, bean goose can all be shot according to euro law methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 51 minutes ago, scolopax said: Assuming the new GL with regards Woodpigeon shooting is explicit in stating killing to prevent serious agricultural damage isn’t it about time woodpigeons had an open and closed season similar to game? They could have a winter open season so roost shooting and incidental shooting could continue on game shoots etc. Then be subject to the conditions of a GL in their closed season, so they can be shot to prevent serious agricultural damage. i.e an identical situation as did apply to Canada Geese. without such a belt and braces approach winter roost shooting and shooting away from crops may well be unlawful under the terms of any new GL’s. It’s a good idea, but getting implemented is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, PPP said: Scolopax, nothing will wind antis and packhamites more than the idea of shooting pests for sport, preventing damage is the only leg we have to stand on, the fact you enjoy it is incidental ... My thoughts exactly I don’t shoot pigeons For sport I shoot pigeons for Crop protection if I want Sport I go Clay pigeon shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Just now, silver fox 1 said: My thoughts exactly I don’t shoot pigeons For sport I shoot pigeons for Crop protection if I want Sport I go Clay pigeon shooting Me too, I don’t enjoy that either ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The gouse Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, scolopax said: Assuming the new GL with regards Woodpigeon shooting is explicit in stating killing to prevent serious agricultural damage isn’t it about time woodpigeons had an open and closed season similar to game? They could have a winter open season so roost shooting and incidental shooting could continue on game shoots etc. Then be subject to the conditions of a GL in their closed season, so they can be shot to prevent serious agricultural damage. i.e an identical situation as did apply to Canada Geese. without such a belt and braces approach winter roost shooting and shooting away from crops may well be unlawful under the terms of any new GL’s. So wot your saying is every spring crop let the pigeons get on with it. Every field of peas barley wheat beans just let them destroy it. Game birds don’t do this. I wouldn’t won’t you looking after my crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PPP said: Me too, I don’t enjoy that either ... Me neither it would good if I could hit the blasted things so I reckon I will be good at this pigeon scaring thing Edited April 27, 2019 by silver fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, The gouse said: So wot your saying is every spring crop let the pigeons get on with it. Every field of peas barley wheat beans just let them destroy it. Game birds don’t do this. I wouldn’t won’t you looking after my crops. Steve mate I don’t think he is saying that, what he is saying is we carry on shooting under the new GL in the closed season but during the open season we can shoot pigeons wherever and whenever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, The gouse said: So wot your saying is every spring crop let the pigeons get on with it. Every field of peas barley wheat beans just let them destroy it. Game birds don’t do this. I wouldn’t won’t you looking after my crops. Not at all A woodpigeon can legally be both on the GL all year to allow killing for crop protection, and also listed as a game bird for want of a better description, with an open season and a closed season, allowing shooting not just for crop protection during that open season, whatever it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The gouse Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Sorry got it now.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Wasn`t there a .Gov funded report published last year that said Woodpigeons needed to be controlled as a pest and that summertime shooting was the only effective method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 2 hours ago, scolopax said: Assuming the new GL with regards Woodpigeon shooting is explicit in stating killing to prevent serious agricultural damage isn’t it about time woodpigeons had an open and closed season similar to game? They could have a winter open season so roost shooting and incidental shooting could continue on game shoots etc. Then be subject to the conditions of a GL in their closed season, so they can be shot to prevent serious agricultural damage. i.e an identical situation as did apply to Canada Geese. without such a belt and braces approach winter roost shooting and shooting away from crops may well be unlawful under the terms of any new GL’s. Yeah, I'd go along with that, especially as my suggestion to declare it a pest species and remove all protection will never be entertained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Couple of years ago maybe longer now from Spalding to the wash area a group of shooters came funded to shoot pigeons on all land, roost, at night with air weapons, to see if it had any impact at length on crop damage , Never heard any more will have to enquire with farmers who run or sponsored it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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