Changes To The General Licence

[oldypigeonpopper]

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

Reports say that NE as been swamped with individual licence applications for the control of various birds….

Be interesting to hear from anyone who as applied, Did you get your licence? Have you used it? And what bird species did you apply for? ….

19-03-prevent-serious-damage.pdf 2.26 MB · 1 download

hello, our trout fishing club applied for a licence to shoot cormorants, that was many weeks ago, still not received or any email returned on this application  

[old'un]

7 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, our trout fishing club applied for a licence to shoot cormorants, that was many weeks ago, still not received or any email returned on this application  

Now that Gove has been made aware of the mess surrounding the GL I don’t think we will hear anything from NE until there is a response from his department, I think our org’s are in the same position, they cannot tell us what’s going on until they get a reply.  

[Guerini Guy]

33 minutes ago, old'un said:

Reports say that NE as been swamped with individual licence applications for the control of various birds….

Be interesting to hear from anyone who as applied, Did you get your licence? Have you used it? And what bird species did you apply for? ….

19-03-prevent-serious-damage.pdf 2.26 MB · 4 downloads

I did apply for 4 x individual licences to cover 4 x permissions  -  have not yet received any response. Not surprised really as they must have thousands of applications. Personally I still believe that a new GL will be issued soon, but wanted to cover my back in case further unexpected delays occur. Not absolutely certain, but I think even Andy Crow stated that once the applications have been acknowledged (which they have) then it is ok to proceed, but I'm a bit wary of that and think I'll wait until I get a response from NE ?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Guerini Guy

[mossy835]

im not filling in any forms yet .will wait and see what comes our way,

[McSpredder]

16 hours ago, McSpredder said:

..... quite a good piece today on BBC TV local news in Northumberland (lunchtime and again at 6:30pm ), some of it filmed at Castle Bolton, film of wader chick being stolen by corvid, etc. 

Still available on BBC I-player, BBC 1 "Look North", 29 April.   Piece on the GL starts 7 minutes into the programme, film of lapwing chick being carried off by crow at about 7min-30sec.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0004tcv/look-north-north-east-and-cumbria-evening-news-29042019

Edited April 30, 2019 by McSpredder
BBC link added

[Yorkshire Lad]

Reading the news articles and the comments posted on the articles its clear just how much misinformation and misunderstanding is being published on seemingly reputable platforms through news articles, reports and interviews and then repeated as gospel by the readers, viewers and listeners.

Taking woodpigeon in isolation - The RSPB & NE (along with other bodies/trusts) estimates a 134% increase in woodpigeon in the 41 years between 1970 and 2011 and 40% increase in the 16 years between 1995 and 2011 and yet we have arguments about how the licences must be revoked for 'conservation' and no one is challenging them in a meaningful way, I am struggling to see what it is in this example that needs conserving.

It seems that the argument from the other side is a fluid thing that changes to suit the conversation with the only constant being the anti shooting undertone.

 

 

RSPB and co. study - https://www.rspb.org.uk/globalassets/downloads/documents/conservation-science/state-of-the-uks-birds_2013.pdf

[Andy Austin]

The new licences application forms are now available, they look very limiting if you do not have regular places to shoot over as you have to be specific about the land ownership and the conditions under which the control will take place. Looks like the end of invites to organised vermin shoots.  I will be making an application for my own land based on crop damage which would be specifically for pigeons but it seems that there is no flexibility for general shooting. I would like to keep the number of Magpies down to limit predation on protected birds but I could not justify it under the terms of the new licences.  Any ideas on how to make the most of this change?

[Scully]

3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, our trout fishing club applied for a licence to shoot cormorants, that was many weeks ago, still not received or any email returned on this application  

A mate once asked some of his Environment Agency mates what they suggest he do about the Cormorants on one of our permissions, and was told 'Just shoot them; no ones gonna know.' We didn't. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

A mate once asked some of his Environment Agency mates what they suggest he do about the Cormorants on one of our permissions, and was told 'Just shoot them; no ones gonna know.' We didn't. 

hello, not so easy as it is on a farm complex, shops, cafe s, pick your own, can be 1000 plus people not including children, but they do not get there at 6 am 👍

[janner1]

Has anyone applied for the new licence yet , are there sample answers to questions asked ,available on the net .

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by janner1

[Good shot?]

I am awaiting the issue of the new 'General Licence' later this week and see what transpires, I assume you are looking at the 'personal licence'.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Good shot?

[Pistol p]

There has been an update/ revision on the license to shoot crows today. Looks like only allowing to shoot over livestock only.

[wymberley]

Do the conservationists want all the shooting to stop?
No, absolutely not, says Avery. The trio accept that landowners sometimes need to kill birds that are causing problems. Rather, the aim is to get everyone to sit down and talk, and agree on a system that is legal, fair and based on science, he says. People shouldn’t be able to kill birds just because they feel like it.

Can you give examples?
Farmers ought to able to shoot wood pigeons if they are causing damage to crops, Avery says. They are the main target already – it’s estimated 1 to 3 million pigeons are killed each year. By contrast, there’s no reason why people should be able to kill jays with impunity, Avery says. While they do kill songbirds, they are not to blame for the sharp decline in songbird numbers in the UK over the past 50 years – that’s due to farming practices destroying songbirds’ habitat.

What about crows?
This is the most contentious area. Besides sometimes attacking vulnerable farm animals such as newborn lambs, crows are the second biggest UK predator after foxes of ground-nesting birds. “There’s definitely a case for controlling crows around ground-nesting birds,” says conservationist Mary Colwell, who has written about the plight of the curlew. Organisations such as the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds kill several hundred crows each year for this reason.

Altogether, it is estimated that 100,000 are killed each year, says Avery. “We’re not saying that none ought be killed but we’re saying that killing ought to be legal and well-thought through and regulated,” he says.

Are crows in decline, too?
No, far from it. They have been thriving and the population in the UK has grown to a million. It is suspected that the 50 million game birds released by the UK’s shooting industry each year are helping predators like crows and foxes thrive, as most are not shot and end up as, say, road kill. The high number of predators adds to the pressure on species such as curlews, though the main cause of their decline is intensive farming.

If people will still be able to shoot birds, why is everyone so upset?
It’s partly because the general licences have suddenly been revoked with just two days notice and no plan B. “Natural England is working at pace to put in place over the next few weeks alternative measures to allow lawful control of these bird species to continue where necessary,” the agency said in a statement. This was not the aim of Avery, Tingay and Packham – their lawsuit called only for the licences not to be renewed next year.

It seems Natural England decided to act sooner. It could not have happened at a worse time, says Colwell. But she supports the overall aim. “People shouldn’t be able to shoot wildlife just because they feel like it.”

 

What's the chances of Packham and Avery falling out sooner rather than later? Above extracted from the New Scientist.

[JJsDad]

19 hours ago, Ridgeway Redneck said:

That has really made me chuckle!!

Well we can all have a chuckle now, because his ad (or whoever put it on ebay) has been removed.

When I looked last night the bidding was getting up toward £2000 which would have been a disastrous own goal for the field sports community, as the money was going to his pressure group Wild Justice.

I dont know who`s report got it removed, hopefully a number of folks complaind. I put a report in saying I found the advert offensive.

I find it almost unbelievable that someone is prepared to pay over £2000 for something so trivial, I could buy a decent auto for that sort of money. None so queeer as folks as my old Dad used to say !

Edited April 30, 2019 by JJsDad

[Scully]

Intersting post Wymberley. 'Farming practices' or 'intensive farming practices' are catchphrases used extensively by so called conservationists, yet I wonder how many people stop to consider that it is Government policy which dictates ' farming practices ', and not the farmers? 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Scully

[JJsDad]

20 hours ago, Hammeronhammeroff said:

he obviously he obviously thinks he is clever and funny. Hope he gets in trouble for listing offensive material

Its been taken off ebay now, having got up to around £2000.

[Yorkshire Lad]

I've just spotted this gem in the new GL26 taken from the 'Diversionary Feeding' section of preventing damage to gamebirds.

 Animal by-products legislation does not allow food to be used that would otherwise be used for human consumption, and therefore excludes any animal that has been kept by man, including any fallen stock. Wild animals such as rabbits, game birds, grey squirrels or deer can be used (unless any have been reared for human consumption).

To protect gamebirds (in NE's eyes) it is better to kill a gamebird and then to use the carcass to feed crows rather than to shoot the crow.

Unless the game bird was to be eaten by a human once killed.....

[Scully]

Just received this: https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/nes-licensing-crisis-summary-to-date

[Ridgeway Redneck]

18 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Well we can all have a chuckle now, because his ad (or whoever put it on ebay) has been removed.

When I looked last night the bidding was getting up toward £2000 which would have been a disastrous own goal for the field sports community, as the money was going to his pressure group Wild Justice.

I dont know who`s report got it removed, hopefully a number of folks complaind. I put a report in saying I found the advert offensive.

I find it almost unbelievable that someone is prepared to pay over £2000 for something so trivial, I could buy a decent auto for that sort of money. None so queeer as folks as my old Dad used to say !

I’m pretty sure whoever was bidding on it is not actually going to pay anything. It’s more likely wind up merchants bidding it up for their own amusement.

[JJsDad]

11 minutes ago, Ridgeway Redneck said:

I’m pretty sure whoever was bidding on it is not actually going to pay anything.

Well ebay would be chasing the seller, as they would want their slice of the selling price. As you say, could be some sad individuals trying to have a wind-up, but I wouldnt like to see him receive a brass farthing from the stunt.

[Ridgeway Redneck]

8 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Well ebay would be chasing the seller, as they would want their slice of the selling price. As you say, could be some sad individuals trying to have a wind-up, but I wouldnt like to see him receive a brass farthing from the stunt.

Lots of sad individuals on eBay! I agree with you I wouldn’t want him or anyone else making any money from it.

[ditchman]

have they sorted the licence out yet..................can we go shooting pigeons now ?

[mossy835]

dont think so not as yet.

[old'un]

47 minutes ago, Scully said:

Just received this: https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/nes-licensing-crisis-summary-to-date

Its like I said in an earlier post and confirmed by the summing up at the bottom of the page, anyone not following the licence to the letter will leave them selves open to possible prosecution.

 

• The old General Licences have gone.

• The only replacement issued so far is for crow control to protect crops and livestock but it is very hard if not impossible to comply with its conditions and we cannot recommend relying on it.

• Individual Licences applied for have not yet been issued but some may be soon. We believe they can be relied upon for carrying out the control that they specify but you must read the small print and make sure you are comply with it all.

• If NE say you can rely on the ‘Section 4 defence’ for emergency control in circumstances where you have applied for a licence but not been granted one, be very careful. Previous NGO legal advice is that this defence cannot be relied upon and even NE has only gone so far as to say that if you follow that route you “may not be prosecuted” (Our emphasis).

• More General Licences are expected soon and the NGO will analyse each of them and provide further advice via this website.

 

[lancer425]

23 minutes ago, ditchman said:

have they sorted the licence out yet..................can we go shooting pigeons now ?

Ditchman hang on in there, just keep on with the scarecrows and bangers , and if NE are good to their word you will have a new\general license in place this week.

Then if your attempts to curtail pigeon activity on your patch prove a failure and you snapped a few scarecrow pics  with your mobile for the record. Then you can resort to lethal force given no other option.