Mr Packham says he's never been opposed to shooting.

[1066]

My Packham says he's never been opposed to shooting - some culling is necessary to protect birds and magpies don't have any effect on songbird populations.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/why-chris-packham-is-in-favour-of-culling-sometimes/ar-AABDKtP?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Yellow Bear]

That nose is getting longer as the pain increases from the gunshot wound in his foot methinks.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

So he is not a conservationist he is just against people enjoying their country way of life and enjoying themselves while performing a service to the farmers!

[1066]

16 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So he is not a conservationist he is just against people enjoying their country way of life and enjoying themselves while performing a service to the farmers!

I think you've hit the nail on the head there - Shooting not so bad, you just never admit that you enjoy it.

[mick miller]

Honestly, just stop posting pictures online of dead stuff. It's really that simple. Otherwise you just provide video and photographic 'nasties' for these people to use [scroll down, see the list of usual suspects].

http://vegfestexpress.co.uk/tabs/blog/2015/07/for-fox-sake-david-cameron

We're our own worst enemy when it comes to this. At least UK Varminting has a rule that you cannot post pictures of dead stuff, that's a sound starting point.

 

 

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

Honestly, just stop posting pictures online of dead stuff. It's really that simple. Otherwise you just provide video and photographic 'nasties' for these people to use [scroll down, see the list of usual suspects].

 

 

Why should we hide it.. Why should I not show the buck or doe or fox or pigeon. I go out stalking, I enjoy the whole experience and the photo is the memory of the whole day. I dont go out and enjoy pulling the trigger as much as I do seeing what I see. 

Just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean I should hide it 

 

[panoma1]

I can't help feeling a bit of deja vu! Foxhunting based a lot of their defence on pest control when everyone knew they did it mainly because they enjoyed it!......Are shooters making the same mistake? I shoot not mainly for pest/predator reasons but, because I enjoy it!

I am morally fine with this and will hide it from no one!

But saying that, I do feel posting pictures in the media of the slain is insensitive, as some non shooting people are morally and emotionally offended by it! And shooting does not need to encourage these people, however misguided they are, into active opposition to our sport!

[kenholland]

yes but it's an eye opener to the public , as the lambs of this country have found out with more to come.

[ninjaferret]

Mr. Packham, refused to have his picture taken with me, because I shoot..........................................

[mick miller]

11 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Why should we hide it.. Why should I not show the buck or doe or fox or pigeon. I go out stalking, I enjoy the whole experience and the photo is the memory of the whole day. I dont go out and enjoy pulling the trigger as much as I do seeing what I see. 

Just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean I should hide it 

 

Because, your pictures will be used as ammunition against us all. Take photos if you like, show them to friends, in private. But don't go splashing them on the interwebs just to feed your ego. It's not doing us any favours. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by mick miller

[ShootingEgg]

22 minutes ago, mick miller said:

Because, your pictures will be used as ammunition against us all. Take photos if you like, show them to friends, in private. But don't go splashing them on the interwebs just to feed your ego. It's not doing us any favours. 

Woah, who said im feeding my ego? If I go out for the day or on holiday I take photos to remember it, thats what a photo is, a snapshot of the day, so much more happens when on a stalk or on a game shoot or a hide day, the one photo reminds you or I or anyone else about the day. At no point do I boost my ego when I take an animal. 

[mick miller]

Good, then take a photo and show your friends. Just don't go posting it online. Simple.

I get sick and tired of seeing the usual stuff, usually the foxing brigade are the worst offenders. Pictures of dead cubs, dead foxes with the guts or eyes hanging out, but pigeon shooters are just as bad, posing with massive piles of birds. How do you think the wider public views stuff like that? How do you think they contextualise the photos? Why do you wonder why we face an onslaught of vitriol, hatred and misunderstanding when photos such as these are so widely and publicly shared?

We desperately need to re-educate  the wider public of the benefits of what we do, posting gory pictures isn't going to help anyone win that fight.

- An example; pictures of nest boxes next to an air rifle and some dead squirrels helps contextualise why squirrels have been killed. Pictures of an air rifle with dead squirrels just looks like they've been killed for the 'fun' of it (.. and yes, I've been guilty of this in the past, but won't be any longer).

Edited May 22, 2019 by mick miller

[1066]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

- An example; pictures of nest boxes next to an air rifle and some dead squirrels helps contextualise why squirrels have been killed. 

That's exactly the sort of thing we need show - it was only the photos of pecked lambs in the national press that drew any public attention to the recent problem and highlighted the narrow minded absurdity of Packham et al.

[oz.man64]

Welcome to Jackanory with Chris Packham

[norfolk dumpling]

Strange old world we live in. We slaughter 8-900m chickens annually (+ imports), tens of millions of sheep and cattle but those carcasses are cleverly hidden in plain view in chiller cabinets, freezers or hidden between two bits of bread. We love our fluffy cats but then we pretend to not notice the hundreds of millions of small birds and mammals they kill. But somehow our detractors manage to convince those same 60m+ meat eaters and moggie owners we are somehow more cruel and less human than they are. There is a big Truth we need to tell - we love hunting, shooting and fishing and the rest love eating meat which just doesn't die of old age. I have more respect for vegans!

[JJsDad]

On 21/05/2019 at 14:32, 1066 said:

My Packham says he's never been opposed to shooting

I wouldnt believe a single word the little hypocrite spouts !

[dead eye alan]

16 hours ago, JJsDad said:

I wouldnt believe a single word the little hypocrite spouts !

Me neather. Wast of his mothers milk!

[Walker570]

On 21/05/2019 at 19:59, ShootingEgg said:

Why should we hide it.. Why should I not show the buck or doe or fox or pigeon. I go out stalking, I enjoy the whole experience and the photo is the memory of the whole day. I dont go out and enjoy pulling the trigger as much as I do seeing what I see. 

Just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean I should hide it 

 

Exactly.  BUT make the pictures 'tidy'  don't throw birds in a pile, don't have the guts hanging out of a 17HMR'd tree rat,  set the deer up tidy, it is not that difficult. 

This photo just might wind them all up a bit but the Rancher was overjoyed we took these out one morning for him.  This was Texas in April... note the snow out through the door, that was at 8am  at 12 noon it was 75deg in the shade!!

 

[old'un]

On 22/05/2019 at 08:25, mick miller said:

Good, then take a photo and show your friends. Just don't go posting it online. Simple.

I get sick and tired of seeing the usual stuff, usually the foxing brigade are the worst offenders. Pictures of dead cubs, dead foxes with the guts or eyes hanging out, but pigeon shooters are just as bad, posing with massive piles of birds. How do you think the wider public views stuff like that? How do you think they contextualise the photos? Why do you wonder why we face an onslaught of vitriol, hatred and misunderstanding when photos such as these are so widely and publicly shared?

We desperately need to re-educate  the wider public of the benefits of what we do, posting gory pictures isn't going to help anyone win that fight.

- An example; pictures of nest boxes next to an air rifle and some dead squirrels helps contextualise why squirrels have been killed. Pictures of an air rifle with dead squirrels just looks like they've been killed for the 'fun' of it (.. and yes, I've been guilty of this in the past, but won't be any longer).

I agree entirely, we all know what a dead fox, pigeon, rabbit or deer looks like, abattoirs don’t post pictures of dead animals, so why do we need to post them, a good story about the day yes, we can all paint an image in our head of the day, bit like reading a good book.

I may have posted two pictures since joining PW….but having said all that is it not a case of closing the stable door etc.

[lancer425]

On 21/05/2019 at 19:59, ShootingEgg said:

Why should we hide it.. Why should I not show the buck or doe or fox or pigeon. I go out stalking, I enjoy the whole experience and the photo is the memory of the whole day. I dont go out and enjoy pulling the trigger as much as I do seeing what I see. 

Just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean I should hide it 

 

I agree with this entirely as shooters we have been under fire well over a hundred years and exactly why Stanley Duncan founded WAGBI in 1908.

 We are doing nothing illegal we are just country folk going about the business of the country.  The fact Packham and his cohorts do not agree with out way of life is an issue for them to address not us to feel conscious about .

If a person choses to post pictures of a trophy stag a big boar a big bag of pigeons or crows whatever, is a mater for their consideration, no body else matters other people can choose not to look if they don’t like what is in the pictures.

 As shooters we are all vetted by the police  interviewed character references record checked   we come under more scrutiny than just about any other community in our society. In many forms of shooting formal training is a part of that sport we must practically undertake this training in order to take part in many cases, and clubs have inductions training  interviews and safety lessons quarry ID accompanied visits followed by probation periods.   In many aspects  our way of life in fact clear evidence of our sheer resolve to even get to achieve the goal of Owning a gun and being in a position to hunt with it, Why should we not feel the need to express our pride in our achievements. Footballers pose for hero shots motor racing people pose for photos with their trophy why not us shooters, we are fine upstanding law abiding humane members of society if we were not we would not be here doing what we do we would not be allowed to.
The anti hunting shooting fraternity are going to try their level best regardless  if we post pictures or not

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Exactly.  BUT make the pictures 'tidy'  don't throw birds in a pile, don't have the guts hanging out of a 17HMR'd tree rat,  set the deer up tidy, it is not that difficult. 

This photo just might wind them all up a bit but the Rancher was overjoyed we took these out one morning for him.  This was Texas in April... note the snow out through the door, that was at 8am  at 12 noon it was 75deg in the shade!!

 

 Agree on the gore aspect but in fairness its not common place here in the uk, to show overly gorry pics , its the domain of the Dogtown varminters and snow goose cullers in the states to lead in the gore stakes not here in the uk.

 The snow geese photos are by the very contrasting colours of the subjects Graphic in nature Blood on a snow white goose often shot at close range with big shot means Snows can look messy , but even then these birds are a real pest in the states and they just want them dead its not quite like the uk, but the Canadas being on the GL is sadly verging on such attitude.

we we need to show where we are doing a great god of managing the 3/4 of the uk land mass we hunt over and perhaps start looking carefully and pulling down the 1% the RSPB/ Conservation groups manage. After vall if we in the huge areas we manage were not doing such a good job of what we do , The reserves they boast so much about would be devastated by pests and predation.

I do not think the shooting community as a whole shout enough about the fact we exist and do what we do shapes the very country we live in today, as in what lives and survives here what the habitats look like and how we manage the huge areas we shoot over, we as the stewards of this land  and know only too what we need to do to maintain the status quo in the countryside, its in our interests  to look after our flora and fauna and in many cases it is  our own  land  as in we legally have the deeds. Its high time these antis got a grip and started looking at real issues like the Homeless people in the UK not concerning themselves with other peoples business , Let nature run riot on their Small conservation areas, but leave the rest of the country to the owners and tenants and the shooting community to control the wildlife on this land.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

I agree with this entirely as shooters we have been under fire well over a hundred years and exactly why Stanley Duncan founded WAGBI in 1908.

 We are doing nothing illegal we are just country folk going about the business of the country.  The fact Packham and his cohorts do not agree with out way of life is an issue for them to address not us to feel conscious about .

If a person choses to post pictures of a trophy stag a big boar a big bag of pigeons or crows whatever, is a mater for their consideration, no body else matters other people can choose not to look if they don’t like what is in the pictures.

 As shooters we are all vetted by the police  interviewed character references record checked   we come under more scrutiny than just about any other community in our society. In many forms of shooting formal training is a part of that sport we must practically undertake this training in order to take part in many cases, and clubs have inductions training  interviews and safety lessons quarry ID accompanied visits followed by probation periods.   In many aspects  our way of life in fact clear evidence of our sheer resolve to even get to achieve the goal of Owning a gun and being in a position to hunt with it, Why should we not feel the need to express our pride in our achievements. Footballers pose for hero shots motor racing people pose for photos with their trophy why not us shooters, we are fine upstanding law abiding humane members of society if we were not we would not be here doing what we do we would not be allowed to.
The anti hunting shooting fraternity are going to try their level best regardless  if we post pictures or not

That’s all well and good on a shooting forum where everyone understands what we are about, the problem is the public's view on what we do, I have seen over the years pictures taken from sites like this and posted on social media with lies and out of context quotes like…

Picture of a shot fox, “This is what these blood thirsty murders are doing to our beautiful wild life, they will not be happy till they have killed everything”

Picture of a pile of shot crows/pigeons, “will we have any song bird left? They are slaughtering thousand of song birds in the name of crop protection”

A few pictures like that and bending of the truth can have a big impact on the public's perception of what we do, especially when they plaster it all over social media and websites like LACS etc, unfortunately the public are easily lead by these pictures and the lies that go with them.

Trying to justify the posting of that type of picture on shooting websites is just preaching to the converted, yes we are doing nothing wrong but should we be giving them a stick to beat us with?

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, old'un said:

That’s all well and good on a shooting forum where everyone understands what we are about, the problem is the public's view on what we do, I have seen over the years pictures taken from sites like this and posted on social media with lies and out of context quotes like…

 

 

Picture of a shot fox, “This is what these blood thirsty murders are doing to our beautiful wild life, they will not be happy till they have killed everything”

 

 

Picture of a pile of shot crows/pigeons, “will we have any song bird left? They are slaughtering thousand of song birds in the name of crop protection”

 

 

A few pictures like that and bending of the truth can have a big impact on the public's perception of what we do, especially when they plaster it all over social media and websites like LACS etc, unfortunately the public are easily lead by these pictures and the lies that go with them.

 

 

Trying to justify the posting of that type of picture on shooting websites is just preaching to the converted, yes we are doing nothing wrong but should we be giving them a stick to beat us with?

This is perhaps where our being  under siege mentality is getting us as a continuity more insular in nature, and here lays extinction we just don’t tell the world enough about how good we really are and  just what an important part we play in the country side.  We can not be criticised for this it is after all human nature to avoid trouble confrontation and not to upset distress or offend others is second nature to any decent member of society,. We are by enlarge decent members of society and if you look at it logically we have certification to prove that , and definitely in the relevant  aspects of gun safetey owning handling and hunting/ controlling wildlife.  

Hiding under the biblical bushel shy of expressing our endemic connection with the wildlife we manage is not reaching the opponents of shooting or those sat on the metaphorical fence. All the fence sitters see is a withdrawn ageing community from a bygone age stuck in our ways refusing to be flexible and offering little if any explanation as to why we do what we do.

We need to be proud of what we do make effort to change aspects of our sport , and explain our activities to a clearly ignorant majority much better than we are doing at the moment.

To put a modern spin on proceedings we need to get out more, tell the world what we are about, show the general population just what we do do for our environment and countryside.

 BASC have done some excellent research on aspects that have implications to some aspects of shooting in the uk wild fowling disturbance ETc, and they are to be applauded for this, but we need to do much more and learn from past experiences share with others the events and conclusions of our dealings with Natural England this happens within wildfowling all the time, and helps us to be able to pre-empt the potential pitfalls we might be put in when dealing with NE in the future. Communication as never been better and we need to where prudent help one another as orgs groups clubs or individuals. I think with a bit of carefull thought and coperation under the guidance of BASC and other shooting orgs we can turn this around to our long term benefit, hiding and drawing the curtains wont help our cause getting active and amongst it will. Take a leaf fro WJs Book, crowd funded , it needs us to work like this, look at the bother they have caused shooting for what? A £35k investment.

We should look at doing similar and ok we wont get near the suport they did but what we do get we might be able to use to good effect improving our odds which just now look grim.  

[old'un]

I do not disagree with the above, as said you are preaching to the converted, but the point you have not addressed is posting pictures of stuff we have killed.

[lancer425]

27 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Re the last two posts prior to the very last one:  Magic, that's a relief and thanks for posting. Following a forced change of employment -ie - early retirement on medical grounds - with an associated hefty reduction in income, I have been quite happily doing my own thing in my neck of the woods for very many years. Because they got repetitive and thus boring I knocked the magazines on the head way back and now I rely on just PW and my association magazine for any news. Consequently, it is good to hear that things have improved considerably in the intervening years. The one thing that has always concerned me - which explained my work with BASC - would appear now to be negated from what the posts tell us. This is also, perhaps, assisted by our imminent departure from the EU. I hadn't realised how much shooter education and knowledge had increased for many. It is a relief to hear it because I've always figured that an anti would eventually come along and who would actually know about our sport and having a precedent already set would be in a position to do us - with some exceptions - untold damage, certainly in the short term.

In fairness to BASC they have been on the education van for decades now the late 80s early 90s competence certificates the NSCC on deer ok naive and basic in today’s scheme of things but it was what was needed then and did see many go out with a better knowledge base than just the pamphlet the police handed out with the old white card certificates back then.

Some aspects and sectors  of the shooting community are at present not seeing quite the standard  of education required to full fill the needs of all aspects of their activity.  The clear ignorance surrounding the 40 YEAR OLD  type general licence is a recent evidence of this .

  BASC more than up to the task of info and advice and this aspect alone is a good reason to join BASC without taking anything else into account.

 And before we all start jumping up and down proclaiming we " BEEN DOING THIS YEARS I CAN TELL THEM A THING OR TWO" .   Perhaps but we all can learn more, i have my own opinion on certain training i have undertaken over the years, this is not for debate here, but what i will say is harping back to the early  days of DSC level 1 i will admit despite my 25 years experience before i took that test i did learn from it and do think it was worthwile, and in discussion with others after the group as a whole felt they benefited from it.

Other countries have more involved hunter education encompassing a brad range of hunting activities environments and weaponry involved. We can easily take aspects of such education from abroad and use them here tailored to fit the uks requirements.

BASC have experts on most aspects of shooting be that hunting right to the funding  financing project advice, and they have representatives who will if required visit certainly wildfowling clubs, and i imagine other clubs  and offer advice where needed.   I am sure we can come up with many ideas on education to help compliment our work in the countryside to the benefit of everything and everybody.  And if we do i think it can only add to our already considerable repertoire when we are combating  the pseudo conservationist groups like WJ etc.