barrie0 Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3610d6cf-6d1e-45ed-ab7f-3b6c0f9a5c43 Starts at 14:47:38 on the video player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggone Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Well worth watching, especially the questioning about non lethal stuff and roost shooting. Definitely in our favour Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Lovely to see Charlie Jacoby in the first row doing his best frown - the chair is amazing and clearly not impressed by NE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrie0 Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 The chairman was engaging! Marian Spain has further added to the debate as well - https://naturalengland.blog.gov.uk/2019/05/21/general-licences-tuesday-21-may-update/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Well they got grilled... And was a good watch. Still dont trust the defence if waiting for an individual licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 37 minutes ago, barrie0 said: The chairman was engaging! Marian Spain has further added to the debate as well - https://naturalengland.blog.gov.uk/2019/05/21/general-licences-tuesday-21-may-update/ he was no nonsense and wanted to get to the bottom of all this mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) Marian's comments read like they're more on side with WJ than any other party (what with her being mates with Juniper, Packham, Avery et al). Edited May 21, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, mick miller said: Marian's comments read like they're more on side with WJ than any other party (what with her being mates with Juniper, Packham, Avery et al). juniper isn't mates with avery he stated that in the vid ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 15:09ish - "we receive several freedom of information requests from this particular challenger" - glad I haven't handed my name, address and details over for an individual licence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Two points: (1) Presumably MAFF/DEFRA sought legal opinion when General Licences were originally devised. Lawyers acting for NE now say the General Licence scheme was being operated illegally. Was one or other of those legal teams totally incompetent? I wonder whether we are allowed to know who the original lawyers were, and how much they were paid for what was apparently rubbish advice. (2) Regarding the requirement to justify lethal control , Marian Spain told the meeting that it would be OK "..... if you can tell yourself ....." that it is reasonable to kill the bird (video 16:07). She was directly contradicting the wording of the GL, and her recent Position Statement, both of which demand that "Users of the licence are required to be able show that they are complying with the terms and conditions of the licence if asked by an officer of Natural England or the Police." https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/802734/natural-england-general-licence-position-statement.pdf Was she just spouting a load of ******** during that meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) "we at natural England have to balance the opinions and needs of all parties, the conservationists on one hand and the farmers and shooters on the other" So, there we have it. You can see how Marian Spain, with her little-girl-lost approach to difficult debate and natural England, views us. Edited May 22, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, mick miller said: the conservationists on one hand and the farmers and shooters on the other" The one panelist did not take kindly to that comment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: The one panelist did not take kindly to that comment.. Yes, I was worried about her (I think Angela Smith) as her past questions in Parliament suggested she was, for want of a better word, anti. Apparently not. However the other panellist, Kerry McCarthy, did her best to suggest that NE 'engage' with WJ and their grievances I think at one point referring to them as 'stakeholders' and putting on record that the challenge to the GLs was fair and proper. About right for a lawyer and animal rights extremist (senior member of LACS), she should not be on the panel. Edited May 22, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I had neutral opinions on this whole short consultation initially, but after seeing that and those involved i view this whole thing now as one big whitewash. Sprain is untouchable and must have graduated from RADA, McCarthy on the board, And dont get fooled by Angela smith she is an out and out ANTI worked at Wath college Swinton my sister Lectured there same time Smith is no friend of shooting. i hope i am wrong but think we are screwed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserableolgit Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 14 hours ago, mick miller said: 15:09ish - "we receive several freedom of information requests from this particular challenger" - glad I haven't handed my name, address and details over for an individual licence! You and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Mick Miller, Yes completely agree that Marian has an unfortunate 'conservationists vs shooting' approach. However, was pleased to hear her corrected by one of the panel (sorry can't recall her name), who asserted very strongly, "I should hope you regard farmers and conservationists as being one and the same!" While Marion was a little rocked by that broadside, I don't think it will change her long term view. I got the impression this wasn't a real show down, just politics being seen to be done. Its just a waiting game now...………..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said: 14 hours ago, mick miller said: 15:09ish - "we receive several freedom of information requests from this particular challenger" - glad I haven't handed my name, address and details over for an individual licence! You and me both. Yet anyone can foi for licence holders.. Soooo whats the issue there.. Antis are antis.. No matter if its clay or game, they wont like you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, lancer425 said: I had neutral opinions on this whole short consultation initially, but after seeing that and those involved i view this whole thing now as one big whitewash. Sprain is untouchable and must have graduated from RADA, McCarthy on the board, And dont get fooled by Angela smith she is an out and out ANTI worked at Wath college Swinton my sister Lectured there same time Smith is no friend of shooting. i hope i am wrong but think we are screwed . This is exactly what I have said to my MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: The one panelist did not take kindly to that comment.. That I believe was Dr Caroline Johnson (Conservative)? Ms Spain showed her true alligences when she deliberately under quoted the number of people affected by NE's revocation of the GL, and went on to infer that Farmers, and what she recognises as 'conservationists' are effectively polar opposites!.....which shouts to me she is entrenched in the ignorant misbelief that 'protectionists' are the only real conservationists! These issues alone indicate she is devious, has a closed, biased mind, and is therefore unfit to hold a position in any decision making regulatory role in NE....or anywhere else for that matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW95J Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Do I understand rightly that holders of individual licences will have their names and addresses given over if a FOI request is made? That would be shocking if it's the case. Not only does it open them up to abuse and potential threats, it's as good as a catalogue of gun owners as where they live! That would be an incredibly serious security flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I wouldn't imagine under an FOI any personal information could not be divulged as that is breach of GDPR - you could ask how many licences were issued and in which areas, or indeed any other questions about the licences but you should not be able to get the names or addresses of anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, The Mighty Prawn said: I wouldn't imagine under an FOI any personal information could not be divulged as that is breach of GDPR - you could ask how many licences were issued and in which areas, or indeed any other questions about the licences but you should not be able to get the names or addresses of anyone This^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Watched this all the way through, and all Juniper, Spain and "David" did was in true backed in a corner, was to say exactly what we all wanted to hear. Now it's all on record lets see if they're true to there word. What NE, Packham etc. need to realize is they don't own the countryside, and their contribution to it is very insignificant on the grand scheme of things. Our farm plant wild bird cover, nectar crops and wild flower strips all at a significant cost to themselves WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT. This largely due to the pathetic over complicated rules, not being paid on time and the total incompetence of NE staff. They can tell farmers and landowners what to do all they like, but at the end of it all it's still the countryside people that carry it through 9 hours ago, panoma1 said: That I believe was Dr Caroline Johnson (Conservative)? Ms Spain showed her true alligences when she deliberately under quoted the number of people affected by NE's revocation of the GL, and went on to infer that Farmers, and what she recognises as 'conservationists' are effectively polar opposites!.....which shouts to me she is entrenched in the ignorant misbelief that 'protectionists' are the only real conservationists! These issues alone indicate she is devious, has a closed, biased mind, and is therefore unfit to hold a position in any decision making regulatory role in NE....or anywhere else for that matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 I have prior experience of the ‘individual licence’ procedure (couple of years ago) to protect juvenile salmonids from a certain avian species. I sought assurances at the time from NE re FOI requests not showing my details etc. I received those assurances in writing. Apparently they only give out generalised data - excluding personal details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Fellside said: I have prior experience of the ‘individual licence’ procedure (couple of years ago) to protect juvenile salmonids from a certain avian species. I sought assurances at the time from NE re FOI requests not showing my details etc. I received those assurances in writing. Apparently they only give out generalised data - excluding personal details. ☝️👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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