The War

[butchdickason]

Well said Grandalf, the post by deeksofdoom is offensive.

[ordnance]

On 31/05/2019 at 22:16, deeksofdoom said:

Remembrance is a load of horse**** invented by politicians to glorify war. Propaganda so as not to discourage the youth from fighting future wars.

The Americans have taken veteran worship to whole new level.

Thousands of soldiers from the ROI fraught bravely to defeat the Nazis during WW2, and were treated disgracefully on their return by De Valera's Ireland, its only in recent years that their service had being recognised in the ROI. I suppose it was not surprising coming from a government with Nazis sympathisers.  Remembrance is for remembering the dead, and not glorifying  war. 

Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals - BBC News

De Valera's expression of sympathy to diplomat condemned - Irish Times

31 Dec 2011 - HITLER'S DEATH: ÉAMON DE Valera was told that by expressing condolences to the German ambassador on the death of Adolf Hitler…

Edited June 2, 2019 by ordnance

[Gordon R]

Quote

We never, ever, glorify war.   War is a thing that should be avoided and that is what we teach.   However, if diplomacy and tact doesn't work then someone has to step up to the plate.

Excellent.

[Diver One]

I don't think it helps any with all the" Online shoot em up " games. The younger generation are too far removed from reality.

my grandad was in WWi and WWII

My Dad , at age of 18, spent D day patrolling the Channel on a Motor Torpedo Boat in the role of telegrapher

i don't think my neighbours kids ( early to mid 30s ) have seen the light of day for 15 years.....spend all the time 'gaming'

[madmax666]

You could well be right, with modern  war television coverage just tends to see big guns firing off towards towns and planes dropping bombs on towns and a pillar of smoke, we dont tend see see the people under those explosions the thought of it is enough.  With what was shown in ww1 ww2 was I think is more graphic like wise the Falklands it was brought right into our own homes my good friend and work colleague was there.  War on line games players is I hope the closest they ever come to it as said war is horrible..but gaming is far removed from the real thing.

I have been to Douaumont Ossuary a few times and the scale of loss is shuddering and quite overwhelming. 

MM

[TIGHTCHOKE]

21 minutes ago, madmax666 said:

You could well be right, with modern  war television coverage just tends to see big guns firing off towards towns and planes dropping bombs on towns and a pillar of smoke, we dont tend see see the people under those explosions the thought of it is enough.  With what was shown in ww1 ww2 was I think is more graphic like wise the Falklands it was brought right into our own homes my good friend and work colleague was there.  War on line games players is I hope the closest they ever come to it as said war is horrible..but gaming is far removed from the real thing.

I have been to Douaumont Ossuary a few times and the scale of loss is shuddering and quite overwhelming. 

MM

That is rather different from your opening post.

[madmax666]

Yes, as I have mentioned I have apologized for that as I have said I think Remembrance Sunday should be the big one for all.. I have apologized for my remarks.

MM

[clakk]

Great grandads ,Black Watch and on mums side Yorks n Lancs both came back from the first war physically intact but mentally scarred and to the end of their days wouldnt talk about it .A little man from the mines stood proud on the Somme in his kilt .

My grandad went through East Africa ,Burma and later Korea .My uncles in the desert  during WW2 .Later  myself ,my brother and many cousins served included 1 on the Sheffield so yes my family will always remember and to the likes of Corbyn ,Mcdonell and their sycophants i have nothing but contempt 

[Mice!]

Anyone see Britain's got talent last night? 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bgt-winner-colin-thackery-pledges-16245227

the winner was an 89 year old Chelsea pensioner, his singing was very good but i think he won because of what he said, "I have served my country for 25 years and I would like to sing for the queen before I die" 

The Audience raised the roof, the public voted. Think that shows the feeling for our veterans.

👏👏👏👏👏 

[marsh man]

On 02/06/2019 at 10:52, Grandalf said:

This is the most offensive post I have ever read on Pigeon Watch.

The Royal British Legion, of which I am proud to be a member, is, amongst many other things, the Custodians or Remembrance.   That means we are charged by the Government, and out Patron Her Majesty the Queen, to ensure that the people of this country NEVER cease to remember the service of the armed forces.

I spend many hours visiting schools and youth groups to talk to children about the price that has been paid for our freedom.   Just maybe some of them will take the actions necessary to ensure that war becomes a thing of history.

We never, ever, glorify war.   War is a thing that should be avoided and that is what we teach.   However, if diplomacy and tact doesn't work then someone has to step up to the plate.

  

 

Excellent post , I have always remembered them and going by the above posts so have 99.9 of the massive have also remembered them , and quite rightly so .

[AULD YIN]

On 02/06/2019 at 13:30, ordnance said:

Thousands of soldiers from the ROI fraught bravely to defeat the Nazis during WW2, and were treated disgracefully on their return by De Valera's Ireland, its only in recent years that their service had being recognised in the ROI. I suppose it was not surprising coming from a government with Nazis sympathisers.  Remembrance is for remembering the dead, and not glorifying  war. 

Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals - BBC News

De Valera's expression of sympathy to diplomat condemned - Irish Times

31 Dec 2011 - HITLER'S DEATH: ÉAMON DE Valera was told that by expressing condolences to the German ambassador on the death of Adolf Hitler…

Listened to the programmes ,thought i knew a lot about WW2  INA etc but never knew about the irish sodgers ,bloody disgraceful  the way they were treated and feel so sad and angry for them and their families  

[ordnance]

Quote

Listened to the programmes ,thought i knew a lot about WW2  INA etc but never knew about the irish sodgers ,bloody disgraceful  the way they were treated and feel so sad and angry for them and their families. 

At least the roll of Northern Ireland and its soldiers was recognised, you also hear about the cites bombed in England during the blitz, something that is also overlooked is the Belfast blitz. 

Quote

Winston Churchill. But for the loyalty of Northern Ireland and its devotion to what has now become the cause of 30 Governments or nations, we should have been confronted with slavery and death, and the light which now shines so strongly throughout the world would have been quenched.

Quote

The Belfast Blitz consisted of four German air raids on strategic targets in the city of Belfast in Northern Ireland, in April and May 1941 during World War II, causing high casualties. The first was on the night of 7–8 April 1941, a small attack which probably took place only to test Belfast's defences. The next took place on Easter Tuesday, 15 April 1941. Two hundred bombers of the Luftwaffe attacked military and manufacturing targets in the city of Belfast. Some 900 people died as a result of the bombing and 1,500 were injured. High explosive bombs predominated in this raid. Apart from those on London, this was the greatest loss of life in any night raid during the Blitz.

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by ordnance

[NoBodyImportant]

Ww2 is the last real war that was fought,  at least from American point of view.  Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,Afghanistan those aren’t real war. Those are blowing up a few mud huts and rebuilding them with brand new modern hospitals, bridges and schools.  But WW2 was actually a war,  the entire country committed to it.  People at home literally scraped their prize possessions to make war equipment.  It was the last war where the outcome was unpredictable.  

[AULD YIN]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

At least the roll of Northern Ireland and its soldiers was recognised, you also hear about the cites bombed in England during the blitz, something that is also overlooked is the Belfast blitz. 

 

WW1 irish vets prior to the separation were not treated well when they came home either and it did not get any better after separation

[Hamster]

9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Ww2 is the last real war that was fought,  at least from American point of view.  Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,Afghanistan those aren’t real war. Those are blowing up a few mud huts and rebuilding them with brand new modern hospitals, bridges and schools.  But WW2 was actually a war,  the entire country committed to it.  People at home literally scraped their prize possessions to make war equipment.  It was the last war where the outcome was unpredictable.  

I'd have to disagree with a few things there, the US dropped more bombs on Korea than it did during its WW2 involvement, these weren't mud huts but houses and cities which were totally levelled. By participation length alone the Vietnam war took at least 4 times as long as the US's WW2 stint and although the casualty figures are much less on the US side the outcome of losing it make it as real as other wars. 

I fully agree that you can't really call Iraq, Afghanistan or the likes of Libya "wars", Syria too isn't a "war" since the US doesn't even have a UN mandate to be there, dropping bombs from a distance where your "enemy" is incapable of responding is essentially target practice and product development (for which the tax payer gets to pay handsomely). 

Anyone who knows me well will tell you my one basic trait and purpose is to be anti WAR, everything I do or say, the snide remarks I make, the many threads I participate in here and on social media where I know I will be outnumbered by verbal foes, it's all because I TRULY  BELIEVE in the sanctity of the words NEVER AGAIN, but I also know beyond reasonable doubt that these words have a hollow ring to them when uttered by the msm, a cursory look at events all around the world since WW2 will quickly reveal that war is good business so when these words get used what they really mean is never again in Europe if we can help it but anywhere else is fair game if there is money involved.

=======================================================================================================================================

Our biggest "enemy" was our true saviour from the Nazi's, it's a crying shame that Hollywood and msm teaches us such false history, if you were to study military and civilian losses from WW2 for instance you will be shocked to know that even India's numbers dwarf those of many of the main participants including the US/UK, China lost 20,000,000, Soviet Union some 24,000,000 the latter are now considered enemies ! 

 

[Gordon R]

Hamster - decent post.

[NoBodyImportant]

3 hours ago, Hamster said:

I'd have to disagree with a few things there, the US dropped more bombs on Korea than it did during its WW2 involvement, these weren't mud huts but houses and cities which were totally levelled. By participation length alone the Vietnam war took at least 4 times as long as the US's WW2 stint and although the casualty figures are much less on the US side the outcome of losing it make it as real as other wars. 

I fully agree that you can't really call Iraq, Afghanistan or the likes of Libya "wars", Syria too isn't a "war" since the US doesn't even have a UN mandate to be there, dropping bombs from a distance where your "enemy" is incapable of responding is essentially target practice and product development (for which the tax payer gets to pay handsomely). 

Anyone who knows me well will tell you my one basic trait and purpose is to be anti WAR, everything I do or say, the snide remarks I make, the many threads I participate in here and on social media where I know I will be outnumbered by verbal foes, it's all because I TRULY  BELIEVE in the sanctity of the words NEVER AGAIN, but I also know beyond reasonable doubt that these words have a hollow ring to them when uttered by the msm, a cursory look at events all around the world since WW2 will quickly reveal that war is good business so when these words get used what they really mean is never again in Europe if we can help it but anywhere else is fair game if there is money involved.

=======================================================================================================================================

Our biggest "enemy" was our true saviour from the Nazi's, it's a crying shame that Hollywood and msm teaches us such false history, if you were to study military and civilian losses from WW2 for instance you will be shocked to know that even India's numbers dwarf those of many of the main participants including the US/UK, China lost 20,000,000, Soviet Union some 24,000,000 the latter are now considered enemies ! 

 

Yea, but America never committed to war in Korea or Vietnam.  It’s was send only what we had to.  Neither of those wars had the support of the voters.  WW2 was different.  America put everything into that war.  

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 America put everything into that war.  

Which is just as well , or we might be having this conversation in German

[AULD YIN]

Why is it that most people keep saying it was the nazi's we fought 39/45 ,britain (UK) declared war on germany not the nazi's ,it was and is a get out clause for most germans saying me/my father/grandfather were not nazi's but fought in the 39/45 war against britain (notice i said britain (UK)and not england) 

Edited July 26, 2019 by AULD YIN

[Zapp]

36 minutes ago, AULD YIN said:

Why is it that most people keep saying it was the nazi's we fought 39/45 ,britain (UK) declared war on germany not the nazi's ,it was and is a get out clause for most germans saying me/my father/grandfather were not nazi's but fought in the 39/45 war against britain (notice i said britain (UK)and not england) 

Did anyone imply that of the UK only England opposed Germany in WW2?

[AULD YIN]

1 minute ago, Zapp said:

Did anyone imply that of the UK only England opposed Germany in WW2?

If you watch any american wartime newsreels of the war 90% of the time it was england who was at war, even the german newsreels said england  (bombers song etc), modern progs are not any better that was my point ,nowhere did i imply it was a members response ,i said most people

[Zapp]

I dont think anybody nowadays or back then believed England fought Germany alone.

[AULD YIN]

3 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I dont think anybody nowadays thinks England fought Germany alone.

Well i will not try to alter your thinking ,all i will say is watch the progs now that it has been brought to your attention you may just notice it.

[Zapp]

I know what it is you're talking about but I still dont think anyone actually thought or thinks that only England was involved.   

[AULD YIN]

5 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I know what it is you're talking about but I still dont think anyone actually thought or thinks that only England was involved.   

i think most just take it for granted  if they say england that means GB , britain, united kingdom?