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Ultrastu

Very long shot .

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Interesting you say no you would not take the shot, all the calculations for any shot at any distance have to be done. I don't know how accimplished a shot you are but if I practiced shooting at long range with the correct equipment I would have done the same. George Digweed is truly an accomplished and talented man when it comes to shooting and can shoot beyond most of us but even he cannot guarantee every one is dead in the air. 

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3 hours ago, Dangerous Brian said:

Been thinking on this since posting the other day. A lot of good points made on both sides of the fence; difficult to say whether they are acknowledged or not. I have probably moved my position slightly since reading all the fors and againsts. So as every day is a school day, the thread has proved useful. So, as far as I can see (following drivel more for my benefit and anyone who has the time to read it):

A shot was taken to land intended to land in the kill zone. To sub 12 shooters that would be roughly a 10p piece, a .25 50fpe changes that somewhat. Saying the shot was a miss or fail as Stu didn't hit exactly where he intended is similar to aiming for the centre of the 10p piece and hitting the lower left portion then calling that a fail. Practice is key. We take on live quarry when we feel we can reasonably make the shot whether that is a 10p circle at 30yds with <12 fpe or a  larger area at 150yds with 50fpe. I think Stu was reasonably happy with the shot as he had practiced and knew the range. This left wind to judge; more range= more difficult but is helped with a bigger kill zone to play with. OK Stu misjudged the wind but still landed a shot in the zone using up all of his leeway. This can happen with any shot taken in the wind.

Once the pellet is in the air there is nothing more to be done. For a .22 at <12fpe, travel time is around the 0.2 seconds mark for usual airgun distances and a bit less for .177. For a 50fpe .25 at 150yds that time is getting on for a little under a second. That is a long time for a rabbit to stay still for which starts to put the shot into gambling territory. Where you draw the line on how much of a gamble you take is a very personal one. Could I criticize Stu for taking the shot? Probably not as I will never know the full facts. Would I take the shot myself after practicing at the same range? No.

 

This topic has certainly rumbled on, and i think this is a very good post.

Stu was quoted from a while back, shooting cans @100 yards, then he carried on practicing achieving 150 yards!! I've watched a couple of video's of people shooting long range with FAC air rifles on small gongs and eggs and find it amazing that air rifles can do this.

The big thing here is practice, knowing your gear the range needs to be bang on , had he been 5/10 yards out and he isn't getting anywhere near hitting the rabbit, this is why I don't think it was an unwise shot, the practice needed to even think about taking the shot means you know you can make it.

The wind which can easily change was misread or changed? 

It's certainly got people talking which is good.

@Ultrastu so stu how often do you shoot cans at this range then? Certainly shows that you need to watch your backstops with your FX

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Its interesting that the issue raised seems to be because it's an air rifle that has been used. When it's 260 rips shooting at 400 yds it seems to solicit a different response.

 

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17 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its interesting that the issue raised seems to be because it's an air rifle that has been used. When it's 260 rips shooting at 400 yds it seems to solicit a different response.

 

you wont see their poor shots and wildlife dragging themselves into the undergrowth??

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1 minute ago, andrewluke said:

you wont see their poor shots and wildlife dragging themselves into the undergrowth??

Chances are we won't see yours either, likewise with mine. :good:

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14 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

you wont see their poor shots and wildlife dragging themselves into the undergrowth??

What they don't miss? 

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Just now, Mice! said:

This topic has certainly rumbled on, and i think this is a very good post.

Stu was quoted from a while back, shooting cans @100 yards, then he carried on practicing achieving 150 yards!! I've watched a couple of video's of people shooting long range with FAC air rifles on small gongs and eggs and find it amazing that air rifles can do this.

The big thing here is practice, knowing your gear the range needs to be bang on , had he been 5/10 yards out and he isn't getting anywhere near hitting the rabbit, this is why I don't think it was an unwise shot, the practice needed to even think about taking the shot means you know you can make it.

The wind which can easily change was misread or changed? 

It's certainly got people talking which is good.

@Ultrastu so stu how often do you shoot cans at this range then? Certainly shows that you need to watch your backstops with your FX

Thanks mice .

I practice quite often ..

I practice in the wind confirming the data that chair gun gives and how the different mph of the wind alters poi,at different angles and elevations . (Who knows that if the exact same wind blows from the right as from the left .the poi will be different. Due to the rotational spin of the pellet . (And the faster the twist rate the more pronounced the difference) 

I practice with all my guns and know their limitations in terms of accuracy and consistency .

The fx .25 is by FAAAAAAR  the most consistent  at the longest ranges .

What's also interesting  is i compare it to my mates fx .22 fac .putting them head to head .and have found some very interesting things at 100 yds plus .

For instance my .25 has a slightly higher bc than my mates .22 . he runs his around 930 fps. Mine at 885 fps .

The .22 up to around 100 yds drifts slightly less in the wind than the .25 bit the dispersion is generally a bit larger .

Its all very fascinating. 

I dont post about every shot i take and be assured i practice  plenty with all my guns and consider my  hunting shots carefully before firing .

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49 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

you wont see their poor shots and wildlife dragging themselves into the undergrowth??

My phone is playing up, but i managed to watch the first few shots, the fox at 335 yards needed a follow up shot?? But all the 6/7 shots I saw were outstanding, well beyond me, probably most people? but i wouldn't manage a 40 yard shot because I don't shoot beyond 30, and don't practice nearly enough at longer ranges, but i shoot within my limits.

Others are pushing the limits, sounds strange but I've been thinking of getting a .177 so i can push to 40-50 yards, others think this is normal but it's double the distance i shoot.

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On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 15:53, B725 said:

Interesting you say no you would not take the shot, all the calculations for any shot at any distance have to be done. I don't know how accimplished a shot you are but if I practiced shooting at long range with the correct equipment I would have done the same. George Digweed is truly an accomplished and talented man when it comes to shooting and can shoot beyond most of us but even he cannot guarantee every one is dead in the air. 

Practice is an essential part of it. Lots of practice with the right kit would see the shot landing where intended on a stationary target. The point I was trying to make and obviously failed was I am pretty confident that Stu could get within the kill zone pretty consistently as long as nothing else changed. The only problem I could see was that the pellet takes such a long time to get to the target there is a very good chance that the target has moved so the pellet would hit outside the zone.

I have no idea how long it takes a 260 to cover 400yds but would imagine the kill zone on a rabbit would be quite a large area and the bullet would arrive pretty quickly.- would it still hit the kill zone if the target moved? No idea- that is for whoever is squeezing the trigger to decide.

Trying to compare a shotgun pattern with an air rifle pellet strike (OK a big one in this case) is not really fair. With a shotgun you arrange a collision between the target and the pattern, which can be ca. 30 inches diameter allowing for quite a lot of target movement in addition to forward allowance. With the rifle you attempt to put one shot on the target kill zone (however large or small that is). Both George, Stu and many others could outshoot me- their talent is not in question (not from me anyway), but it doesn't matter how good you are if the target has enough time to move off before the pellet arrives. As I said in my previous post I don't know all the facts of the shot. If Stu was happy that bugs was going to stay put long enough for the pellet to get there then that particular box is ticked and all that remains is ability  to read the wind and judge the drop, which we know he can do.

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Cheers Brian/b725 .This particular rabbit was doing a lot of sitting and not moving ..he sat and didnt move a muscle for 5 mins .then mived to the tree and did the same .

I watched, made my calculations,decided the shot was on and made it .all the while he didnt budge a jot .

Doesnt usually happen like that .but did this time .

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3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Cheers Brian/b725 .This particular rabbit was doing a lot of sitting and not moving ..he sat and didnt move a muscle for 5 mins .then mived to the tree and did the same .

I watched, made my calculations,decided the shot was on and made it .all the while he didnt budge a jot .

Doesnt usually happen like that .but did this time .

what usually happens???

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2 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

what usually happens???

Have you never been shooting rabbits? They don't tend to sit still for long periods of time, or they'll sit still then another one comes along and chases it.

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