dodeer Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 Waitrose have now stopped stocking game birds shot with lead shot. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/29/experts-call-for-ban-on-lead-shot-as-waitrose-overhauls-sale-of-game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) It quotes Swift as chair of the "lead ammunition group" (LAG) if memory serves? This was a government appointed body, which I believe? Ceased to have any official government status, some time after a report was presented and subsequently discredited, as biased (half the group refused to ratify, distanced themselves from the report and resigned because of the alleged bias of Swift) and consequently was "kicked into the long grass" by the government......so the so called "lead ammunition group" quoted in the article is, it would seem unofficial, and nothing more than Swifts private campaign group! It also quotes Debbie Paine, who it identifies as an "independent toxicology expert"!.... She was, at the time (and possibly still is?) an employee of the the Wilfowl and Wetlands trust (WWT) and an original member of Swifts official government approved lead ammunition group (and seemingly latterly Swifts private LAG) she was I understand, a signatory of Swifts biased/discredited LAG report?.................(as she has at least an association with the WWT it's not difficult to connect an Anti lead shot stance and shooting wildfowl is it?) Independent? It appears not! Oh! And the article is in the Guardian!!! 😂 Edited July 29, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, panoma1 said: It quotes Swift as chair of the "lead ammunition group" (LAG) if memory serves? This was a government appointed body, which I believe? Ceased to have any official government status, some time after a report was presented and subsequently discredited, as biased (half the group refused to ratify, distanced themselves from the report and resigned because of the alleged bias of Swift) and consequently was "kicked into the long grass" by the government......so the so called "lead ammunition group" quoted in the article is, it would seem unofficial, and nothing more than Swifts private campaign group! It also quotes Debbie Paine, who it identifies as an "independent toxicology expert"!.... She was, at the time (and possibly still is?) an employee of the the Wilfowl and Wetlands trust (WWT) and an original member of Swifts official government approved lead ammunition group (and seemingly latterly Swifts private LAG) she was I understand, a signatory of Swifts biased/discredited LAG report?.................(as she has at least an association with the WWT it's not difficult to connect an Anti lead shot stance and shooting wildfowl is it?) Independent? It appears not! Oh! And the article is in the Guardian!!! 😂 This. Our shooting organisations and their respective 'eat game' initiatives, should be all over this like a rash, and make the reports of the findings clear to the relevant supermarkets. It's simply backdoor legislation. Edited July 29, 2019 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 I think we really do need a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 Anybody can call themselves an expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) After the official DEFRA/Government LAG's final report was rejected by the government, the LAG ceased to exist, Swift! Pain et al, didn't like their report being rejected, so another, this time private LAG emerged, again with Swift as chair, but the members were now all anti lead (as half the other stakeholders had resigned, before the final report, which they reportedly strongly disagreed with, was presented to DEFRA, citing Swifts bias as the reason) so they are now more properly described as the Anti Lead Ammunition Group (ALAG).....alongside this new ALAG, a debating group called the Oxford Lead Symposium appeared!....if you check those named in the link above, by dodear, to the Guardian article.......some of their names also appear in the the Oxford Lead Symposium.... Swift Green Pain Cromie Krebs Hubrect Perrins Newton Google.....Oxford lead symposium and the Lead Ammunition Group, they appear one in the same.......a private lobby group of mostly protectionists, set up to get lead shot banned! Oh! And for good measure Mark Avery was an original member of to LAG! Edited July 30, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Also here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7299583/Waitrose-ends-sale-game-birds-shot-toxic-lead-experts-call-Government-ban-use.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/29/experts-call-for-ban-on-lead-shot-as-waitrose-overhauls-sale-of-game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 "The move has been praised by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), whose spokesman told the newspaper that Waitrose 'deserve huge congratulations'. " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dibble said: "The move has been praised by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), whose spokesman told the newspaper that Waitrose 'deserve huge congratulations'. " ? That is the bit that puzzled me. Initially I thought that they were praising Waitrose's move to supply game - but the article doesn't read that way. Perhaps someone from the BASC would like to clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Shame they can’t stop the use of plastics so abruptly! I read a while back that apparently there was more lead in chocolate than game meats. Are they to ban chocolate too then? apparently there are still trace amounts of lead on petrol, are they to close all their forecourts too? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/theres-still-lead-in-your-unleaded-gasoline-f0124ebdcb17/amp/ https://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/british-association-for-shooting-and-conservation-basc/article/basc-lead-in-game-meat-fears-should-not-be-exaggerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) Misleading title on this thread? As I read it, Waitrose is NOT banning the sale of game, but is instead phasing out sales of game that has been shot with lead by 20/21 season. Not the same thing. And the EU is going the same way. Already, a lot of pigeons are shot with steel, not least because the game dealers give a much better price for them in comparison with birds containing lead. Edited July 30, 2019 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: That is the bit that puzzled me. Initially I thought that they were praising Waitrose's move to supply game - but the article doesn't read that way. Perhaps someone from the BASC would like to clarify? No doubt either very poor journalism or cynically deliberate mis-allocation of the quote. In the Guardian article it attributes the quote to Shifty, former BASC chief exec. The Fail The move has been praised by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), whose spokesman told the newspaper that Waitrose 'deserve huge congratulations'. The communist worker Guardian John Swift, a former chief executive of the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) who chairs the Lead Ammunition Group, welcomed Waitrose’s move, but said the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs must take action to phase out lead shot. “Waitrose deserve huge congratulations and they are showing real leadership and we need more of it,” he said. “The only way we can get rid of all these risks is to replace lead ammunition. Defra has got to pull its finger out and get the stakeholders around the table discussing the way forward.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 I have just called BASC to bring this to their attention. Waiting for someone in the press office to call me back, as they are not in work yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Someone should mention to Waitrose that steel shot is much more likely to break the customer's teeth so they might get sued. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Penelope said: I have just called BASC to bring this to their attention. Waiting for someone in the press office to call me back, as they are not in work yet. From your previous post, it would look like someone has quoted Swift as BASC, not EX BASC. Certainly it would be good for BASC to; know they are being wrongly quoted clarify their position So well done for bringing it to their attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameking Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Whilst we know lead is not good for you, the amount of lead in other everyday foodstuffs is much greater than in shot game (beer, cereals etc etc) as to be negligible. The oft quoted wildfowl issue is overstated and you do not see the countryside littered with dying wildfowl🙄 This is, to quote Chris Packham 'Fake news'. Buy your game from your local shoot rather than Waitrose ( only the Islington crowd can worry about this for their dinner parties😝) IIRC Denmark overturned their lead ban on shooting of wildfowl due to welfare issues about steel not killing as cleanly as lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Isn’t this topic already running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 It beggars belief that with a media centre, they aren’t aware of it already! Why are we forever on the backfoot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Scully said: It beggars belief that with a media centre, they aren’t aware of it already! Why are we forever on the backfoot? They are aware and on the case with the The Daily Fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Penelope said: They are aware and on the case with the The Daily Fail. BASC should investigate suing the Daily Fail! Or at least report them to the IPSO and force them to print a prominent full retraction! Stating that this is the private view of Swift.......not that of BASC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted July 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Kalahari said: Someone should mention to Waitrose that steel shot is much more likely to break the customer's teeth so they might get sued. David. Yes good point and then steel shot birds will not be allowed to be sold for H&S reasons then the whole game industry would be in the poop. Maybe i am wrong though. 1 hour ago, Scully said: Isn’t this topic already running? Don't know where Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 "in the poop " That is part of the problem with these anti-lead people. Thwy assume that if you eat a pellet of lead, you absorb all that lead. Theyhave never bothered to subtact the weight "in the poop" have they. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Think the damage is done now, I doubt Waitrose will do a U-turn on this and more will now follow, its not surprising what fake news can achieve, especially when its not challenged, looks like another successful attempt to weaken shooting by the back door, death by a thousand cuts someone on here said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 hours ago, dodeer said: Don't know where My mistake, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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