What to do if stopped by the police?

[GingerCat]

 

14 minutes ago, The Burpster said:

 if it is a plain clothes officer politely ask them to get a uniformed officer to join them. 

Or to see their warrant card. 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by GingerCat

[The Burpster]

2 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

 

Or to see their warrant card. 

 

Depends In my experience!  some of the Warrant cards I have seen look they were made in Disneyworld and Are easily forged my last one before I retired was so battered you could hardly make out any of the writing on it. 

If someone is going to go to the trouble of trying to dupe you they will have that angle covered. In today’s world printers that print on plastic are cheap and easily obtainable....

[GingerCat]

22 minutes ago, The Burpster said:

Depends In my experience!  some of the Warrant cards I have seen look they were made in Disneyworld and Are easily forged my last one before I retired was so battered you could hardly make out any of the writing on it. 

If someone is going to go to the trouble of trying to dupe you they will have that angle covered. In today’s world printers that print on plastic are cheap and easily obtainable....

The force issue radio, pava spray, baton and crappy job car tend to be big giveaways also. 

[panoma1]

9 hours ago, Westley said:

I shoot on the 'urban fringe' and as a result it can draw a lot of unwanted attention from people, especially the right to roam, as long as you have a dog, brigade. I just contact the local Police control room and create a log, telling them all the details and my mobile number, also when I will be shooting. I simply call them back when I have finished and close the log. I have never had the Police interrupt my shooting yet.

 The police are already making up rules that erode and take away shooters/gun owners freedoms, why give away those freedoms voluntarily? 

[Boristhedog]

I was on my way home from a stalking trip, with a couple of hours to go I pulled into a garage for a coffee. Dressed in stalking suitable clothing with my rifle bolt in a leather holder on my belt. Inside the garage shop were some 8 to 10 police officers having a break, coffee and sandwiches etc. I walked over to the Costa machine and while the coffee was being made one of the policemen walked over and asked whether I had a knife on my belt, the top of the holder being covered by my flapping shirt.  I said no and that it was a rifle bolt, explaining where I had been and what I had been doing. That’s ok he said, had it been a knife I would have had to ask more questions but he and his colleagues were comfortable about the rifle in the car. 

[panoma1]

8 minutes ago, Boristhedog said:

I was on my way home from a stalking trip, with a couple of hours to go I pulled into a garage for a coffee. Dressed in stalking suitable clothing with my rifle bolt in a leather holder on my belt. Inside the garage shop were some 8 to 10 police officers having a break, coffee and sandwiches etc. I walked over to the Costa machine and while the coffee was being made one of the policemen walked over and asked whether I had a knife on my belt, the top of the holder being covered by my flapping shirt.  I said no and that it was a rifle bolt, explaining where I had been and what I had been doing. That’s ok he said, had it been a knife I would have had to ask more questions but he and his colleagues were comfortable about the rifle in the car. 

Would it not be reasonable for a stalker to have a knife suitable for gralloching in the field about his person?

[mel b3]

24 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Would it not be reasonable for a stalker to have a knife suitable for gralloching in the field about his person?

The stalker would probably have good reason, and would most probably avoid prosecution , but common sense would say leave it in the car. Just my take on things as the lover of a quiet life. 

[wascal]

26 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Would it not be reasonable for a stalker to have a knife suitable for gralloching in the field about his person?

Yes ,that would have come out during the "more" questions bit

[GingerCat]

45 minutes ago, wascal said:

Yes ,that would have come out during the "more" questions bit

You forget a cop knows immediately what everyone is doing without talking to them, obviously. 

[manthing]

If in any doubt about a police persons credibility offer to have then follow you to a station where you'll gladly turn over your items to the desk Sargent, explain to them you're concerned about their credentials and don't feel comfortable in the situation. If they agree and say "OK well go to X and speak to the sarge", fine, if they get stroppy your fears were probably correct. What you do in the latter situation is up to you. 

[GingerCat]

39 minutes ago, manthing said:

If in any doubt about a police persons credibility offer to have then follow you to a station where you'll gladly turn over your items to the desk Sargent, explain to them you're concerned about their credentials and don't feel comfortable in the situation. If they agree and say "OK well go to X and speak to the sarge", fine, if they get stroppy your fears were probably correct. What you do in the latter situation is up to you. 

Not good advice.

If you doubt it's a real cop call 999. If they are real you'll get a very quick response. 

No cop is going to follow you to a station and to suggest "what you do if they don't is up to you" as if a cop not following you to a station is somehow proof that they are not, is not very responsible at the least and will absolutely not help the individual they are speaking to. 

[ordnance]

Quote

NO, you don't...YOU are responsible for your guns and if you have any doubts about the officer or his competence TELL HIM, and ask him to get a Firearms Officer out to handle the situation!

That would not be a issue here they all carry firearms, and i assume are aware of how to safely handle firearms.

Quote

I believe the gun laws in NI are different to those in the rest of the uk?

Some regarding some guns you can have, apart form that there would not be much difference. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by ordnance

[Westley]

9 hours ago, panoma1 said:

 The police are already making up rules that erode and take away shooters/gun owners freedoms, why give away those freedoms voluntarily? 

SIMPLE really  !  it avoids unnecessary conflict which then allows me to shoot unhindered. It has worked for over 30 years so I see no need to change things.  I agree entirely that the Police are making up the rules as they go along, but I see my course of action as a common courtesy, much the same as notifying the landowner that I will be shooting. Why spend an hour or so of good shooting time explaining what I am doing and why,  for the sake of a 5 minute phone call.

[panoma1]

36 minutes ago, Westley said:

SIMPLE really  !  it avoids unnecessary conflict which then allows me to shoot unhindered. It has worked for over 30 years so I see no need to change things.  I agree entirely that the Police are making up the rules as they go along, but I see my course of action as a common courtesy, much the same as notifying the landowner that I will be shooting. Why spend an hour or so of good shooting time explaining what I am doing and why,  for the sake of a 5 minute phone call.

I have seen all too often, what people give as a common courtesy becomes mandatory....I have no problem cooperating with the law, but I will not contribute to the police introducing regulation through the backdoor!..........primarily for my own future convenience but also because what we do as individuals will probably impact adversely on others!

I quite agree that a phone call to the farmer is a sensible common courtesy, but complying with the lawful requirements of the regulatory authority is enough....we shouldn't voluntarily give them more than the law requires!

Just my opinion.

[Westley]

7 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I have seen all too often, what people give as a common courtesy becomes mandatory....I have no problem cooperating with the law, but I will not contribute to the police introducing regulation through the backdoor!..........primarily for my own future convenience but also because what we do as individuals will probably impact adversely on others!

I quite agree that a phone call to the farmer is a sensible common courtesy, but complying with the lawful requirements of the regulatory authority is enough....we shouldn't voluntarily give them more than the law requires!

Just my opinion.

So, you will NOT be getting a Doctors letter then   ?

[panoma1]

1 minute ago, Westley said:

So, you will NOT be getting a Doctors letter then   ?

No, not until the law/HO guidence requires it! I refused last year when when the GP's surgery rang asking for payment, my licence was approved despite this!

[bornfree]

We were rabbit shooting from the back of a pickup one night and the police drove in to the field gateway so our driver went across to them. Two coppers got out and asked us if we had seen anyone about as some contractors on another part of the farm had had their van broken in to. There was three of us in the back of the truck one holding a lamp and two  holding autos. No problems just chatting then another police car pulls up, one young copper gets out pulls out his taser spreads his legs aims at us screaming drop your weapons. It frightened the life out of me but luckily the other two coppers calmed him down.

[London Best]

Been watching too many American tv shows, obviously.

[ordnance]

Basically you do what they tell you to do, if you are not happy you complain later. 

[bluesj]

3 hours ago, Westley said:

SIMPLE really  !  it avoids unnecessary conflict which then allows me to shoot unhindered. It has worked for over 30 years so I see no need to change things.  I agree entirely that the Police are making up the rules as they go along, but I see my course of action as a common courtesy, much the same as notifying the landowner that I will be shooting. Why spend an hour or so of good shooting time explaining what I am doing and why,  for the sake of a 5 minute phone call.

You would waste more than an hour of shooting time if you ring the 101 number around here!

[Jonno243]

On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 09:32, panoma1 said:

Would it not be reasonable for a stalker to have a knife suitable for gralloching in the field about his person?

In the field, yes.

In a roadside service station, whilst making coffee, on the homeward leg of the journey? Not so much.

You wouldn't take your loaded rifle, binoculars, dragging strap, saw etc in to the services, why would you take your knife.....?

[panoma1]

49 minutes ago, Jonno243 said:

In the field, yes.

In a roadside service station, whilst making coffee, on the homeward leg of the journey? Not so much.

You wouldn't take your loaded rifle, binoculars, dragging strap, saw etc in to the services, why would you take your knife.....?

Because it's on yer belt?.....loaded rifle?? No...unloaded rifle with bolt removed in slip yes! the rest why not? 

[Big Mat]

4 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Because it's on yer belt?.....loaded rifle?? No...unloaded rifle with bolt removed in slip yes! the rest why not? 

Because it takes all of 10 seconds to take the knife out and shove it in the glove box or where ever to avoid a possible issue?

[manthing]

6 hours ago, Jonno243 said:

In the field, yes.

In a roadside service station, whilst making coffee, on the homeward leg of the journey? Not so much.

 

Agreed

Its not like you need to carry it. The knife I carry around the farm is not my pocket knife that goes almost everywhere else with me. 

[Dekers]

On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 07:58, The Burpster said:

What makes you think

 

a) that an AFO knows anything about sporting firearms? (Believe me they do not! I was on earlies at Newark many years ago when 2 AFOs bought several sporting guns in from a house following the arrest of the owner for Assault, they had no idea one of these shotguns was a Browning grade 5 and one a Perazzi. They also didn’t know how to take them apart so I did it for them). And  The vast number of normal police officers don't have a clue about firearms and their use, handling or workings, they don't even know what a FAC looks like! A Firearms Officer is far better trained, I never said they were experts in every gun!

b) adopting a stance that “you are an incompetent officer, call someone who knows what they are doing” will gain you anything other than a world of pain.... he radios in stating “there is a man here that will not hand his firearm over and I don’t know if it’s loaded!” Will get you a really impressive response I can assure you. Nearly every officer I have known and worked with knows better than to try and do something they are not trained or competent at and if they aren’t confident handling a sporting gun they will request someone who does if it’s needed.  It is perfectly possible to be civil and sensible when dealing with the police, why are you suggesting an incident is building!?

As stated above it is well within any Constable’s powers to ask you to hand over your guns, I would seriously suggest you comply otherwise you will be committing an offence. 

That said in this day and age the only cautionary tale I will add to this is DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES hand over a gun to anyone who is not CLEARLY  NOT a Police Officer or has NOT shown you a credible ID (bearing in mind that impersonating Officers is a well known tactic of organised criminals and terrorist sympathisers), if it is a plain clothes officer politely ask them to get a uniformed officer to join them. 

If you want to roll over then get on with it, there is no issue in adopting a sensible attitude and asking any officer you are concerned about to get someone better qualified to help him.

You are responsible for your guns, nobody suggested starting a war with the police, but if you have doubts about the competence of an alleged police officer then ask him to get someone who is better qualified.

It is certainly within the power of an officer to ask you to hand over your guns, it is also within your power and rights to refuse if you have concerns!