Brexit - merged threads

[Mice!]

I saw the clip today of Gove laying into Corbyn in the house of commons, how do the Tories go from that, to asking for his help??

This is either utter desperation or the sneakiest plan ever?

If labour and SNP get there act together this could be very dangerous, neither want to leave European rule.

[henry d]

And the SNP need a second referendum so they can leave the rUK

[Newbie to this]

There has been a tie vote 310 to 310 on whether to hold more useless indicative votes on Brexit, which was then stopped by Bercow who voted against it, with the government. 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

There has been a tie vote 310 to 310 on whether to hold more useless indicative votes on Brexit, which was then stopped by Bercow who voted against it, with the government. 

Hilarious ! 
Theyve had a vote to decide whether or not to have more votes, and lost, to themselves , with the help of the impartial speaker 😆

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good grief!

[oowee]

59 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Cant even say it on a public forum, might get arrested for a hate crime.
Something like those type of PC attitudes 🙈🙊

 

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I completely agree walshie and you are of course correct, I should have stated Far right, I think a swing right from where we are as a country at the moment would be an excellent thing to happen. 

For a start, holding votes and referendums but only actioning them if they agree with the result, if they don't, they blame it on populism, brand anyone who voted the "wrong" way racist and xenophobic and frustrate, delay and hold more votes until they get the "right" answer. 

Ahh got you now. You mean democracy. 

 

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

Ahh got you now. You mean democracy banana republican corrupt oligarchy.

There you go, the correct description of what the EU means as democracy.
For the few, NOT the many 

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

There you go, the correct description of what the EU means as democracy.
For the few, NOT the many 

Thats the great thing with the EU it allows a second review if you think you have been treated unfairly by our UK democracy you can refer it to the ECJ. Law for everyone. 

[Raja Clavata]

I see the cat has taken misquoting to a whole new level 😛

The discussion on the thread took an interesting twist earlier and I'm not sure I followed everything.

Was the assertion that it's the loony leftists fault that some people are moving further and further right? If so what happened to people being accountable for their own choices.

I appreciate this is a sensitive issue but I'm left wondering how far right you need to go before you do become a bonafide racist xenophobic nut job (by definition).

The other point that sits rather uncomfortably with me is the rhetoric around democracy being perverted by thwarting Brexit and how previous generations fought for that democracy against, err how do I put this, far right nut-jobs in Germany.

I'm not necessarily looking for responses on these points and certainly not looking for confrontation but I'm confident I'm not the only one who considered the above...

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

I see the cat has taken misquoting to a whole new level 😛

The discussion on the thread took an interesting twist earlier and I'm not sure I followed everything.

Was the assertion that it's the loony leftists fault that some people are moving further and further right? If so what happened to people being accountable for their own choices.

I appreciate this is a sensitive issue but I'm left wondering how far right you need to go before you do become a bonafide racist xenophobic nut job (by definition).

The other point that sits rather uncomfortably with me is the rhetoric around democracy being perverted by thwarting Brexit and how previous generations fought for that democracy against, err how do I put this, far right nut-jobs in Germany.

I'm not necessarily looking for responses on these points and certainly not looking for confrontation but I'm confident I'm not the only one who considered the above...

I don't blame the left for the far rights actions, but in my opinion the policy that is being set by them is without a doubt fueling them. 

If brexit is thawed as is currently happening, there is no doubt democracy is being perverted, the leave vote was the biggest democratic decision ever given by the people of the UK to parliament, so if they ignore it, I don't think there's been a bigger betrayal in living memory. 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't blame the left for the far rights actions, but in my opinion the policy that is being set by them is without a doubt fueling them. 

If brexit is thawed as is currently happening, there is no doubt democracy is being perverted, the leave vote was the biggest democratic decision ever given by the people of the UK to parliament, so if they ignore it, I don't think there's been a bigger betrayal in living memory. 

You cannot blame the rise of far right activity on others. There are no excuses for extremists.

The problem with Brexit is nothing to do with the choice people have made its a problem with the choice that was offered. I don't believe anyone wants to ignore the vote the difficulty is interpreting what it means. 

[12gauge82]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

You cannot blame the rise of far right activity on others. There are no excuses for extremists.

The problem with Brexit is nothing to do with the choice people have made its a problem with the choice that was offered. I don't believe anyone wants to ignore the vote the difficulty is interpreting what it means. 

Did you read what I said? I explicitly said I don't blame the left, but the policy's they set fuels the right. 

The problem with brexit is that if government had no intention of delivering on a leave outcome, they shouldn't of held the vote, but they did! 

[CZ550Kevlar]

39 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Did you read what I said? I explicitly said I don't blame the left, but the policy's they set fuels the right. 

The problem with brexit is that if government had no intention of delivering on a leave outcome, they shouldn't of held the vote, but they did! 

Think they call it laying lip service, they dug themselves a hole, called a referendum, dug a deeper hole and now have called in a Marxist piece of "insert word here" to well and truly bury brexit.

customs union........ why? It makes no sense and has to be worse than no deal AND even now we can't have a no deal due to them pushing this law through tonight.

 

I'm lost for words now with this whole process, what sort of country do we really live in now?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

see the cat has taken misquoting to a whole new leve

Not misquoting, correcting the errors 😁

 

52 minutes ago, oowee said:

You cannot blame the rise of far right activity on others. There are no excuses for extremists

That's an interesting analysis, but completely wrong. 

First of all, what would the far right have a problem with, if we had a far right government, surely the foe then would be the far left? 

One cannot exist without the other, so are most definitely responsible for each other, antifa are an excellent example of this, an extreme left wing organisation funded by our old friend soros, if they had no fascists to fight, they wouldn't exist surely? 

Second point, extremists, they are only extremists until they are in control/power, then they become the status quo, you could view the socialist government of say Venezuela or Cuba as left wing extremists, but to the people who live there its normality. 

Let's calm down with the 'far right' talk, it's only viewed that way because we've drifted so far to the left in our society. 

[JRDS]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

You cannot blame the rise of far right activity on others. There are no excuses for extremists.

The problem with Brexit is nothing to do with the choice people have made its a problem with the choice that was offered. I don't believe anyone wants to ignore the vote the difficulty is interpreting what it means.  

God you keep harping on, we had months of TV debates and the 'leaflet' it meant Leaving the ******* EU and all it's insitutions as stated in the official (illegal) Govt leaflet and all subsequent TV debates, by god can't we tell you were an (Un) Civil Servant!! 

[Raja Clavata]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

One cannot exist without the other, so are most definitely responsible for each other, antifa are an excellent example of this, an extreme left wing organisation funded by our old friend soros, if they had no fascists to fight, they wouldn't exist surely? 

Second point, extremists, they are only extremists until they are in control/power, then they become the status quo, you could view the socialist government of say Venezuela or Cuba as left wing extremists, but to the people who live there its normality. 

Let's calm down with the 'far right' talk, it's only viewed that way because we've drifted so far to the left in our society. 

Isn't it also about perspective? I hear other people elsewhere claiming that Labour have drifted left and the Tories to the right to such extents that the middle ground is largely unrepresented. If that's true then the new Change UK party could do better than some predict.

[12gauge82]

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Isn't it also about perspective? I hear other people elsewhere claiming that Labour have drifted left and the Tories to the right to such extents that the middle ground is largely unrepresented. If that's true then the new Change UK party could do better than some predict.

I think there's a glaring viod ready to be filled by a new political party, although I think much of the problem is there is actually very little difference between labour and the Conservatives at the moment and the centre is somewhere to the right of the Cons. 

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think there's a glaring viod ready to be filled by a new political party, although I think much of the problem is there is actually very little difference between labour and the Conservatives at the moment and the centre is somewhere to the right of the Cons. 

I think your right with the tories broken and labour chasing rainbows we need a new centre ground (just a little left of centre of course)  Tony is welcome back any day of the week. 

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think much of the problem is there is actually very little difference between labour and the Conservatives at the moment and the centre is somewhere to the right of the Cons

Interesting idea;

Cons are certainly a lot like Blairite Labour , but in my view Corbynite Labour (with its nationalisation, high taxation and state control aspects) is much further to the left.

Centre ?  Well - somewhere midway between the two 'extremes' ...........

'Centre ' cannot be to the right of both .......

Personally I favour a 'Thatcherite ' Tory stance.

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

I think your right with the tories broken and labour chasing rainbows we need a new centre ground (just a little left of centre of course)  Tony is welcome back any day of the week. 

I take it back, anyone but Blair🙏lol

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Tony is welcome back any day of the week. 

Tony is as welcome as bad toothache!

[12gauge82]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

Interesting idea;

Cons are certainly a lot like Blairite Labour , but in my view Corbynite Labour (with its nationalisation, high taxation and state control aspects) is much further to the left.

Centre ?  Well - somewhere midway between the two 'extremes' ...........

'Centre ' cannot be to the right of both .......

Personally I favour a 'Thatcherite ' Tory stance.

Yes your probably right. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, CZ550Kevlar said:

customs union........ why? It makes no sense and has to be worse than no deal AND even now we can't have a no deal due to them pushing this law through tonight.

What law have they passed now??

[CZ550Kevlar]

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

What law have they passed now??

The backbenchers cooper and letwin are attempting to push a law through the commons and then the lords under fastrack which stops a no deal brexit on the 12th.

a right stitch up.

Edited April 3, 2019 by CZ550Kevlar

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I see the cat has taken misquoting to a whole new level 😛

The discussion on the thread took an interesting twist earlier and I'm not sure I followed everything.

Was the assertion that it's the loony leftists fault that some people are moving further and further right? If so what happened to people being accountable for their own choices.

I appreciate this is a sensitive issue but I'm left wondering how far right you need to go before you do become a bonafide racist xenophobic nut job (by definition).

The other point that sits rather uncomfortably with me is the rhetoric around democracy being perverted by thwarting Brexit and how previous generations fought for that democracy against, err how do I put this, far right nut-jobs in Germany.

I'm not necessarily looking for responses on these points and certainly not looking for confrontation but I'm confident I'm not the only one who considered the above...

Well for me Mr Corbyn is loony left, thinks Venezuela works great, sympathises with terrorists, yes no maybe?

As to where the Tories are? Probably left of middle maybe, which compared to the loony left seems far right? Anyone still with me, which probably makes the likes of BNP extremely right? We certainly don't need extreme anything but something is bound to change, it has too.