Brexit - merged threads

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sorry but the issues with declining sales for JLR in China has next to nothing to do with diesel. Neither does it have anything to do with Brexit - I do not believe anyone was suggesting that, were they.

If you really don't accept that uncertainty over Brexit is a major concern for the manufacturing sector then this is frankly a pointless discussion.

It's not so much about the current plight but the fact that we have Brexit uncertainty makes it difficult for JLR executives to convince their board to invest / focus heavily in the UK operation as part of their restructuring and overall plan to address their problems. Not rocket science.

The main reason for falling sales in China.....because the Chinese economy has slowed down significantly! That, PLUS falling diesel sales, caused Jaguar, and OTHER car manufacturers to scale back....

Jeremy Hunt has been doing his best to bolster his pro-Brexit credentials during the leadership campaign, despite going off-script on occasion. As the Mail notes this morning however, the people bankrolling his campaign don’t exactly share his newfound enthusiasm for Brexit. Of the nine major donors to Hunt’s campaign in May, seven have also donated to pro-Remain groups and parties in recent years, accounting for almost £75,000 of Hunt’s £104,000 raised. Almost three quarters of Hunt’s total funding in May…

Andrew Law

£10,000 to Hunt

£200,000 to Stronger In in April 2016

Kenneth Costa

£10,000 to Hunt (via K J Costa Advisory Ltd)

£10,000 to Stronger In in June 2016

RTC Education Ltd

£10,000 to Hunt

£10,000 to Conservatives IN in May 2016

Some have even donated to the Lib Dems and a Labour Remain MP within the last two years:

Michael Watson

£10,000 to Hunt

£2,500 to the Liberal Democrats in Jan 2018

First Corporate Shipping Ltd

£25,000 to Hunt

£2,000 to the Lib Dems in Oct 2012

APPT Management Services Ltd

£10,000 to Hunt

£2,406.25 to Labour Remainer MP Virendra Sharma in March 2018

Overall that’s over £225,000 Hunt’s backers have donated to anti-Brexit campaigns, parties and politicians, before sticking their financial clout behind him. Tory members might well be wondering what he’s telling his hardline Remain donors that he isn’t telling them…

Source:  Guido Fawkes

[pinfireman]

In his Teesside visit today Boris took the opportunity to back what he described as a “well-written report” by Ben Houchen, Mayor of the Tees Valley advocating the introduction of ‘free ports’ to the UK to transform the coastal communities that surround the UK’s ports. Free ports are areas where tariffs do not apply, allowing companies to import, store, and re-export goods without dealing with tax or government bureaucracy. Sounds good to Guido…

Boris has promised to launch an immediate review into setting up free ports across the UK to encourage investment, and to introduce pilot free ports as soon as possible after the UK leaves the EU on 31 October. Some studies say that introducing free ports could increase employment in the North of England by 150,000. Bring it on!

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sorry but the issues with declining sales for JLR in China has next to nothing to do with diesel. Neither does it have anything to do with Brexit - I do not believe anyone was suggesting that, were they.

If you really don't accept that uncertainty over Brexit is a major concern for the manufacturing sector then this is frankly a pointless discussion.

It's not so much about the current plight but the fact that we have Brexit uncertainty makes it difficult for JLR executives to convince their board to invest / focus heavily in the UK operation as part of their restructuring and overall plan to address their problems. Not rocket science.

Nothing to do with Brexit, and everything to do with diesel sales falling, and a major dip in the Chinese economy!

Jaguar Land Rover have become the latest company to defy the doomsayers – this morning they’ve announced a billion pound investment in their Castle Bromwich plant. JLR will convert the plant to a state-of-the-art electric vehicle factory which will build an electric version of their XJ model, a luxury saloon which retails for upwards of a cool £60,000. JLR say:

“The future of mobility is electric and, as a visionary British company, we are committed to making our next generation of zero-emission vehicles in the UK.”

JLR have been hit particularly badly in recent years by the diesel emissions scandal due to their heavy reliance on diesel engines. Now they’ve finally decided to take proactive steps to adapt their business to the costly and inefficient eco-future both the UK and EU governments are determined to foist on us. Makes a change from them moaning about Brexit at least…

[pinfireman]

As Guido readers are well aware, the new set of EU leaders thrust upon us following days of secret backroom Brussels horse-trading aren’t exactly the most illustrious bunch – from the Karen Bradley of German politics to the deeply unpleasant Spanish Foreign Minister convicted of insider trading just last year. Safe to say Andrew Neil is not impressed. The poor pro-EU journalist doesn’t stand a chance…

[pinfireman]

Rumour flying around the web (and it is just a rumour!) that James Dyson,s associates were seen walking around the car plant at Swindon with Honda personnel......is Dyson going to take advantage of a ready made plant and workforce to build his electric cars?  It would make sense.....

[panoma1]

11 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Rumour flying around the web (and it is just a rumour!) that James Dyson,s associates were seen walking around the car plant at Swindon with Honda personnel......is Dyson going to take advantage of a ready made plant and workforce to build his electric cars?  It would make sense.....

Well he could afford it! 😎

[pinfireman]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Well he could afford it! 😎

True! His research and development is still in this country...he would inherit a modern plant layout, and a trained workforce! Just needs a government grant...................oops! EU says no to grants to OUR manufacturers....

[Raja Clavata]

6 hours ago, panoma1 said:

We already knew it wasn't linked to Brexit!.....So you reckon the drop in JLR vehicle sales in China had "nothing to do with" the demonisation of Diesel? Then what do you put it down to?

There was a decline in sales in China generally and JLR had fall-out from poor quality and unreliability so it hit them harder than some of the premium auto makers.

This is the industry I work in and JLR are one of our biggest clients in the UK, I am interacting with them on a daily basis.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

There was a decline in sales in China generally and JLR had fall-out from poor quality and unreliability so it hit them harder than some of the premium auto makers.

This is the industry I work in and JLR are one of our biggest clients in the UK, I am interacting with them on a daily basis.

And have you warned them of your fear of leaving the white elephant that they seem able to work around?

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And have you warned them of your fear of leaving the white elephant that they seem able to work around?

Read the full statement from their CEO.

[scutt]

poor S.E.O. 

[panoma1]

Well most reports I've read seem to believe the Diesel emissions scandal were a major factor.....certainly I have not heard anyone else claiming declining sales for JLR in China had "next to nothing" to do with the Diesel scandal! But hey ho!

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

There was a decline in sales in China generally and JLR had fall-out from poor quality and unreliability so it hit them harder than some of the premium auto makers.

This is the industry I work in and JLR are one of our biggest clients in the UK, I am interacting with them on a daily basis.

 

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, panoma1 said:

Well most reports I've read seem to believe the Diesel emissions scandal were a major factor.....certainly I have not heard anyone else claiming declining sales for JLR in China had "next to nothing" to do with the Diesel scandal! But hey ho!

 

For JLR in China diesel would have been the third most prominent reason for decline at best - behind the general slow down, issues with brand perception over quality and reliability - very different in Europe obviously.

Initially they did extremely well as by manufacturing locally they were able to tailor features to local tastes - some of the options and pricing were crazy and they milked it while they could but the impact of the quality issues coincided with the slow down and they more or less crashed and burned there. If you look at the investment they made it's not difficult to see why they had to write down the valuation of assets as the original business case simply did not hold. 

[panoma1]

If the Diesel factor was "the third most prominent reason for decline at best" where would you put Brexit in the order of reasons......which was the real thrust of my posting? 

[Raja Clavata]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

If the Diesel factor was "the third most prominent reason for decline at best" where would you put Brexit in the order of reasons......which was the real thrust of my posting? 

In China I would say it had zero effect!

I have already answered on the Brexit impact here in the UK and Europe in the last couple pages as well as some time ago.

The auto industry is going through massive changes in so many ways that things were already turbulent. For the UK Auto industry, OEMs and the various tiers of suppliers, Brexit is a bit like pouring petrol on the already smoldering fire. It relates to the uncertainty over what Brexit we get, it's difficult for anyone to invest in the UK in the auto industry at present because of this uncertainty over future tariffs which affect manufacturing and movement of labour which affects the R&D facilities mainly.

The news around the EV production and development is positive but to spin it in a way that suggests it's an endorsement of post or trans Brexit UK is a stretch, at best. JLR needed to do something about their powertrain situation and the money they have pledged here is only a percentage of what they would have had to invest to do this somewhere else. Let's be grateful of those mercies but not get carried away with it. Also be under no illusion that JLR are dangling the carrot at the UK government to get them to invest in the EV technology particularly around battery manufacture and assembly in the midlands.

[Retsdon]

9 hours ago, pinfireman said:

Nothing to do with Brexit, and everything to do with diesel sales falling, and a major dip in the Chinese economy!

Jaguar Land Rover have become the latest company to defy the doomsayers – this morning they’ve announced a billion pound investment in their Castle Bromwich plant. JLR will convert the plant to a state-of-the-art electric vehicle factory which will build an electric version of their XJ model, a luxury saloon which retails for upwards of a cool £60,000. JLR say:

“The future of mobility is electric and, as a visionary British company, we are committed to making our next generation of zero-emission vehicles in the UK.”

JLR have been hit particularly badly in recent years by the diesel emissions scandal due to their heavy reliance on diesel engines. Now they’ve finally decided to take proactive steps to adapt their business to the costly and inefficient eco-future both the UK and EU governments are determined to foist on us. Makes a change from them moaning about Brexit at least…

You do know of course that Guido Fawkes is nothing but a propaganda sheet for the hard-Brexit wing of the Leave campaign. As such it has no more validity as an original source of reference that does The Socialist Worker.

Yes, JLR is going to invest heavily in new plant and production in the Midlands. Good. But to extrapolate from JLRs decision, as the above article tries to do, that other companies will perforce follow suit and therefore warnings about damage to British industry from a hard Brexit are just made-up sh*te to thwart the will of the electorate is deliberately deceitful rubbish.

Anyway, never mind. If Johnson gets in and keeps his word (unlikely I know), it looks like a hard Brexit is coming. It'll be very interesting then though to see if  Guido Fawkes and other such publications will be prepared to own the inevitable consequences of what they've campaigned so hard for, or if they'll instead try and blame Verhofstaht, the EU, May, Corbyn, the Remainers, and farmer Jones' dog, Spot. But I think we all know the answer.

 

[poontang]

8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

This is the industry I work in and JLR are one of our biggest clients in the UK, I am interacting with them on a daily basis.

You must work for the AA 😀

[Jaymo]

4 hours ago, poontang said:

You must work for the AA 😀

That’s the most humorous comment this thread has had 🙂

[islandgun]

3 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

That’s the most humorous comment this thread has had 🙂

[Yellow Bear]

4 hours ago, poontang said:

You must work for the AA 😀

 

54 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

That’s the most humorous comment this thread has had 🙂

And  one of the most truthful

[sportsbob]

16 hours ago, pinfireman said:

In his Teesside visit today Boris took the opportunity to back what he described as a “well-written report” by Ben Houchen, Mayor of the Tees Valley advocating the introduction of ‘free ports’ to the UK to transform the coastal communities that surround the UK’s ports. Free ports are areas where tariffs do not apply, allowing companies to import, store, and re-export goods without dealing with tax or government bureaucracy. Sounds good to Guido…

Boris has promised to launch an immediate review into setting up free ports across the UK to encourage investment, and to introduce pilot free ports as soon as possible after the UK leaves the EU on 31 October. Some studies say that introducing free ports could increase employment in the North of England by 150,000. Bring it on!

This if not controlled will devastate out retail sector and starve the government of funds which will drive up income tax etc.

These Freeport`s or bonded warehouses with freight forwarding status already exist in there dozens all over the UK servicing websites such as Banggood, Wish, Aliexpress, Gearbest etc etc

The way it works is no duty or tax of any kind is paid as the the goods in the warehouses are to to be forwarded onto the country/purchaser of destination. So a manufacturer or far eastern exporter rents space in a Freeport and all the goods have had no duty etc etc paid on them, the exporter then has as many websites as they need to sell the goods directly to the public.

The buying public then become the importer of the goods and depending on the value of the goods duty and or VAT is to paid by the purchaser directly to HMRC. The seller will usually declare the goods as $1 or maybe a little more but certainly enough not attract duty and vat, the buyer now gets their cheap goods and are happy. But think about this a little deeper, the seller is an offshore business and no tax is paid on their profits to the UK, the staff who work in the warehouse almost certainly get income related benefits due to the low wage they will earn and as the buyer pays no duty or vat so the cheap goods have now been a total financial liability to the UK. 

 

15 hours ago, pinfireman said:

As Guido readers are well aware, the new set of EU leaders thrust upon us following days of secret backroom Brussels horse-trading aren’t exactly the most illustrious bunch – from the Karen Bradley of German politics to the deeply unpleasant Spanish Foreign Minister convicted of insider trading just last year. Safe to say Andrew Neil is not impressed. The poor pro-EU journalist doesn’t stand a chance…

If this true then perhaps we have nothing to fear regarding the EU Army with no guns unusable submarines and only a handful of aeroplanes 😎

[Jaymo]

5 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

This if not controlled will devastate out retail sector and starve the government of funds which will drive up income tax etc.

These Freeport`s or bonded warehouses with freight forwarding status already exist in there dozens all over the UK servicing websites such as Banggood, Wish, Aliexpress, Gearbest etc etc

The way it works is no duty or tax of any kind is paid as the the goods in the warehouses are to to be forwarded onto the country/purchaser of destination. So a manufacturer or far eastern exporter rents space in a Freeport and all the goods have had no duty etc etc paid on them, the exporter then has as many websites as they need to sell the goods directly to the public.

The buying public then become the importer of the goods and depending on the value of the goods duty and or VAT is to paid by the purchaser directly to HMRC. The seller will usually declare the goods as $1 or maybe a little more but certainly enough not attract duty and vat, the buyer now gets their cheap goods and are happy. But think about this a little deeper, the seller is an offshore business and no tax is paid on their profits to the UK, the staff who work in the warehouse almost certainly get income related benefits due to the low wage they will earn and as the buyer pays no duty or vat so the cheap goods have now been a total financial liability to the UK. 

 

Just goes to prove that things aren’t  as simple as were often lead to believe, or Politicians would like !!!!!

I say that from both sides of the Brexit divide, more importantly though, this applies to the majority of news streams 

[Raja Clavata]

7 hours ago, poontang said:

You must work for the AA 😀

Very good 🤣

[pinfireman]

6 hours ago, sportsbob said:

This if not controlled will devastate out retail sector and starve the government of funds which will drive up income tax etc.

These Freeport`s or bonded warehouses with freight forwarding status already exist in there dozens all over the UK servicing websites such as Banggood, Wish, Aliexpress, Gearbest etc etc

The way it works is no duty or tax of any kind is paid as the the goods in the warehouses are to to be forwarded onto the country/purchaser of destination. So a manufacturer or far eastern exporter rents space in a Freeport and all the goods have had no duty etc etc paid on them, the exporter then has as many websites as they need to sell the goods directly to the public.

The buying public then become the importer of the goods and depending on the value of the goods duty and or VAT is to paid by the purchaser directly to HMRC. The seller will usually declare the goods as $1 or maybe a little more but certainly enough not attract duty and vat, the buyer now gets their cheap goods and are happy. But think about this a little deeper, the seller is an offshore business and no tax is paid on their profits to the UK, the staff who work in the warehouse almost certainly get income related benefits due to the low wage they will earn and as the buyer pays no duty or vat so the cheap goods have now been a total financial liability to the UK. 

If so, how come the dozens of established sites you mention have not already  "devastated" retail sales (the major damage to the retail sector in the UK is that caused by high rents, and business rates to High Street retailers? As for government being starved of funds, they still seem to have plenty to spare for foreign aid to countries with a space programme?

 

If this true then perhaps we have nothing to fear regarding the EU Army with no guns unusable submarines and only a handful of aeroplanes 😎

The EU Defence force would swallow up all the armed resources of its vassal states.................Quite considerable. They would scrap NATO..

Edited July 6, 2019 by pinfireman
spelling

[pinfireman]

7 minutes ago, pinfireman said: