old man Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 On 28/11/2018 at 11:28, yod dropper said: It's the shortage of quinoa I'm most concerned about. Between our poliitcos and media news hounds they seem do be doing their best to finish the country off? Disgraceful but not unexpected behaviour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Surely nobody elected as an MP by UK voters, and in so doing, charged with representing the interests of the UK and its people, could vote for Mays "surrender deal"? I suspect a resounding no vote by MP's is what will happen, because Mays carp deal was designed to do just that!......then "project fear mark 2" will be used to soften the public up, so they will be too frightened to accept a "no deal" brexit........as an alternative the politicians from all party's will then agree to allow the people to have another vote, with three choices 1) accept Mays deal. 2) leave with no deal. 3) stay in the EU. If they include 3) on the ballot paper, Westminster (MP's) will have conspired to get the public to overturn the democratic result of the people's Brexit referendum......then they could walk away saying "the people, not us have spoken" and "we will honour the peoples decision"...."we will stay in the EU".......game set and match for the remainers! This is what I suspect, they wanted and have been working for, all along....to overturn Brexit! But had difficulty deciding how to do it? If May doesn't get her deal through, I agree, this might very well be the next play. What I'm sure of is no matter what happens, they won't let us really leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said: If May doesn't get her deal through, I agree, this might very well be the next play. What I'm sure of is no matter what happens, they won't let us really leave. As a stay in type of vote this would be a bad move as you would split the stay vote two ways. Surely there would be a two stage process. Mays deal yes or no. Then stay in or no deal? What do you reckon next? I would guess for a tory it's take the deal or I resign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 26 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Surely nobody elected as an MP by UK voters, and in so doing, charged with representing the interests of the UK and its people, could vote for Mays "surrender deal"? I suspect a resounding no vote by MP's is what will happen, because Mays carp deal was designed to do just that!......then "project fear mark 2" will be used to soften the public up, so they will be too frightened to accept a "no deal" brexit........as an alternative the politicians from all party's will then agree to allow the people to have another vote, with three choices 1) accept Mays deal. 2) leave with no deal. 3) stay in the EU. If they include 3) on the ballot paper, Westminster (MP's) will have conspired to get the public to overturn the democratic result of the people's Brexit referendum......then they could walk away saying "the people, not us have spoken" and "we will honour the peoples decision"...."we will stay in the EU".......game set and match for the remainers! This is what I suspect, they wanted and have been working for, all along....to overturn Brexit! But had difficulty deciding how to do iti My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, oowee said: As a stay in type of vote this would be a bad move as you would split the stay vote two ways. Surely there would be a two stage process. Mays deal yes or no. Then stay in or no deal? What do you reckon next? I would guess for a tory it's take the deal or I resign? I actually misread the post I quoted, what I believe will happen is something like. 1 stay in the EU 2 Mays deal (soft brexit) hotel California 3 hard brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Mays deal wont go through, its not the fact so much that the deal is total pants, but the fact that labour will use a moment of weakness within the tory ranks to gain political points, and a possible election victory. Because lets face it , they certainly arent going to get voted in on their own merits are they ? There fore they will vote against her deal , pretty much any deal really, unless it passes their '6 tests' most of which we need to actually stay in the EU to pass 😂 Her own party are split on it, the DUP wont stand for it, and labour aint going for it , so lets just forget about Mays deal, and concentrate on the aftermath. Certain elements want to try and trigger a second spin of the dice, with the amount of dithering , fear mongering , and political exhaustion, I personally wouldnt like to call it. But for many MPs this would mean political suicide if it goes remain, the backlash would be apocalyptic. I really dont believe we would recognise the landscape afterwards, again , I wouldnt like to call the results come election time. No deal could seriously be the best deal (It is in my opinion anyway) as far as our political elites go. If they want to stay being MPs then they need to support the democratic will of the people who voted for them. People like Soubrey who ' cannot in all conscience support leaving the EU' need to remember that its not her vote that counted, it was the 55% of her constituents who did vote to leave . But she knows shes finished anyway, so what has she to lose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 40 minutes ago, oowee said: Why do you think the UK government would make such a choice knowing they would loose ten votes as a result? I have absolutely no idea why anyone in their right mind would sign away our control, and put it completely in the hands of the opposition. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: I have absolutely no idea why anyone in their right mind would sign away our control, and put it completely in the hands of the opposition. Perhaps you could enlighten me. The EU negotiators have a simple check list that they operate against. All that is agreed is following the process check list. The back stop is an inevitable outcome of the vote to leave. The Government is unable to clearly demonstrate how it is going to manage the arrangements so until it does the backstop has to be in. I am sure there is an answer to sorting a lot of this stuff but there are not enough people and hours in the day to do so much in such a short space of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: I have absolutely no idea why anyone in their right mind would sign away our control, and put it completely in the hands of the opposition. It is for your own gut mein herr, ein volk , ein reich ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, oowee said: The EU negotiators have a simple check list that they operate against. All that is agreed is following the process check list. The back stop is an inevitable outcome of the vote to leave. The Government is unable to clearly demonstrate how it is going to manage the arrangements so until it does the backstop has to be in. I am sure there is an answer to sorting a lot of this stuff but there are not enough people and hours in the day to do so much in such a short space of time. The answer is to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rewulf said: It is for your own gut mein herr, ein volk , ein reich ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, oowee said: The EU negotiators have a simple check list that they operate against. All that is agreed is following the process check list. The back stop is an inevitable outcome of the vote to leave. The Government is unable to clearly demonstrate how it is going to manage the arrangements so until it does the backstop has to be in. I am sure there is an answer to sorting a lot of this stuff but there are not enough people and hours in the day to do so much in such a short space of time. But that still doesn't explain why they decided to only let the EU be able to end the backstop. It's ludicrousy in its highest level, allowing the opposition to be the only ones to end the backstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Net migration (non EU) is at record levels. Eu workers being replaced by those from the third world. Sounds like a good deal? Lets get out of the commonwealth. 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: The answer is to walk away. Why would we want to walk away from such an important market. There is a deal to be done we just have to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, oowee said: Why would we want to walk away from such an important market. There is a deal to be done we just have to find it. You vill have NO DEAL , you vill pretend to leave only, now SIGN ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Where do you get all of these from Rewulf? It's a good job we are leaving else you could be sent to the next EU Gulag on a Greek island somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, oowee said: Why would we want to walk away from such an important market. There is a deal to be done we just have to find it. I dont, if the EU would give us a sensible trade deal, in the same way other countries across the world trade, I'd say great, but they never will, so we need to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, oowee said: EU Gulag on a Greek island somewhere There full of migrants at the moment , otherwise I might be up for a warmer clime rather than sat in this cold garage ! In all seriousness though, we are heading for an upheaval, either a no deal one , or a stay and go against the vote one, and the sad thing is , it really isnt our fault, although the EU claims , we are the ones ' messing every thing up' Can you not see they dont want us to leave ? And its not because they love us so much either, I believe a lot of the hierarchy within the EU have very little love and respect for the British at all. Theyre happy to take our money , and sell us goods, dump the more undesirable elements upon our shores. But it is our RIGHT to leave the project , if we feel it is no longer in our interests. They are making it difficult, so they can sabotage the process, and grind us down with their demands. May is either complicit , or too weak to combat this aggressive attitude. Many in the leave camp have finally got their head round leaving, plenty I know have been truly shocked at Brussels bullying tactics and changed camps. We need to preserve our democracy, flouting it will bring repercussions to the political landscape and beyond , that will make the pain of Brexit seem slight in comparison. Lets just go with no deal and negotiate from there, I reckon the EU will be more amenable that way. Try ? Do , or do not, there is no try ? said a small wise man once 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 One more 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 What I don't really understand is how May, who has been remarkably stubborn/obstinate/determined/thick skinned (choose whichever suits you) with her MPs and cabinet - had not been able to stand up to the EU. One possible conclusion is that she has been betrayed by our 'civil servants'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, Rewulf said: One more 😎 Love it 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 22 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: What I don't really understand is how May, who has been remarkably stubborn/obstinate/determined/thick skinned (choose whichever suits you) with her MPs and cabinet - had not been able to stand up to the EU. One possible conclusion is that she has been betrayed by our 'civil servants'. To have observed the TV program about how our so called diplomats operate gives the answer as they have strings pulled from behind the scenes by civil servants of all flavours. Personally found it distasteful, we have no chance of a decent outcome while governed by such weak servile people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: What I don't really understand is how May, who has been remarkably stubborn/obstinate/determined/thick skinned (choose whichever suits you) with her MPs and cabinet - had not been able to stand up to the EU. One possible conclusion is that she has been betrayed by our 'civil servants'. Or complicit by presenting us with a carp deal, knowing it will be rejected, and trusting if the remainer politicians, economists and big business et al, employ their "scare tactics" and "doomsday scenario" well enough they can "for our own good" avoid taking us into a "Hard Brexit".......then like knights in shining armour, they can come to the countries rescue by arranging another referendum, where if and when they overturn Brexit, they can pass the blame/responsibility onto us....the electorate! Edited November 29, 2018 by panoma1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 26 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Or complicit by presenting us with a carp deal, knowing it will be rejected, and trusting if the remainer politicians, economists and big business et al, employ their "scare tactics" and "doomsday scenario" well enough they can "for our own good" avoid taking us into a "Hard Brexit".......then like knights in shining armour, they can come to the countries rescue by arranging another referendum, where if and when they overturn Brexit, they can pass the blame/responsibility onto us....the electorate! Scarily possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1440 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, panoma1 said: Or complicit by presenting us with a carp deal, knowing it will be rejected, and trusting if the remainer politicians, economists and big business et al, employ their "scare tactics" and "doomsday scenario" well enough they can "for our own good" avoid taking us into a "Hard Brexit".......then like knights in shining armour, they can come to the countries rescue by arranging another referendum, where if and when they overturn Brexit, they can pass the blame/responsibility onto us....the electorate! Been thinking this for a while. I can't believe that supposedly intelligent people would not come to some agreement on the best way forward withou throwing each other under the Bus at every opportunity. Without a giving a monkeys about the country. I get that the only objective of Boris is to sit on the top step and hhats all that matters to hiim but the rest.. either they are very selfish people and only service themselves or they have a plan we're not privvy to.and they daren't say it out loud. . Edited November 29, 2018 by Paul1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Paul1440 said: Been thinking this for a while. I can't believe that supposedly intelligent people would not come to some agreement on the best way forward withou throwing each other under the Bus at every opportunity. Without a giving a monkeys about the country. I get that the only objective of Boris is to sit on the top step and hhats all that matters to hiim but the rest.. either they are very selfish people and only service themselves or they have a plan we're not privvy to.and they daren't say it out loud. . Boris may want to sit on the top step, but so did Churchill................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts