Bungle The Bear Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 Had a great day on the partridges today shooting my side by side - decided to be really traditional, and used Lyalvale Express paper cases, given to me by a friend to try, I have to say these were a real eye opener, and performed without fault, they were also virtually no recoil, which did surprise me, as I have been led to believe they can be quite punchy. I fully intend to use these for the rest of my game shooting this season - has, or does, anyone else have experience of these cartridges..? I read of many people, some of my friends included, say they can't get on with side by sides because of recoil etc - no wonder when you feed them crazy loads, try some of these Lyalvale 28 / 30g fibre in paper cases. Another plus point was the smell of the spent cases😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 Nice to read your post, glad you had a successful day. If you listen to some folks it’s a wonder anybody ever managed to shoot anything without multi chokes, adjustable combs, single triggers, heavy loads, plastic wads, and with paper cases too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 No idea of paper cases but would have thought a 28g 7 (or 7.5 even) would drop partridge, especially if coming towards you when driven ... Hull Comp X do a 7.5 28g shell that's soft as anything I've ever experienced and I do wonder if they would be any good on such shoots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother. How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war? To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?) requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0 but they are harsher and rubbish in comparison. For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungle The Bear Posted September 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother. How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war? To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?) requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0 but they are harsher and rubbish in comparison. For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of. Good post Vince - and sets you thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Vince Green said: modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. It's all about 'velocity' figures these days. They are all 'Ultrafast', Superfast', or 'High velocity' or some other 'buzzword or phrase' to suggest they are faster. A good cartridge should pattern well, and pushing the velocity up makes (in real terms) no difference to lead, and a very marginal difference to striking energy (at the target range). What makes a gun/cartridge a good match is a good pattern, and pleasant to shoot. My personal favourite is Hull Imperial for game in either 26g or 28g, and Hull CompX 21g for clays. High velocity isn't always good for pattern. Most of my shooting is through an AyA No 1 s/s. Edited October 1, 2019 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Always use paper cases for my game shooting (weather permitting) never had a problem with them in the appropriate gun choke combination im with john on this too much hype on speed just need a good consistent cartridge that you can shoot all day long what does super fast actually mean? It gets there faster ok mine get there slower so to shoot in the same place I may need another inch or two of lead 🤭 just a little footnote here eley impax paper shoot totally different to eley impax plastic case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) I have some I use on boxing days, work ok but I notice a different sound out the gun when using them. Recoil is about the same. Good to read you had a nice days shooting. Edited October 1, 2019 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Can anyone tell me what is used to varnish the loaded paper cartridges ? I would like to have a go at loading some and want to make a good job of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Varnish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yes but what sort . I have been told shellac , lacker , Poundland mystery varnish etc etc but what was traditionally used back in the day when all cases were paper. I have yet to find out after looking in quite a few old books . I have seen pictures of the cartridges being dipped by hand 25 at a time in a frame then left to dry but no mention of what the actual coating is . Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: It's all about 'velocity' figures these days. They are all 'Ultrafast', Superfast', or 'High velocity' or some other 'buzzword or phrase' to suggest they are faster. A good cartridge should pattern well, and pushing the velocity up makes (in real terms) no difference to lead, and a very marginal difference to striking energy (at the target range). What makes a gun/cartridge a good match is a good pattern, and pleasant to shoot. My personal favourite is Hull Imperial for game in either 26g or 28g, and Hull CompX 21g for clays. High velocity isn't always good for pattern. Most of my shooting is through an AyA No 1 s/s. These “Ultrafast, Superfast, High Velocity type cartridges are, I imagine, more appropriate for use in modern heavy 70mm chambered (O/U) guns, they are not designed for traditional light English SBS’s.......high velocity in a light gun, causes uncomfortable recoil and will likely result in a light English SBS gun soon being shot ”off the face”......65mm 28/30g fibre game cartridges are more suitable.....and comfortable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Old farrier said: Always use paper cases for my game shooting (weather permitting) never had a problem with them in the appropriate gun choke combination im with john on this too much hype on speed just need a good consistent cartridge that you can shoot all day long what does super fast actually mean? It gets there faster ok mine get there slower so to shoot in the same place I may need another inch or two of lead 🤭 just a little footnote here eley impax paper shoot totally different to eley impax plastic case What differences did you notice between the Impax? I was given some of Chaplins "Cushion Loads" a few seasons ago and was really impressed. 28gm paper cased 6's loaded by Hull. A question to regular paper case users, who in your opinion makes the best version? Eley,Hull,Gamebore or Express? I'm aware RC also occasionally produce them but they're few and far between in 12 bore. WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, White Rabbit said: What differences did you notice between the Impax? I was given some of Chaplins "Cushion Loads" a few seasons ago and was really impressed. 28gm paper cased 6's loaded by Hull. A question to regular paper case users, who in your opinion makes the best version? Eley,Hull,Gamebore or Express? I'm aware RC also occasionally produce them but they're few and far between in 12 bore. WR. Just a better cartridge altogether pattern the way it feels and sounds and performs in my gun personally think they seal better in the chambers and generally do what they were designed for in the gun that was built before they had plastic i use eley although I’ve just got 500 Hull 30 gram that I’ll try at the weekend (rain permitting) i also use a 34 gram rc but not in a light ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Many thanks. I'll have to see what I can find on my travels. The 34gm White Paper aren't available locally. Around 25yrs ago RC loaded their 28gm Professional Game in a green paper case. It was a lovely load to shoot and patterned perfectly. I used 500 then supply dried up. I'll try Impax and Three Crowns and see how I get on. WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Paper cases usually eject better/more reliably than plastic ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungle The Bear Posted October 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, White Rabbit said: Many thanks. I'll have to see what I can find on my travels. The 34gm White Paper aren't available locally. Around 25yrs ago RC loaded their 28gm Professional Game in a green paper case. It was a lovely load to shoot and patterned perfectly. I used 500 then supply dried up. I'll try Impax and Three Crowns and see how I get on. WR. As I said in my original post - I loved the Lyalvale express 28grm fibre paper, virtually no recoil and performed well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowdy Posted October 4, 2019 Report Share Posted October 4, 2019 I use Hull 3 crowns paper cartridges for most of my game shooting. . I love the smell as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 01/10/2019 at 18:50, swan40 said: Can anyone tell me what is used to varnish the loaded paper cartridges ? I would like to have a go at loading some and want to make a good job of them. Traditionally it was shellac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 30/09/2019 at 22:00, Vince Green said: I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother. How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war? To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?) requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0 but they are harsher and rubbish in comparison. For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of. Right enough. Nothing much else that I can do at the moment so some figures based on 28g of No 7 for 40 yards. Velocity Rating MV (0) Velocity Energy Time Momentum Standard 1300 605 1.046 0.148 11.09 HV 1350 612.4 1.07 0.146 11.52 Superfast 1425 622.8 1.1 0.143 12.16 Ultrafast 1500 632.3 1.14 0.140 12 8 Hyperfast 1600 645.2 1.19 0.136 13.7 Why risk getting knocked about for very little gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Some of the loads i make are for older gents to reload. Most of my subsonic series or near supersonic loadings tickle one end and hit like a freight train the other. Pattern stella too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 17 hours ago, cookoff013 said: Some of the loads i make are for older gents to reload. Most of my subsonic series or near supersonic loadings tickle one end and hit like a freight train the other. Pattern stella too. Yep. As Table above, based on 32g of No 5 at 40 yards. Subsonic 1100 613.6 1.7 0.153 10.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 The RC paper 34gr were a great find. Sadly not produced for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Bought some RC 34 gram paper whites last season so fairly sure they are still available tried some 30 gram 6 and 30 gram 5 paper cased Hull 3crowns 2 1/2 inch 65mm at the weekend very good results in my game gun so I shall be using them when I feel my normal 28 gram/ounce isn’t quite up to the job did notice a bit of the crimp torn away after firing but nut enough to worry about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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