The Next General Election.

[Retsdon]

12 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

I don't know what your all moaning about... I can't wait for the £15 minimum wage. Don't know why I have wasted all those years doing access courses, going back into education when older, studying hard and then getting a professional job. Everyday at the moment I have to make decisions that have massive consequences on people's lives, sometimes life and death decisions.

 

When the £15 minimum wage comes in, I am going to jack in all that responsibility (and fault / blame that you get), get a job working in a pub for £15 an hour and spent all day messing about taking home the same money  

It's going to be a land of milk and honey I tell ya  

Matthew 20:1 1-26. The parable of the workers in the vineyard.

[Rewulf]

It's quite simple really.. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It's quite simple really.. 

They have another cunning plan;

It is being reported in the press that one of the Labour tactics being widely used by Momentum is instructing students etc. to "Vote early, Vote often, Vote Labour"

Methods used include stolen/intercepted voting cards in halls/shared accommodation, postal as well as 'in person' votes and voting in two constituencies (university and home).

There are no checks carried out by which this can be detected and prevented; it is an 'honesty based' system.  Honesty no longer features in politics.

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Matthew 20:1 1-26. The parable of the workers in the vineyard.

No eisegesis please!

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

They have another cunning plan;

It is being reported in the press that one of the Labour tactics being widely used by Momentum is instructing students etc. to "Vote early, Vote often, Vote Labour"

Methods used include stolen/intercepted voting cards in halls/shared accommodation, postal as well as 'in person' votes and voting in two constituencies (university and home).

There are no checks carried out by which this can be detected and prevented; it is an 'honesty based' system.  Honesty no longer features in politics.

Yep. It’s basically a deceitful game played by deceitful people. 

You have to fight fire with fire. I will instruct son and daughter. 🙂

[ditchman]

i do love a cunning plan

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

i do love a cunning plan

May never had any plan at the last election, I hope boris fights dirty.

[ditchman]

29 minutes ago, Mice! said:

May never had any plan at the last election, I hope boris fights dirty.

the problem is how do you fight an election when the momentum corbynisters produce a manifisto of totally unacheivable lies ......which the public believe.........its like BASC trying to inform the "city folk" that hunting and shooting looks after the countryside...........

[sportsbob]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

They have another cunning plan;

It is being reported in the press that one of the Labour tactics being widely used by Momentum is instructing students etc. to "Vote early, Vote often, Vote Labour"

Methods used include stolen/intercepted voting cards in halls/shared accommodation, postal as well as 'in person' votes and voting in two constituencies (university and home).

There are no checks carried out by which this can be detected and prevented; it is an 'honesty based' system.  Honesty no longer features in politics.

As far as I am aware the voting in two areas is not permitted in general elections where it is perfectly legal in locals.

[oowee]

25 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

As far as I am aware the voting in two areas is not permitted in general elections where it is perfectly legal in locals.

No it's not. People can be registered in two areas but can only vote in one.

@Hammeronhammeroff you were saying?

Posted Thursday at 22:03

  On 31/10/2019 at 20:46, Hammeronhammeroff said:

Self employed, sponging low life....how ******* dare you!!

I have been working non stop since leaving school at 16 in 1978. Left school with no qualifications. Never been out of work. First 25 years as a permie in 3 organisations and the last 14 working for myself as a contractor. Never missed a tax payment from 1978 until now 

No holiday pay, no sickness pay, no pension, no healthcare...you don’t work you don’t get paid

wind your neck in 

 

 

 

You have lost me on that one. What are you on about?

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

No it's not. People can be registered in two areas but can only vote in one.

That was also my understanding for national elections.  I don't know about local elections (and I suspect sportsbob may be right) where it might be that you have a home in one council area and a holiday home in a completely different council area.  I don't see why you shouldn't be able to elect representation in both areas since you are paying council tax to both areas?

[oowee]

I stand corrected you and @sportsbob are right. My apologies. I never knew that 🙂 

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

That was also my understanding for national elections.  I don't know about local elections (and I suspect sportsbob may be right) where it might be that you have a home in one council area and a holiday home in a completely different council area.  I don't see why you shouldn't be able to elect representation in both areas since you are paying council tax to both areas?

 

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

he problem is how do you fight an election when the momentum corbynisters produce a manifisto of totally unacheivable lies ..

A bit like the Vote Leave campaign then? The problem these days is that no political campaign is based on reality, it's whether you can gull enough people to buy into your schtick. Personally, I blame the press and the media.It should be their job to sort the wheat from the chaff and call out the chaff merchants. But either because they're too lazy, or incompetent, or just because they cynically know that the 'he said / she said' personality based rubbish they frame everything around will generates moreclicks and sales, the media prefer to dodge real discussion in favour of the soap opera nonsense.

And that's why political debate in the UK is so dangerously ill-informed and sterile.

[ditchman]

14 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

A bit like the Vote Leave campaign then? The problem these days is that no political campaign is based on reality, it's whether you can gull enough people to buy into your schtick. Personally, I blame the press and the media.It should be their job to sort the wheat from the chaff and call out the chaff merchants. But either because they're too lazy, or incompetent, or just because they cynically know that the 'he said / she said' personality based rubbish they frame everything around will generates moreclicks and sales, the media prefer to dodge real discussion in favour of the soap opera nonsense.

And that's why political debate in the UK is so dangerously ill-informed and sterile.

you are quite right.............but at the moment i think labour and the libs are trying to out lie the cons ...

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

A bit like the Vote Leave campaign then? The problem these days is that no political campaign is based on reality, it's whether you can gull enough people to buy into your schtick. Personally, I blame the press and the media.It should be their job to sort the wheat from the chaff and call out the chaff merchants. But either because they're too lazy, or incompetent, or just because they cynically know that the 'he said / she said' personality based rubbish they frame everything around will generates moreclicks and sales, the media prefer to dodge real discussion in favour of the soap opera nonsense.

And that's why political debate in the UK is so dangerously ill-informed and sterile.

Old'un posted this link in general shooting matters re field sports but I think the finding apply to most politics and the bulk of the press with an agenda

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157270970753112&key=dd1565d9a6e3794e62d9582c3ccfe600&libId=k2hqqxhm010009kp000DAhxlvoj0x&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F394184-%E2%80%98rural-terrorism-in-208-characters%E2%80%99%2F&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageguns.co.uk%2Fmagazine%2Frural-terrorism-in-280-characters&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Fforum%2F32-general-shooting-matters%2F&title=‘Rural terrorism in 208 characters’ - General Shooting Matters - Pigeon Watch Forums&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageguns.co.uk%2Fmagazine%2Frural-terrorism-in-280-characters

[Retsdon]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Old'un posted this link in general shooting matters re field sports but I think the finding apply to most politics and the bulk of the press with an agenda

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157270970753112&key=dd1565d9a6e3794e62d9582c3ccfe600&libId=k2hqqxhm010009kp000DAhxlvoj0x&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F394184-%E2%80%98rural-terrorism-in-208-characters%E2%80%99%2F&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageguns.co.uk%2Fmagazine%2Frural-terrorism-in-280-characters&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Fforum%2F32-general-shooting-matters%2F&title=‘Rural terrorism in 208 characters’ - General Shooting Matters - Pigeon Watch Forums&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageguns.co.uk%2Fmagazine%2Frural-terrorism-in-280-characters

There's a great quote  -apparently attributed to Johnathan Swift the author of Gulliver's Travels - that goes something like  'You can not reason a man out of a view that he has acquired without the application of reason'.

...and you can see that it applies to a lot of antis whose opposition and hatred of field sports is visceral revulsion against the taking of life, and no reasonable argument will shift them from the position that any kind of shooting for any kind of reason is wrong. Reason doesn't come into it.

But honesty,. I see the same mindset in some Brexiters for whom the EU -  by any objective  or historical  standards a pretty benign organization -   is the Devil Incarnate. And no amount or reasoned argument can shift them from that perspective.

Unfortunately that's just how it seems to be.

 

[panoma1]

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

There's a great quote  -apparently attributed to Johnathan Swift the author of Gulliver's Travels - that goes something like  'You can not reason a man out of a view that he has acquired without the application of reason'.

...and you can see that it applies to a lot of antis whose opposition and hatred of field sports is visceral revulsion against the taking of life, and no reasonable argument will shift them from the position that any kind of shooting for any kind of reason is wrong. Reason doesn't come into it.

But honesty,. I see the same mindset in some Brexiters for whom the EU -  by any objective  or historical  standards a pretty benign organization -   is the Devil Incarnate. And no amount or reasoned argument can shift them from that perspective.

Unfortunately that's just how it seems to be.

 

Does that type of mindset not apply to remainers also?🤔

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Does that type of mindset not apply to remainers also?

To some remainers, undoubtedly. For them the EU is an article of faith and can do no wrong. Let's face it, you get these people on all sides, and we can all be guilty of this kind of comforting group think that probably stems from a sense of belonging.

The only way to counter it really is to deliberately and systematically challenge one's own views impartially, and be prepared to swallow the results even if the outcomes aren't really the desired ones  And that's really, really hard because sometimes reason or logic will tell you that your heart and your sense of self are wrong or illogical. 

A lot easier said than done though.

 

[panoma1]

26 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

The only way to counter it really is to deliberately and systematically challenge one's own views impartially, and be prepared to swallow the results even if the outcomes aren't really the desired ones  

 

We could say this about remainers, with regard to democracy and the referendum result! 😊

[Retsdon]

9 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

We could say this about remainers, with regard to democracy and the referendum result!

It's not really the same thing though. if an outcome is logically wrong, simply accepting it won't make it logically right. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Retsdon said:

It's not really the same thing though. if an outcome is logically wrong, simply accepting it won't make it logically right. 

So Remaining is wrong?

[panoma1]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

It's not really the same thing though. if an outcome is logically wrong, simply accepting it won't make it logically right. 

“Swallow the result even though the outcomes aren’t really the desired ones” is though!
 

Who is to say the outcome of the referendum result was logically wrong? 🤔 Oh yes of course! Remainers! Lol!

[oowee]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

“Swallow the result even though the outcomes aren’t really the desired ones” is though!
 

Who is to say the outcome of the referendum result was logically wrong? 🤔 Oh yes of course! Remainers! Lol!

Is it meeting the ref result to leave the EU but stay in the customs union? Your answer would be no despite the fact that we would have technically left.

It might be said therefore that the referendum result lacked clarity for voters. So whilst the result is a vote to leave, the actual event of leaving is perceived differently for those people that both support and oppose leaving. So whilst the result is clear the interpretation is far from it. 

Is it illogical? I don't think the vote is illogical, we went in to polling faced with a choice and logically made a decision. The rational behind the ref to find out if people wanted to be in or out of the EU makes sense. The next steps taken however are definitely illogical. There was a single outcome for a range of choices from the ref so the next logical step must be to see which of the available options most suits the country following the decision to leave. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

It's not really the same thing though. if an outcome is logically wrong, simply accepting it won't make it logically right. 

By that logic politicians were humouring the electorate by giving them a referendum. That went well eh? 

[panoma1]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Is it meeting the ref result to leave the EU but stay in the customs union? Your answer would be no despite the fact that we would have technically left.

It might be said therefore that the referendum result lacked clarity for voters. So whilst the result is a vote to leave, the actual event of leaving is perceived differently for those people that both support and oppose leaving. So whilst the result is clear the interpretation is far from it. 

Is it illogical? I don't think the vote is illogical, we went in to polling faced with a choice and logically made a decision. The rational behind the ref to find out if people wanted to be in or out of the EU makes sense. The next steps taken however are definitely illogical. There was a single outcome for a range of choices from the ref so the next logical step must be to see which of the available options most suits the country following the decision to leave. 

To interpret the result of the question choice on the referendum correctly, leave or remain....... leave means leave! It does not mean partly leave, our leave in name only staying in a customs union, leave but only with a deal or anything else!....it means leave! Remainers Never accepted the result of the referendum because they want to stay in the EU, so they have used any tactic they can, to prevent the UK leaving the EU!....this is evidenced by the fact remainers tried to push for another vote (2nd referendum) and wanted remain as an option! I could accept a consultative vote by the UK electorate, with a choice of the options, leave with a negotiated deal (terms on offer stipulated and explained) or leave with no deal....but not with remain as an option on the ballot paper!.....