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TIGHTCHOKE

The Next General Election.

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11 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

What is the point in opening a discussion when it is all complete 'twaddle' (well most of it anyway).

The country needs to enact the result of the democratic referendum to move forward. We either live in a democracy or we don't.  My understanding of democracy is the majority decide and that decision is carried out.

You can go down the route of people didn't know what they were voting for or what kind of leave was voted for, or any other condescending remarks remainers like to spew out. The fact is it was all spelled out by Cameron, the leave campaign and indeed the remain campaign.

As for not wanting the discussion, you are 100% right. We had a vote, Leave won, there is nothing more to discuss!

As a winning voter, I'm sick to death of the Brexit debate, the time for debate was in the run up to the referendum. The time is now for the result to be enacted. Leave the EU in it's entirety as voted for, and get on with governing ourselves.

Well said :good:

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14 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

And that is exactly why in my opinion you do not understand the leave side. Rory Stewart was, is and will always be a remainer, perhaps this is why you think he would 'heal the divide'. He basically agrees with you.

 

Why should the winning side compromise??? Again another reason that In my opinion you don't understand both sides.

 

And again, I merely pointed out that some see the remain side as mostly twaddle. Again another reason that in my opinion you don't understand both sides.

 

What is the point in opening a discussion when it is all complete 'twaddle' (well most of it anyway).

The country needs to enact the result of the democratic referendum to move forward. We either live in a democracy or we don't.  My understanding of democracy is the majority decide and that decision is carried out.

You can go down the route of people didn't know what they were voting for or what kind of leave was voted for, or any other condescending remarks remainers like to spew out. The fact is it was all spelled out by Cameron, the leave campaign and indeed the remain campaign.

As for not wanting the discussion, you are 100% right. We had a vote, Leave won, there is nothing more to discuss!

As a winning voter, I'm sick to death of the Brexit debate, the time for debate was in the run up to the referendum. The time is now for the result to be enacted. Leave the EU in it's entirety as voted for, and get on with governing ourselves.

And throw in to all of this Jo Swinson and her so called Liberal Democrats, who are neither liberal or democratic!

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2 hours ago, grrclark said:

I agree in the main.  I think that Sturgeon is an impressive politician, although her and her parties obsession with trying to engineer a second indy ref for Scotland and talking down the Tories at every opportunity is incredibly divisive in Scotland.

Boris is a force of personality, no denying that and that can get things done, but he is a busker.  He is also like a cork on top of the water and will float in the direction of the prevailing winds, he is a man of little principle and conviction, but one of absolute calculation when it comes to his own ambitions.

The way I see it is this election is very much about Brexit and thereafter voting for the least worst option on offer.

I know pro-union Scottish voters who are voting for SNP due to their anti-brexit stance as Labour and Lib Dems are effectively a busted flush, but when it comes to Scottish Elections or another Indy Ref they will vote against the SNP.

I know died in the wool Labour and SNP supporters who are voting Tory as they are pro Brexit, but the next election they will vote anything but.

The Lib Dem voters always seem to vote for the Lib Dems regardless.

I am pro Brexit (i’m ideologically opposed to a big governmental state) and traditionally a conservative voter and it galls me to vote for BoJo as PM.  All a bit moot as SNP are likely to win with a big majority in my ward despite where my X is.

There is something about some Scottish politicians that seems to me to be more balanced than we are seeing south of the border. Another favorite of mine is Ian Blackford. I dont know much about how effective he is generally but in debate he comes across as measured in his responses. I wonder if it is something that comes from being part of a minority government. South of the border our politicians have lost the plot when it comes to working together.

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1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

And that is exactly why in my opinion you do not understand the leave side. Rory Stewart was, is and will always be a remainer, perhaps this is why you think he would 'heal the divide'. He basically agrees with you.

 

Why should the winning side compromise??? Again another reason that In my opinion you don't understand both sides.

 

And again, I merely pointed out that some see the remain side as mostly twaddle. Again another reason that in my opinion you don't understand both sides.

 

What is the point in opening a discussion when it is all complete 'twaddle' (well most of it anyway).

The country needs to enact the result of the democratic referendum to move forward. We either live in a democracy or we don't.  My understanding of democracy is the majority decide and that decision is carried out.

You can go down the route of people didn't know what they were voting for or what kind of leave was voted for, or any other condescending remarks remainers like to spew out. The fact is it was all spelled out by Cameron, the leave campaign and indeed the remain campaign.

As for not wanting the discussion, you are 100% right. We had a vote, Leave won, there is nothing more to discuss!

As a winning voter, I'm sick to death of the Brexit debate, the time for debate was in the run up to the referendum. The time is now for the result to be enacted. Leave the EU in it's entirety as voted for, and get on with governing ourselves.

I find it  a bit ironic that you repeatedly suggest that:

  • I don't understand the leave side 
  • There is no need to compromise

Do you not realise that even a faction of the leave side is going to need to compromise based on the specific form of Brexit, or not, that we are going to end up with.

Governing ourselves - that will be interesting with the sad lot we have to choose from!

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17 minutes ago, oowee said:

There is something about some Scottish politicians that seems to me to be more balanced than we are seeing south of the border. Another favorite of mine is Ian Blackford. I dont know much about how effective he is generally but in debate he comes across as measured in his responses. I wonder if it is something that comes from being part of a minority government. South of the border our politicians have lost the plot when it comes to working together.

There’s something about some Scottish politicians like Blackford that really grates.......but that’s because the Westminster SNP politicians act like a pack of dogs, savaging the “auld enemy” politicians whilst trying to whip up anti English hatred, for the alleged sins of out fathers....working to their dogmatic, independence at any cost, screw the repercussions, nationalist agenda!........Pathetic empty vessels!
 

Scotland doesn’t support their quest for independence..........But they do support remaining in the EU!.......So I suppose any remainer will sing their praises!

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22 minutes ago, oowee said:

There is something about some Scottish politicians that seems to me to be more balanced than we are seeing south of the border. Another favorite of mine is Ian Blackford. I dont know much about how effective he is generally but in debate he comes across as measured in his responses. I wonder if it is something that comes from being part of a minority government. South of the border our politicians have lost the plot when it comes to working together.

Sturgeon and Blackford have a singular mind and purpose, Scottish independence.

To this end they seem quite pleased to tip Scotland upside down to achieve it, they KNOW full well its not a majority wish, yet they  push on regardless, they cite the 'stupidity' of Brexit, but fail to see the irony, and stupidity of independence.
Irony , because the trauma of leaving will be but a  far more calamitous affair than leaving the EU .
Irony , because they seek to give that independence away, ASAP , by rejoining the EU !

So tell me again how level headed they are, watch them squirm as they are asked how well the health and education services are doing under their direction.

 

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56 minutes ago, oowee said:

There is something about some Scottish politicians that seems to me to be more balanced than we are seeing south of the border. Another favorite of mine is Ian Blackford. I dont know much about how effective he is generally but in debate he comes across as measured in his responses. I wonder if it is something that comes from being part of a minority government. South of the border our politicians have lost the plot when it comes to working together.

The SNP are very unified in their approach so are always on message.  They also do grievance very well.  I think in the scale of British politics it is also pretty easy for them as they can certainly talk being balanced and measured because they don’t actually have to pony up and enact what they say.

The picture in Scotland is changing with the SNP, they talk on the left of centre about fairness, equality and social justice which is why they trumped Labour at their own game, but have really been middle ground and sometimes even slightly right of centre.  They are moving more towards the left however with the increase in taxation, growing of the centralised state, increasing rhetoric around land ownership and even a dalliance with nationalisation.

They are also starting to fail on some of their big ticket items and initiatives and as a consequence the anti tory and pro indy noise is increasing massively to keep the faithful in the fold and to divert from the reality.  The performances against Westminster politicians are part of that theatre, make the Westminster parliament and politicians look absurd (which is a sad reflection of reality sometimes) as it stokes the passions and reinforces the belief of the indy supporters.

Agree that in Westminster it is as polarised as it has ever been for decades, maybe Thatcher and Michael Foot would be a similar juxtaposition.

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I am surprised that some actually rate Sturgeon and Blackford. They seem to belong to the Salmond school of politics - big on rhetoric, way short on substance. There is a childlike belief that they can gain independence, re-join the EU and live in prosperity. 

I doubt they will ever get independence, there is no way they can re-join the EU and prosperity - with the absence of the Barnett subsidy - is merely delusional.

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

Another favorite of mine is Ian Blackford.

I'm so glad the above answered better than I could, the bloke is all bluster and noise, it's a shame but I almost hope Scotland get independence just to see them fail drastically,  the interview with NS summed it up,  lots of noise very good in front of the camera on their terms, but fall apart when questioned on failings. 

How will they cope without Englands money?

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I sincerely hope they don't go for independence. We would be a lot weaker without Scotland. Setting aside (if that's at all possible) the wider Brexit aims the potential to do harm to the Union is a big risk for UK plc. I accept that the SNP are using the Brexit debate, or perhaps the shambolic way it has been handled as evidence for there cause. The reality I would hope is that Brexit by the UK should make their goals for independence even less likely. The likely border solution and currency issues alone I would hope would dissuade even the most ardent fanatic for independence think twice about the course of action. 

As we move to a more federalist  government with power devolved to the regions there is an opportunity for a major rethink of the UK political landscape and the role of Westminster. 

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Whilst I was sleeping off a night shift this morning apparently Jeremy Corbyn has appologised for the way that the anti-semitism has been dealt with by the Labour Party.

 

Blimey, took long enough for his advisors to convince him.

 

All rather too little too late I am afraid!

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In other news a well known female politician, who is really bad at maths has had her privately educated son arrested and charged for BITING  a police officer! 

Not going to mention any names as I got called out for misogyny on it the other day 😹

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9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

In other news a well known female politician, who is really bad at maths has had her privately educated son arrested and charged for BITING  a police officer! 

Not going to mention any names as I got called out for misogyny on it the other day 😹

And without mentioning any names she has apparently pulled out of a TV appearance for the election campaign, OH THE SHAME!:lol:

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Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And without mentioning any names she has apparently pulled out of a TV appearance for the election campaign, OH THE SHAME!

It is indeed a shame; I’d have paid good money to see that. 

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Has she been locked up in a cupboard for the last few weeks not heard anything from her 

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2 minutes ago, B725 said:

Has she been locked up in a cupboard for the last few weeks not heard anything from her 

Damage limitation plan by the unseen plotters behind Corbyn I suspect.

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Whilst Diane is making sure her offspring is properly fed tonight, Ms Thornberry is rallying the party faithful... 

Emily Thornberry has appealed to Remain voters to back Labour at the general election as she insisted the party can still close the gap with the Tories.

The shadow foreign secretary said that the "only way" the UK could legitimately stay in the European Union was to deliver Labour's confirmatory vote.

So... this 'vote' guarantees remain does it? 

Wishful thinking, or a slip of the tongue? 

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9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Whilst Diane is making sure her offspring is properly fed tonight, Ms Thornberry is rallying the party faithful... 

Emily Thornberry has appealed to Remain voters to back Labour at the general election as she insisted the party can still close the gap with the Tories.

The shadow foreign secretary said that the "only way" the UK could legitimately stay in the European Union was to deliver Labour's confirmatory vote.

So... this 'vote' guarantees remain does it? 

Wishful thinking, or a slip of the tongue? 

A slip of the tongue I would think. So the YouGov poll has the Cons 9 points ahead of Labour as of yesterday and prior to Trumps comments on Bojo.

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13 hours ago, Rewulf said:

In other news a well known female politician, who is really bad at maths has had her privately educated son arrested and charged for BITING  a police officer! 

Not going to mention any names as I got called out for misogyny on it the other day 😹

I see the shadow home secretary is teaching her privileged offspring respect for the law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7750565/Diane-Abbotts-son-28-arrested-attack-police-officers.html

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I've been looking at the employment implications of a labour government and it's some pretty serious stuff. There is a long list. There are some virtuous-sounding things like 'giving workers equal rights from day one' but if you examine what that actually means it has very wide ranging implications indeed for anyone who employs staff. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

I've been looking at the employment implications of a labour government and it's some pretty serious stuff.

It is a further fact that EVERY Labour government has increased unemployment during their period in office.

Simple reason; if you make it too expensive to employ people - too many hoops to jump through, too many costs passed to the employer, too much legislation on 'workers rights' that carries cost or long term risks (such as loss of control).  Many of the policies proposed by John McDonnell will do just this (e.g. 4 day week) - and employers will simply lay off staff rather than take the risk (one of which is that it may get very much harder to be able to enact these decisions under Labour) of carrying on.

Labour ultimately will destroy many businesses - which is in effect what John McDonnell has vowed to do by 'ending Capitalism'.  Everyone will suffer teh fallout, but none more so that normal employees.

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I was talking to a French employer last year and he said they try to get by without hiring new staff because rubbish workers can be so hard to get rid of. 

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