Copper coated shot

[bigroomboy]

So I havent come across a bird shot with copper coated shot yet or else at least I dont know it. Does the copper coating stay intact when fired and as it enters the animal? If so does it reduce the amount of possible lead contamination in the meat? Just wondering.

[wymberley]

Good question.

As some have the shot over fibre wads, I reckon that there'd be more chance of the wash coming adrift while rattling down the barrel.

[bigroomboy]

I know people who shoot eley Zenith but have not yet been abke to identify and copper shot in any birds I have taken at the end of the day, but that could just be bad luck?

[Pushandpull]

Winchester were loading copper coated (lead) shot in Super XX many years ago. It was part of the "premium" package.

Unfortunately the impression is given in the current marketing that this is all-copper shot (which would be non-toxic) and it is not.

[welshwarrior]

I only use copper coated shot on game I must admit I’ve never looked after I’ve found a pellet often mid meal I just get rid of it I’ll look next time. 

[bigroomboy]

Thanks welshwarrior, report back.

[muncher]

I shot a pink with copper coated BB and found a pellet still had the copper coating intact.

[dodeer]

Copper coated shot is used on zeniths, Cheddite royal game and ejc hellfire 

 

I think it makes a difference especially through tight choke

[Walker570]

Funny that. I got questioned today if I used copper coated shot in my 410 reloads.  Why in heavens name do I need to do that when the presnt loads are doing the job adequately, bound to cost more money.  Or is it just another money spinner.

[welshwarrior]

It’s a step forward over lead if your happy with your lead load don’t worry if you want to improve it try copper coated. Never tried it in 410 but it’s better in 12 and 20s imho. 

[rbrowning2]

Need convincing how a very soft metal like copper only a thousands of an inch thick or less put on top of another soft metal, lead can make any difference. Nickel coated shot may be as nickel is much harder than copper and lead, but copper?

happy to see the evidence and be proved wrong.

 

[Smokersmith]

Could it's benefits be more in 'lubrication' than in 'hardness' ? 

[grrclark]

4 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

Could it's benefits be more in 'lubrication' than in 'hardness' ? 

Lead coatings and lead alloys have been used extensively for lubricating purposes in engineering for a long time, basically any soft metal has lubrication qualities.

I would like to understand what the science is behind the theory of copper plated shot.

In terms of streaking in the barrel, copper is likely to leave a harder plating than lead and become harder to remove, it is also more reactive than lead so would be interesting to see if it makes a difference in erosion corrosion or galvanic corrosion in the barrel, i.e. would it make the barrel pit faster or slower than lead fouling.

[martinj]

13 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Lead coatings and lead alloys have been used extensively for lubricating purposes in engineering for a long time, basically any soft metal has lubrication qualities.

I would like to understand what the science is behind the theory of copper plated shot.

In terms of streaking in the barrel, copper is likely to leave a harder plating than lead and become harder to remove, it is also more reactive than lead so would be interesting to see if it makes a difference in erosion corrosion or galvanic corrosion in the barrel, i.e. would it make the barrel pit faster or slower than lead fouling.

I think they do it because they can - then think up a reason why we should use it and pay for the privilege.

Copper might have lubricating properties but so has lead, copper might be harder than lead but hardly in the thicknesses they apply. Lead is poisonous but so is Copper - copper sulphate was used for killing moss and algae, it's not good for plants full stop. Remind me  again why I should be using it?

[bigroomboy]

On 30/11/2019 at 17:30, muncher said:

I shot a pink with copper coated BB and found a pellet still had the copper coating intact.

Interesting. Copper may be bad for some things but it's not as toxic as lead. I do wonder if such a thin coating reduced the amount of lead in the meat? I guess it must to some extent?

[matone]

Burrard totally dismissed its usefullness in his treatise! I`d go with marketing gimmick on that basis alone.

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, matone said:

Burrard totally dismissed its usefullness in his treatise! I`d go with marketing gimmick on that basis alone.

This has been coming in and out like the tide since it was first devised in 1878. If there was really a need to inprove the ballistic performance of a shotgun we could form the load into one lump, fiddle around with the shape and call it a bullet thus negating the one thing that makes the gun so effective on moving targets. The best aerodynamic performance of any sphere in flight is by a golf ball the design of which takes full advantage of the unavoidable boundary layer. Anyone who wants to make a name for themselves and a right load of dosh into the bargain just needs to come up with a pellet that retains its shape and can be precisely covered in dimples of an exact depth. There's plenty of time as the advent of tungsten shot will do in the interim and will probably work out to be ten times cheaper.

[swan40]

In my experience eley zenith just  kills better than just plain lead -dead -no runners(nearly always)- and as they are not the fastest I think there must be some benefit , better than you may think. have a go worth the cost of a box. 

However  I now use nickel  ---this moves it up a gear in my mind which is  all that counts.  The cost of a days shooting is not impacted upon wether the cartridges cost £5 box or £15  , the main thing is if you you think the cartridge is  good - it is  . One of the best game shots I have shot with in the last year or two uses a 25inch Churchill that he has shot with since he was 14 now 80 - 1oz of 7s (hull imperial) which he says can't be improved upon.

Not one thing about his combination of gun and cartridges is popular now  but- it was -it still works - not 34grams of 5 shot (which is probably even larger) though a 32inch  full choke trap gun that all up and coming game shooters now seem to need . 

It took me a long while to appreciate that 30 grams of 6s was the the most popular game cartridge in most of England for a reason . It just works .

Nothing wrong with 7 shot  for most of the  season but bit of a job to find in most gun shops in game cartridges now a days .  Winchester trap 200s were my go to for years, and never let anyone tell you 2.4mm shot is to small for driven pheasants .

I have now moved on to 2.7mm shot nickel plated (good and thick)  .It works for me and  keeps me happy-  kills dead  which is all I ask .

 

[London Best]

A lot of sense in your post sir.

[PPP]

On 19/12/2019 at 19:40, swan40 said:

In my experience eley zenith just  kills better than just plain lead -dead -no runners(nearly always)- and as they are not the fastest I think there must be some benefit , better than you may think. have a go worth the cost of a box. 

However  I now use nickel  ---this moves it up a gear in my mind which is  all that counts.  The cost of a days shooting is not impacted upon wether the cartridges cost £5 box or £15  , the main thing is if you you think the cartridge is  good - it is  . One of the best game shots I have shot with in the last year or two uses a 25inch Churchill that he has shot with since he was 14 now 80 - 1oz of 7s (hull imperial) which he says can't be improved upon.

Not one thing about his combination of gun and cartridges is popular now  but- it was -it still works - not 34grams of 5 shot (which is probably even larger) though a 32inch  full choke trap gun that all up and coming game shooters now seem to need . 

It took me a long while to appreciate that 30 grams of 6s was the the most popular game cartridge in most of England for a reason . It just works .

Nothing wrong with 7 shot  for most of the  season but bit of a job to find in most gun shops in game cartridges now a days .  Winchester trap 200s were my go to for years, and never let anyone tell you 2.4mm shot is to small for driven pheasants .

I have now moved on to 2.7mm shot nickel plated (good and thick)  .It works for me and  keeps me happy-  kills dead  which is all I ask .

 

I use Gamebore white gold in 2.4mm 1oz on driven grouse and traditional Partridge, brilliant load 😀

[welshwarrior]

All I can say as I done know the science is the copper plated shot kills cleaner than lead on its own.  
I’ve done a blind testing with identical cartridges in all respects but the shot.  You could tell the difference in the kills most of the time on good birds.  

[dodeer]

On 19/12/2019 at 19:40, swan40 said:

In my experience eley zenith just  kills better than just plain lead -dead -no runners(nearly always)- and as they are not the fastest I think there must be some benefit , better than you may think. have a go worth the cost of a box. 

However  I now use nickel  ---this moves it up a gear in my mind which is  all that counts.  The cost of a days shooting is not impacted upon wether the cartridges cost £5 box or £15  , the main thing is if you you think the cartridge is  good - it is  . One of the best game shots I have shot with in the last year or two uses a 25inch Churchill that he has shot with since he was 14 now 80 - 1oz of 7s (hull imperial) which he says can't be improved upon.

Not one thing about his combination of gun and cartridges is popular now  but- it was -it still works - not 34grams of 5 shot (which is probably even larger) though a 32inch  full choke trap gun that all up and coming game shooters now seem to need . 

It took me a long while to appreciate that 30 grams of 6s was the the most popular game cartridge in most of England for a reason . It just works .

Nothing wrong with 7 shot  for most of the  season but bit of a job to find in most gun shops in game cartridges now a days .  Winchester trap 200s were my go to for years, and never let anyone tell you 2.4mm shot is to small for driven pheasants .

I have now moved on to 2.7mm shot nickel plated (good and thick)  .It works for me and  keeps me happy-  kills dead  which is all I ask .

 

Well said.  My friend is now using 32g 7.5 shot with fibre wads for most of his game shooting and getting on really well with them 

[wymberley]

13 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

All I can say as I done know the science is the copper plated shot kills cleaner than lead on its own.  
I’ve done a blind testing with identical cartridges in all respects but the shot.  You could tell the difference in the kills most of the time on good birds.  

If your "done" is 'don't', I'm with you. A sharp bright knife will cut better than a dull blunt one. I would imagine that the operative word is, "kills" and that if two equally sized  pellets having the same velocity and sectional density, then the bright shiney and smoother one is going to slice through fur/feather and flesh more easliy than the other. To what degree though I know not especially if you were comparing a copper coated one with, say, a Diamond shot quality alternative. Comparing the ranges in question would also be problematic as I guess they would be critical.

[Guest cookoff013]

Swan40,

An ounce of 7s are not the pinicle of game loads. Not at 1300fps which most loads are. 

Do you know that most loads get re formulated from manufacturers to stay inline with trends year on year? Often not for the better.

i bet when your friend /game shooting friend was shooting 1200 /1100fps loads at the start of his shooting career.

a good high quality 1200fps -1250 1,1/4oz of quality hard #6 lead is a fine sporting load.

For partridge an ounce of 7s is ideal.

I dont really go for this copper coating stuff.

 

[London Best]

1, 1/4 ounce of No.6 is totally unnecessary for probably 95% of game shooting in this country.