Interesting

[Walker570]

Just breaking down some Lylevale Fibre 410s for the shot and primers.  I was not at all happy with the performance of these cartridges and so no confidence in them and to be fair given them a fair trial with witnesses and they agrred with me, the shots where hitting but not doing the job.  Anyway, to the point. These shells are suppose to be fibre wad and yes, they do have a fibre wad BUT it is pushed out of the cartridge with an overpowder wad made from plastic, see photo.  Telling porkies are they ?   Thoughts ??  

Edited November 15, 2019 by Walker570

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Many of the Manufacturers seem to forget to mention the plastic obturator!

[Mice!]

Email the company and see how they respond. 

[Dave at kelton]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Email the company and see how they respond. 

Very common issue fibre wad and plastic obturator wad

[Smokersmith]

Good spot !

[Stonepark]

3 hours ago, Walker570 said:

 

Naughty, Naughty, Very Naughty!

[old man]

Possibly done to prevent them becoming tracers from fibre wad ignition?

[rbrowning2]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Possibly done to prevent them becoming tracers from fibre wad ignition?

Or possible done to improve ballistics for less powder and bigger profit or they don’t have any card type over nitro cards.

[Stonepark]

I supect if these are what acting as described,  I expect pressure is too high for the soft shot lyalvale tends to use resulting in patchy patterns.

[Centrepin]

Concerning the performance of these?

I bought a couple of boxes. £7.00 a box. 

My 12 year old Granddaughter and 6 year old grandson fire these and are not having much success. They're not the brand my son normally buys but where all my local guy had in at 2". After firing a few and consistent misses my son fired 4, beginners stand, 4 misses and we were both convinced he was on.

Are you saying you can be on, hit, and not have the power to break?

The week previous the 6 year old had 4 hits out of 6, with different brand. 

I'd appreciate any advice or recommendations on an affordable low recoil brand.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Centrepin
Add picture

[London Best]

Somebody gave me 50 of those, 2inch with No.6 shot, eighty odd pellets. I thought I may as well fire them off at clays for fun with a mate and we were astounded how good they were.

[Walker570]

54 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

Concerning the performance of these?

I bought a couple of boxes. £7.00 a box. 

My 12 year old Granddaughter and 6 year old grandson fire these and are not having much success. They're not the brand my son normally buys but where all my local guy had in at 2". After firing a few and consistent misses my son fired 4, beginners stand, 4 misses and we were both convinced he was on.

Are you saying you can be on, hit, and not have the power to break?

The week previous the 6 year old had 4 hits out of 6, with different brand. 

I'd appreciate any advice or recommendations on an affordable low recoil brand.

 

I purchased a slab of these a few years ago now becaue the shoot I was a member of wanted fibre wads used.  The first time I used them I had a pretty hot peg and just seemed not to be able to hit a thing. Now not bragging but I am a fairly consistend good shot.  I voiced my belief and my wife standing behind me said she thought I had hit quite afew.  At the end of the drive a picker up a couple of hundred yards behind me came over and said he had picked three or four birds I had hit. I didn't use them again and only this week decided to take them apart and at least use the shot in my own reloads, full fibre using and overshot card.  I had to use a few yesterday and although I only had the chance to shoot at half a dozen and knocked three from the sky two of them ran and fortunately the pickers up where on the job.  They are not up to the job in my opinion.

Just to be correct, mine where 3 inch 16gram loads supposedly fully fibre wad.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Walker570

[Centrepin]

36 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I purchased a slab of these a few years ago now becaue the shoot I was a member of wanted fibre wads used.  The first time I used them I had a pretty hot peg and just seemed not to be able to hit a thing. Now not bragging but I am a fairly consistend good shot.  I voiced my belief and my wife standing behind me said she thought I had hit quite afew.  At the end of the drive a picker up a couple of hundred yards behind me came over and said he had picked three or four birds I had hit. I didn't use them again and only this week decided to take them apart and at least use the shot in my own reloads, full fibre using and overshot card.  I had to use a few yesterday and although I only had the chance to shoot at half a dozen and knocked three from the sky two of them ran and fortunately the pickers up where on the job.  They are not up to the job in my opinion.

Just to be correct, mine where 3 inch 16gram loads supposedly fully fibre wad.

Thanks, these are 2" 9gram (I think) 6s. A chap who was watching my 6 year old shoot, commented that you would have to very accurate to break anything with them and the range was very limited.

I just need something to keep the little one hitting and his interest up without too much recoil.

[Westley]

31 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I purchased a slab of these a few years ago now becaue the shoot I was a member of wanted fibre wads used.  The first time I used them I had a pretty hot peg and just seemed not to be able to hit a thing. Now not bragging but I am a fairly consistend good shot.  I voiced my belief and my wife standing behind me said she thought I had hit quite afew.  At the end of the drive a picker up a couple of hundred yards behind me came over and said he had picked three or four birds I had hit. I didn't use them again and only this week decided to take them apart and at least use the shot in my own reloads, full fibre using and overshot card.  I had to use a few yesterday and although I only had the chance to shoot at half a dozen and knocked three from the sky two of them ran and fortunately the pickers up where on the job.  They are not up to the job in my opinion.

Just to be correct, mine where 3 inch 16gram loads supposedly fully fibre wad.

I had an identical experience when using the 12 bore version of Supreme Game in 6 shot 30 gram., through my Westley Richards S x S. At elevenses break,  I switched back to my usual Gamebore in the same load. Using the Express,  I knew that I was hitting stuff and,  like you,  it was a picker up that collected the birds that I HAD hit . Never used Express since.

[Ultrastu]

Im pretty sure it says plastic obturator on the box .

I think layvale..410 carts are rubbish .

Ive shot clays at 25 yds .that havent broken .walked over and picked them up to see lead splash marks on the clay .

Oh and they dont kill birds either .

[London Best]

I’m sorry to have to disagree with you, but I have shot hundreds of birds with Lyalvale 2 1/2 inch 14 gram cartridges in  No.7 and No.9 shot fired from my Army and Navy SxS. Pheasants, partridges, mallard ( before non toxic shot was required), pigeons and corvids. Best morning was 78 crows with No.9’s.

Oh, and I have used thousands of Supreme Game 28 gram 7’s through my regular 12 bore game gun to very good effect on partridges and pheasants. There is nothing wrong with those either.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Concerning the performance of these?

I bought a couple of boxes. £7.00 a box. 

My 12 year old Granddaughter and 6 year old grandson fire these and are not having much success. They're not the brand my son normally buys but where all my local guy had in at 2". After firing a few and consistent misses my son fired 4, beginners stand, 4 misses and we were both convinced he was on.

Are you saying you can be on, hit, and not have the power to break?

The week previous the 6 year old had 4 hits out of 6, with different brand. 

I'd appreciate any advice or recommendations on an affordable low recoil brand.

 

 

If you only have 2 inch chambers, you are very limited in choice (Eley or Lyalvale Express as far as I am aware), if you have 2 1/2 or 3 inch chamber, get some 9's for clays for preference, then 7.5, then 7's, then 6's

Worth pushing shop to stock what you want rather then them randomly pushing what they have on you.

[Centrepin]

10 hours ago, Stonepark said:

If you only have 2 inch chambers, you are very limited in choice (Eley or Lyalvale Express as far as I am aware), if you have 2 1/2 or 3 inch chamber, get some 9's for clays for preference, then 7.5, then 7's, then 6's

Worth pushing shop to stock what you want rather then them randomly pushing what they have on you.

It's not the chambers that are 2" they are 3" . I'm wanting 2" cartridges for no recoil for the 6 year old. Even with the butt cut down to fit my 12 year old, the 6 year old struggles to mount in the shoulder and either my son or I have to hold him and the gun. We don't want him put off by a thump in the cheek as he's really keen to shoot and already wants his own gun.

 

[Centrepin]

10 hours ago, London Best said:

I’m sorry to have to disagree with you, but I have shot hundreds of birds with Lyalvale 2 1/2 inch 14 gram cartridges in  No.7 and No.9 shot fired from my Army and Navy SxS. Pheasants, partridges, mallard ( before non toxic shot was required), pigeons and corvids. Best morning was 78 crows with No.9’s.

Oh, and I have used thousands of Supreme Game 28 gram 7’s through my regular 12 bore game gun to very good effect on partridges and pheasants. There is nothing wrong with those either.

I'm currently using lyalvale 21gram 7.5s in my 12 bore SBS for Clay's and they are ok. It's the .410 in 2" I'm worried about for the 6 year old. I want to keep him keen to shoot but no recoil, but he must also have some success. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Centrepin
Addition

[London Best]

Myself, I would think six is a little too young to be starting. It all depends on the child, of course. You are right, he needs success. You must keep him on the beginner’s teaching traps. Try and obtain the smallest shot size possible to keep some semblance of pattern with a .410. I like to use one of mine occasionally, but I would never purchase anything larger than No.7 for a .410, even for pheasants.

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

It's not the chambers that are 2" they are 3" . I'm wanting 2" cartridges for no recoil for the 6 year old. Even with the butt cut down to fit my 12 year old, the 6 year old struggles to mount in the shoulder and either my son or I have to hold him and the gun. We don't want him put off by a thump in the cheek as he's really keen to shoot and already wants his own gun.

 

The 2 inch fourten is eley.'s ' fastest ' 410 load at 9g being supposedly put out at 1207fps.

2 1/2 with 12.5g no7 fibre {fourlong which is virtually subsonic at 1080fps) or 14g no 9 plastic (eley trap which is only 1150fps) shot is not going to make the gun a kicker and from memory unless i checked what i was putting in barrel, there was little if any recoil difference as the normal weight of a 410 with 3 inch chamber is to cope with up to 21g but if using no9 it will make it a reliable clay crusher under 25 yards which will encouage the younguns.

 

At present you have a whole inch of chamber before the forcing cone where you have no gas seal (if you open up a 2 inch cartridge wad is quite short) and pressure and velocity can be severely affected downwards as hot gas mixes with pellets giving very poor patterns.

 

I would reccommend trying the 2.5 inch at least one box with a smaller shot size.

[Centrepin]

26 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

The 2 inch fourten is eley.'s ' fastest ' 410 load at 9g being supposedly put out at 1207fps.

2 1/2 with 12.5g no7 fibre {fourlong which is virtually subsonic at 1080fps) or 14g no 9 plastic (eley trap which is only 1150fps) shot is not going to make the gun a kicker and from memory unless i checked what i was putting in barrel, there was little if any recoil difference as the normal weight of a 410 with 3 inch chamber is to cope with up to 21g but if using no9 it will make it a reliable clay crusher under 25 yards which will encouage the younguns.

 

At present you have a whole inch of chamber before the forcing cone where you have no gas seal (if you open up a 2 inch cartridge wad is quite short) and pressure and velocity can be severely affected downwards as hot gas mixes with pellets giving very poor patterns.

 

I would reccommend trying the 2.5 inch at least one box with a smaller shot size.

Thanks, that's explained some things to me. 

My main worry is putting the little one off. Once he can mount it'll be different. 

[Stonepark]

13 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

Thanks, that's explained some things to me. 

My main worry is putting the little one off. Once he can mount it'll be different. 

I was similarly shooting a single barrel 410 on occasions at clays at that age (6) but also air rifle, at age 8 i got my own SxS (El Chimbo (Parkemy) hammer gun, 3 inch) for pigeons and for first year was only allowed 1 cartridge at a time which started off with 2.5 inch fourlong) no 6 mainly but changed to 3 inch by next year (Fiocchi as I recall) and both barrels, shooting everything.

A few of us on here also shoot 410 for game  and are always happy to answer any queries.

[Centrepin]

7 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

I was similarly shooting a single barrel 410 on occasions at clays at that age (6) but also air rifle, at age 8 i got my own SxS (El Chimbo (Parkemy) hammer gun, 3 inch) for pigeons and for first year was only allowed 1 cartridge at a time which started off with 2.5 inch fourlong) no 6 mainly but changed to 3 inch by next year (Fiocchi as I recall) and both barrels, shooting everything.

A few of us on here also shoot 410 for game  and are always happy to answer any queries.

The gun belongs to my Granddaughter, and the but was altered to fit. I'm thinking of starting a thread about how to help him as he's very keen. Thanks for your advice👍