Shotgun cartridge reloading law

[berettalover]

Hi everyone, 

I've been trying to research the law on loading my own shotgun cartridges and from what I can understand I'm allowed to buy almost everything I need with my shotgun licence. Is this correct? I was told I would need an FAC to buy primers? Just struggling  to find the info I need on the web. My FAC application is in the post bit will be a while before I hear anything and I'm super keen to give it a go.

Many thanks,

AP

[Smokersmith]

You don't need and FAC to buy shotgun primers .. crack on :-)

[rem708]

Technically you don't need a SG license to buy shotgun cartridges. The shops ask as it proves you are not prohibited under section 21 of the firearms act. Shop might ask to see it for primers as there is some restriction on who can purchase

[DUNKS]

Good advice so far but unless you need special loads please look at the pricing. I only load black powder which is a considerable saving over retail but from what I have read it's cheaper to buy standard cartridges retail than to reload.

[Guest cookoff013]

good straight info here.

[berettalover]

I'm not looking at loading anything special, just like the idea of shooting with something I've made, I know I'm not gonna save any money but just looking to get a bit more enjoyment out of my shooting. Looks like I better start ordering some kit!

[Dave at kelton]

31 minutes ago, berettalover said:

I'm not looking at loading anything special, just like the idea of shooting with something I've made, I know I'm not gonna save any money but just looking to get a bit more enjoyment out of my shooting. Looks like I better start ordering some kit!

I have just bought a job lot of components so before you buy anything let me know as I was going to advertise for sale. I have 12 bore plastic wads and may have some unprimed cases. Other bits like primers you would have to collect from me as they are too expensive to post. PM if interested and will let you have details.

[team tractor]

Surely it’s the same as Fac ? You can buy all the components with out any proof? 
put them together and then it’s a different matter even tho with a shotgun you actually don’t require a sgc for carts. Never tried buying with out tho  

[rbrowning2]

5 hours ago, team tractor said:

Surely it’s the same as Fac ? You can buy all the components with out any proof? 
put them together and then it’s a different matter even tho with a shotgun you actually don’t require a sgc for carts. Never tried buying with out tho  

No it’s not the same as FAC where since the violent crime reduction VCR bill became law you need to show your FAC to buy metallic cartridge primers and need the appropriate size requirement on your FAC so you can not buy large rifle primers if you only have a .223 for example. The VCR bill is also the reason you must buy them face to face from an RFD no mail order.

however shotgun primers were excluded from the VCR bill.

 

[team tractor]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

No it’s not the same as FAC where since the violent crime reduction VCR bill became law you need to show your FAC to buy metallic cartridge primers and need the appropriate size requirement on your FAC so you can not buy large rifle primers if you only have a .223 for example. The VCR bill is also the reason you must buy them face to face from an RFD no mail order.

however shotgun primers were excluded from the VCR bill.

 

I stand corrected but it’s still daft. 
no sgc required to buy carts but a primer is prohibited . 

[robbiep]

Why are you saying no SGC required to buy cartridges ?

Is that something new in the law ?

[snow white]

Where does it say you need fac to buy specific primers ie large or small can you please show me.

[robbiep]

42 minutes ago, snow white said:

Where does it say you need fac to buy specific primers ie large or small can you please show me.

Have a look at the Home Office Handbook, Section 5.16

In particular, this paragraph

c) produces a certificate (i.e. the original, not a photocopy) authorising them to possess a firearm of a relevant kind (i.e. a firearm other than a shotgun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition) or ammunition for such a firearm;

I'd suggest the 'specific primers' part referring to 'large / small rifle primers' comes from that paragraph, where you need to be authorised to possess ammunition for such a firearm of a 'relevant kind'

[team tractor]

11 hours ago, robbiep said:

Why are you saying no SGC required to buy cartridges ?

Is that something new in the law ?

It’s always been the same. I admit I’ve never met a shop that don’t ask

11 hours ago, snow white said:

Where does it say you need fac to buy specific primers ie large or small can you please show me.

I’m never asked for mine but my Fac is on the system at the shop I go to so maybe that’s why . 

Edited December 6, 2019 by team tractor

[rbrowning2]

12 hours ago, snow white said:

Where does it say you need fac to buy specific primers ie large or small can you please show me.

See 2006 VCR bill section 35

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/contents

 

13 hours ago, team tractor said:

I stand corrected but it’s still daft. 
no sgc required to buy carts but a primer is prohibited . 

No sgc required to buy shotgun primers that is why some black powder pistols have been converted to use them and only held on a FAC.

But the opposite is true if using the brass shotgun cases that use metallic primers then you can only buy the primers if you have an FAC which is a pain.

 

[Ozz]

This is a crazy one I just brought the all brass 410 carts from clay n game  now my local shop was willing to sell me the large pistol /small rifle primers with my sgc in hand and verbally listening to what I was doing ie reloading the 410 brass carts. Now he never had any in stock after he went looking so I tryed another shop where I go only now an then for 410 and 9mm rf as they always have a good selection for my 410  . anyway he wouldn't sell the primers without an fac. I'm  OK becuase I do have an fac but is only for 22 air rifle with mod? So in theory I was buying  primers for my air rifle lol. 

One thing I will say is I was new to reloading brought the carts then realised normal wads are to loose. However clay and game (not that I'm promoting anyone I just felt comfterble with them after chewing there ears at the midland game fair) have evrything I needed and didn't mind advising me. I had evrything off them appart from powder n primers. 

Oh and I'm now  reloading my 410 now so I can make my own bismuth n possibly steel for when the lead ban comes (not loading steel in the brass) I'm keeping all the good quality empties I can.  My resen is I use my 410 norica 3 shot bolt all the time and don't want to get rid when the time comes she's an old girl but reliable

Edited December 8, 2019 by Ozz
Spelling

[rbrowning2]

1 hour ago, Ozz said:

This is a crazy one .............I'm  OK becuase I do have an fac but is only for 22 air rifle with mod? So in theory I was buying  primers for my air rifle lol. 

No in theory the rfd selling you the primers has just broken the VCR law as your FAC for air rifles does not meet the requirements to purchase the metallic cartridge primers.

The part we agree on is that it is crazy, because if you got a friend with an FAC and correct requirements  to purchase said primers, then he could then sell them to you without breaking the VCR law.

ignorance is no excuse or defence against the law.

 

[Lever357]

On 06/12/2019 at 07:39, team tractor said:

It’s always been the same. I admit I’ve never met a shop that don’t ask

I’m never asked for mine but my Fac is on the system at the shop I go to so maybe that’s why . 

So as per the gov website quoted above, you DO need a SGC to buy shotgun cartridges, whether that be from a shop or off your mate. And as it also states, you do NOT require a certificate to hold the cartridges.

[team tractor]

9 hours ago, Lever357 said:

So as per the gov website quoted above, you DO need a SGC to buy shotgun cartridges, whether that be from a shop or off your mate. And as it also states, you do NOT require a certificate to hold the cartridges.

It says “ is NOT required “

[derbyduck]

On 06/12/2019 at 09:08, rbrowning2 said:

See 2006 VCR bill section 35

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/contents

 

No sgc required to buy shotgun primers that is why some black powder pistols have been converted to use them and only held on a FAC.

But the opposite is true if using the brass shotgun cases that use metallic primers then you can only buy the primers if you have an FAC which is a pain.

 

so would it be possible to get a FAC just to buy  metallic primers ?

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, derbyduck said:

so would it be possible to get a FAC just to buy  metallic primers ?

May be ask your FEO.

But ozz as clay n game should I think, have made you aware of the problem obtaining the primers for the .410 brass case at the time you purchased them and checked you had a FAC with suitable caliber to need/buy the primers. Given they also need an oversize wad I stoped using them.

if need be send them back for a refund. 

[Lever357]

On 09/12/2019 at 07:55, team tractor said:

It says “ is NOT required “

NOT required to possess or aquire - I think this is largely accepted to mean you do not need a licence to be in possession of cartridges or to aquire them, ie if I gave some to my mate he does not need a licence. It then goes on to say "However, a shotgun certificate is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges" - so if purchasing from a shop or from a person who is selling cartridges, then you would need to produce your licence. 

[Seadog1408]

If you want to use the magtec brass cases, they require a pistol primer which needs a FAC to purchase, however you can ream out the cases to accept standard shotgun primers, I have done this with the .410 cases with no problems whatsoever.

[Lord v]

13 hours ago, Lever357 said:

NOT required to possess or aquire - I think this is largely accepted to mean you do not need a licence to be in possession of cartridges or to aquire them, ie if I gave some to my mate he does not need a licence. It then goes on to say "However, a shotgun certificate is normally required to purchase shotgun cartridges" - so if purchasing from a shop or from a person who is selling cartridges, then you would need to produce your licence. 

'normally' - i.e. not every time, not a legal requirement. 

As stated above, a SGC is the easiest check to show the person buying isn't a prohibited person. 

[sportsbob]

This says you DO need to produce a certificate to purchase shotgun cartridges.

5.14

Section 5 of the 1988 Act prohibits the sale of ammunition for a shotgun or smoothbore gun, and for which a firearm certificate is not required, to a person who is neither a registered firearms dealer nor a person who sells such ammunition by way of trade or business unless that person:

a) produces a shotgun certificate or a firearm certificate (the original, not a photocopy) authorising them to possess a smooth-bore gun;

b) shows that they are entitled to possess a shotgun or smooth-bore gun without holding a certificate;

or c) produces a certificate (the original, not a photocopy) of some other person together with a written authority from the holder of the certificate to purchase the ammunition on their behalf. This section only applies to ammunition not subject to control under section 1 of the 1968 Act. There is no requirement for a vendor of shotgun cartridges to be registered as a firearms dealer.