Predictions on the next labour leadership

[panoma1]

With age comes experience.......as we age, the fiery Left wing labour militants rhetoric is seen for what it is......********! and they are............********ers preying on gullible and inexperienced voters......with empty promises!.....ask yourself, why do Labour want the vote for 16 year old children?

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

ask yourself, why do Labour want the vote for 16 year old children?

Exactly ! Theyve just had 11+ years of left wing indoctrination through our school system.

[udderlyoffroad]

So it's a choice between the man responsible for Labour's Brexit policy, Corbyn in a skirt, Lady Nugee (her of mocking white van man fame), Jess popular-on-twitter-but-not-in-real-life-Phillips, and Lisa Nandy (who?).

What a shower.

 

[Vince Green]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Spell it out what your assertion is, stop being cryptic !

Youve supplied a poll of 2000 people showing the older you are , the more likely to you are to vote tory.
And come to the conclusion the cons are 'dead men walking' ?
So unless theres a cull of oldies on the horizon only you know about, the assertion is , in fact , rubbish.

I would be more interested by finding out how EU citizens voted. That might explain Labour's leaning towards remain 

[chrisjpainter]

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Spell it out what your assertion is, stop being cryptic !

Youve supplied a poll of 2000 people showing the older you are , the more likely to you are to vote tory.
And come to the conclusion the cons are 'dead men walking' ?
So unless theres a cull of oldies on the horizon only you know about, the assertion is , in fact , rubbish.

I think the basic premise is that the younger generations that are voting Labour will naturally over time replace the Cons as they die (long term projection, obviously). Fair enough, in a way, but what that doesn't take into account is the party political switch based on preservation of pre-existing convictions. The Tories will (should) continue to fight to preserve conservative, more traditional values. What those are depends on the cultural development of the nation. So go back 50,60,70 years. It would have been abhorrent to most conservative voters to first legalise homosexuality and then allow gay marriage - but it was a Tory-led coalition and a Tory Prime minister who brought it in. It's not killed the party, in fact it's broadened it considerably, making it easier for younger, more socially liberal voters to vote Tory on economic grounds because there are fewer contemporary social hangups to stop them. 

The challenge for all political parties is to move with the times, whilst protecting what has already given them influence. Far from signalling the inevitable (if protracted) death of the Tories, I think those graphs show that the Tories are in a far better position to move forward than perhaps they ever have been. Those statistics also show that the switch age (where it becomes more likely someone will vote Tory) has come down by 7 years to 40. Given the population age is increasing that's a big regression. It shows that voters are appreciating Tory economic policies at a younger age. And there's a broader diversity to consider. This election has broken so many deeply held convictions for people who'd never vote Tory on principle. setting that precedent allows the Tories to speak for much more diverse areas. 

The question is if all that's true of the Tories, and the stats and election seem to show that it is, what does it say about that abject failure of the Labour Party?

Edited January 13, 2020 by chrisjpainter

[udderlyoffroad]

8 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I would be more interested by finding out how EU citizens voted. That might explain Labour's leaning towards remain 

It was a general election, not an EU parliament election, so not at all.

 

3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

The question is if all that's true of the Tories, and the stats and election seem to show that it is, what does it say about that abject failure of the Labour Party?

Put far more elegantly than I could have done.  Labour can't count on families who for generations have voted Labour on principle anymore.  In any case, 'millennials' (born between 1981 and 1996) barely remember Thatcher, and their children certainly don't, so the whatever your opinion is of Maggie, she doesn't figure on the radar of people below the age of 40.

[Vince Green]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

With age comes experience.......as we age, the fiery Left wing labour militants rhetoric is seen for what it is......********! and they are............********ers preying on gullible and inexperienced voters......with empty promises!.....ask yourself, why do Labour want the vote for 16 year old children?

Labour have always made empty promises and they have to maintain an underclass to vote for them

[chrisjpainter]

6 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It was a general election, not an EU parliament election, so not at all.

 

Put far more elegantly than I could have done.  Labour can't count on families who for generations have voted Labour on principle anymore.  In any case, 'millennials' (born between 1981 and 1996) barely remember Thatcher, and their children certainly don't, so the whatever your opinion is of Maggie, she doesn't figure on the radar of people below the age of 40.

Who? 

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

The challenge for all political parties is to move with the times, whilst protecting what has already given them influence. Far from signalling the inevitable (if protracted) death of the Tories, I think those graphs show that the Tories are in a far better position to move forward than perhaps they ever have been. Those statistics also show that the switch age (where it becomes more likely someone will vote Tory) has come down by 7 years to 40. Given the population age is increasing that's a big regression. It shows that voters are appreciating Tory economic policies at a younger age. And there's a broader diversity to consider. This election has broken so many deeply held convictions for people who'd never vote Tory on principle. setting that precedent allows the Tories to speak for much more diverse areas. 

Correct, but I think we all need to get rid of the stereotypical ideas of what labour and tory voters are.
The 'worker underclass' downtrodden and abused by the 'upper class' champagne swilling tories , is a fantasy land idea, that the likes of corbyn and momentum still think they can win elections with.
The only time in the last 50 years we have had a labour government, is when they briefly turned into the conservative party 😂 as soon as they  turned back into labour they got booted.

This is the political reality of today, an opposition that thinks it can get back into power by telling us that 95% of us are poor and downtrodden (again) by the 5 % champagne swillers !
The only thing is , we arent broadly illiterate anymore, and have communications and resources our grandparents couldnt even imagine.

Labour in its present form are toast, unelectable and unpalatable, if London were not what it is demographically, they would be even less than that.

Its often touted that its the left who are progressive, but in this country, its the left that are mired in the past, still bleating about oppression of the masses, by the 'elite'
Yet the left wing champagne socialist elite cannot see the irony of their doctrine.
Its all a bit sad..for them, as they still cant see whats wrong with the picture.

[udderlyoffroad]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Correct, but I think we all need to get rid of the stereotypical ideas of what labour and tory voters are.

Exactly.  All this guff spouted about 'working class' roots of the leadership candidates.  What does that even mean anymore?  A skilled and qualified tradesman can very easily out-earn a graduate these days, and of course access to higher education has never been more universal, despite the debt it can entail.

That's not to say we're living in some sort of egalitarian utopia, far from it, but the clichés about voters the media pundits love (workington man, red walls, etc) all seem to crumble the minute one steps outside the M25.

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Its often touted that its the left who are progressive, but in this country, its the left that are mired in the past, still bleating about oppression of the masses, by the 'elite'
Yet the left wing champagne socialist elite cannot see the irony of their doctrine.

Dead right

 

[Vince Green]

7 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Exactly.  All this guff spouted about 'working class' roots of the leadership candidates.  What does that even mean anymore?  A skilled and qualified tradesman can very easily out-earn a graduate these days, and of course access to higher education has never been more universal, despite the debt it can entail.

That's not to say we're living in some sort of egalitarian utopia, far from it, but the clichés about voters the media pundits love (workington man, red walls, etc) all seem to crumble the minute one steps outside the M25.

They don't even have to be a skilled tradesman. A lot of menial jobs outperform what a graduate can earn.

However, your comment about outside the M25 is getting near the truth. There are vast tracts of the country where the job situation is minimum wage or nothing 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well now we have 5 people vieing for the leadership and whichever one wins we will not see any change and labour can be consined to the wilderness.

 

Bring on some good degree of rationilisation of the upper house and the civil servants and maybe we can get on with returning this country to some of the greatness we once enjoyed.

[Jaymo]

Phew , my MP didn’t make the cut 🙂

[Penelope]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Exactly ! Theyve just had 11+ years of left wing indoctrination through our school system.

Don't forget university. You think schools are bad!!

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Correct, but I think we all need to get rid of the stereotypical ideas of what labour and tory voters are.
The 'worker underclass' downtrodden and abused by the 'upper class' champagne swilling tories , is a fantasy land idea, that the likes of corbyn and momentum still think they can win elections with.
The only time in the last 50 years we have had a labour government, is when they briefly turned into the conservative party 😂 as soon as they  turned back into labour they got booted.

This is the political reality of today, an opposition that thinks it can get back into power by telling us that 95% of us are poor and downtrodden (again) by the 5 % champagne swillers !
The only thing is , we arent broadly illiterate anymore, and have communications and resources our grandparents couldnt even imagine.

Labour in its present form are toast, unelectable and unpalatable, if London were not what it is demographically, they would be even less than that.

Its often touted that its the left who are progressive, but in this country, its the left that are mired in the past, still bleating about oppression of the masses, by the 'elite'
Yet the left wing champagne socialist elite cannot see the irony of their doctrine.
Its all a bit sad..for them, as they still cant see whats wrong with the picture.

How's your son's future mother in law holding up? She must be distraught.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Phew , my MP didn’t make the cut 🙂

he is saving himself for you...........he might be a bit rough

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, ditchman said:

he is saving himself for you...........he might be a bit rough

Ex Army Officer is our Clive, I bet he loves silver hot pants!

[Rewulf]

47 minutes ago, Penelope said:

 

How's your son's future mother in law holding up? She must be distraught.

She has her ardent feminist causes to keep her righteous anger burning. 😹

I don't really interact with her, but her husbands sound. 

[Jaymo]

36 minutes ago, ditchman said:

he is saving himself for you...........he might be a bit rough

Ah, he wouldn’t want to mess up his ‘pretty boy’ nails n make up

36 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Ex Army Officer is our Clive, I bet he loves silver hot pants!

I only wear them for Ditchie

[ditchman]

8 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Ah, he wouldn’t want to mess up his ‘pretty boy’ nails n make up

I only wear them for Ditchie

you only want me when they need mending ........

[mel b3]

23 minutes ago, ditchman said:

you only want me when they need mending ........

You ripped em , you mend em 😅

[ditchman]

51 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

You ripped em , you mend em 😅

nooo it was a simple job...he wanted me to put handles on them ...thats all

[mel b3]

6 hours ago, ditchman said:

nooo it was a simple job...he wanted me to put handles on them ...thats all

Explain the teeth marks then 😆.

[Mungler]

1990, Day 1 at Manchester, our course lecturer gives a speech which starts with ‘ah you’re all here, you’re all right on and ready to change the world eh; I bet you’ve all even signed up with the Socialist Worker lot?’ He then starts laughing to himself and says ‘ah the naivety of youth, give it 10 years and you start to pay tax and you’ll soon be voting Tory’.

That’s always stuck with me because it’s true. People will be groovy and woke for so long as it suits them and their personal identity at any particular time. 

My Humanities studying housemate at the time (who long term wanted to be a stockbroker) joined the Student Socialist Worker Party only because he thought it would make him more appealing to the opposite sex 😝

Daft naive young people don’t tend to stay that way forever; they have to grow up, get employed / run a business, pay tax, become a parent and so on.

If labour are counting on retaining the young vote when it matures, well they really shouldn’t. 

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

1990, Day 1 at Manchester, our course lecturer gives a speech which starts with ‘ah you’re all here, you’re all right on and ready to change the world eh; I bet you’ve all even signed up with the Socialist Worker lot?’ 

 

When I was at college in the 70s the Socialist Worker, Workers Revolutionary Party and CND people  were all over the refectories and student union bars like cockroaches. You couldn't sit down without somebody engaging you in  animated conversation.

A lot of people when they first go to college were a bit lonely and feeling isolated so these cockroaches acted like a support group, your new best mates, meetings, drinks in the bar etc

Edited January 14, 2020 by Vince Green