Caroline Flack RIP

[Smokersmith]

We take MH very seriously at work and train our teams to spot signs and give people the opportunity to shout for help.

 

On a lighter note, let's hope Kreighoffoverblaser is OK.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Smokersmith

[panoma1]

8 minutes ago, Big Mat said:

This post highlights your incredible lack of knowledge about mental illness. Maybe you'll understand if one of your loved ones decides to take their own life, but i doubt it.

No it doesn’t! The original posting had nothing to do with mental health or people’s opinion on it!.....My posting was not about suffering in life, or about people dying prematurely through terminal illness...it was about the selfishness of suicide and the effect it has on the loved ones left to mourn.

[harrycatcat1]

16 hours ago, pork chop said:

Poor lass ,mental health is so cruel .My heart goes out to her family ,I lost my son in November n it’s torn my life apart

rip

I am so sorry to hear that pal.

[Davyo]

I dont think people have a full understanding about Mental health. I was one of them and feel totally ashamed of myself.Unless you've been there you haven't a scooby do.I had the 'oh it's just another bad back syndrome' for some time off work attitude when colleague's said they were depressed.

Four years ago I found out for myself just how bad mental health can be and the stigma around it.Fortunatly i had a good team around me who got me the help i desperately needed after i hid from it for 2 yrs.I never got to the point where i thought I'd end it all, but god i came very very close.Its unfair to say that it's the Cowards way out.It seems like the only option to waking up to yet another day of mental torture.The constant feeling of anxiety and other emotions are hard to handle all day every day.I also believe that you never really recover and that you will always be in recovery.Its more about managing you life and emotions. Most importantly though it's about coming forward and talking about it.Dont be afraid to talk, my mistake was I bottled it up for almost 2 years. My wife didn't even know,she just thought I didnt love her anymore.When I went into therapy I nearly walked out but stuck with it for the full 12 weeks.I now know  how to manage my mental health and now i can open up to anybody.Im no longer ashamed of my ilness becausec know I can beat it. Yes I have bad days but I can bring myself round 

 I remember the turning point when I went  back into work (was terrified to face my team). I just found myself opening up (this is where the therapy helped) I told them everything. They were so understanding, I should of opened up sooner.I remember one of the girls just giving me a big hug, its surprising how good a hug makes you feel.

I took medication for 3 years but decided after consulting my GP to come off.I really was not sure if I was genuinely feeling better or I was reliant on the medication for my mood.

 If you think you  have a friend or family member that's suffering just ask them if they fancy a chat.Honestly its the best medication out there!

 

[panoma1]

21 minutes ago, Davyo said:

I dont think people have a full understanding about Mental health. I was one of them and feel totally ashamed of myself.Unless you've been there you haven't a scooby do.I had the 'oh it's just another bad back syndrome' for some time off work attitude when colleague's said they were depressed.

Four years ago I found out for myself just how bad mental health can be and the stigma around it.Fortunatly i had a good team around me who got me the help i desperately needed after i hid from it for 2 yrs.I never got to the point where i thought I'd end it all, but god i came very very close.Its unfair to say that it's the Cowards way out.It seems like the only option to waking up to yet another day of mental torture.The constant feeling of anxiety and other emotions are hard to handle all day every day.I also believe that you never really recover and that you will always be in recovery.Its more about managing you life and emotions. Most importantly though it's about coming forward and talking about it.Dont be afraid to talk, my mistake was I bottled it up for almost 2 years. My wife didn't even know,she just thought I didnt love her anymore.When I went into therapy I nearly walked out but stuck with it for the full 12 weeks.I now know  how to manage my mental health and now i can open up to anybody.Im no longer ashamed of my ilness becausec know I can beat it. Yes I have bad days but I can bring myself round 

 I remember the turning point when I went  back into work (was terrified to face my team). I just found myself opening up (this is where the therapy helped) I told them everything. They were so understanding, I should of opened up sooner.I remember one of the girls just giving me a big hug, its surprising how good a hug makes you feel.

I took medication for 3 years but decided after consulting my GP to come off.I really was not sure if I was genuinely feeling better or I was reliant on the medication for my mood.

 If you think you  have a friend or family member that's suffering just ask them if they fancy a chat.Honestly its the best medication out there!

 

Suicide due to mental health issues may be selfish, but is not a cowards way out.........suicide to avoid accounting for alleged misconduct is both selfish and a cowards way out!

*NOTE*      This is a general observation NOT directed at any individual!

[washerboy]

My cousin killed himself at 21 years old, I honestly believe its a selfish act. 

He didn't seek help, just rang his twin sister and hung himself in his dad's garage. 

As for this famous person, she could afford help? 

She could have gone abroad, gone into some kind of wellness centre.? 

Still think it's wrong that the papers and TV are getting the blunt of the blame. 

[Big Mat]

34 minutes ago, washerboy said:

My cousin killed himself at 21 years old, I honestly believe its a selfish act. 

He didn't seek help, just rang his twin sister and hung himself in his dad's garage. 

As for this famous person, she could afford help? 

She could have gone abroad, gone into some kind of wellness centre.? 

Still think it's wrong that the papers and TV are getting the blunt of the blame. 

There is a big difference being able to afford help, and being in the right state of mind to seek help

[clangerman]

who the hell do you people think you are to lecture me when i never had the luxury of a break down because i had children to think of you give out to people when you have no idea of the death or mind raping life they endured how dare you decide what view or opinion people should hold you wouldn’t last ten secs leading my life so thank you for waking the memories that give me my edge 

[pork chop]

6 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

You don’t have to had heard of her, it’s the same disease whether you’re famous or not.

It been reported on the news this morning that 57% of absence from work last year was due to anxiety and depression.

Take from that what you will....

Mental health and associated illness is out there a lot more than people are prepared to admit and for the media to constantly hound someone to the point they take their own life is incredulous.

Of course they will deny it’s anything to do with them.

Mental health is a massive problem 

I had a breakdown last summer after years of a unhappy relationship which I ended after 27years.I got so bad I ended up on a ward for a few days ,because of this I’ve lost the sport I love( because I had my certs revoked) the woman I love who I was weeks away from asking to marry me had holiday booked n everything .Then my sons relationship broke down n he took his own life which I fully blame myself for  ,I’ve worked 20 hours since November n missed a lot of work last year 

People who say those who take their own life are generally clueless ,unless you’ve been there you won’t fully understand it’s a very dark place n no matter how many people n family you have supporting you it’s a very very lonely place .My heart goes out to anyone who’s gone or going through mental health issues 

3 hours ago, Davyo said:

I dont think people have a full understanding about Mental health. I was one of them and feel totally ashamed of myself.Unless you've been there you haven't a scooby do.I had the 'oh it's just another bad back syndrome' for some time off work attitude when colleague's said they were depressed.

Four years ago I found out for myself just how bad mental health can be and the stigma around it.Fortunatly i had a good team around me who got me the help i desperately needed after i hid from it for 2 yrs.I never got to the point where i thought I'd end it all, but god i came very very close.Its unfair to say that it's the Cowards way out.It seems like the only option to waking up to yet another day of mental torture.The constant feeling of anxiety and other emotions are hard to handle all day every day.I also believe that you never really recover and that you will always be in recovery.Its more about managing you life and emotions. Most importantly though it's about coming forward and talking about it.Dont be afraid to talk, my mistake was I bottled it up for almost 2 years. My wife didn't even know,she just thought I didnt love her anymore.When I went into therapy I nearly walked out but stuck with it for the full 12 weeks.I now know  how to manage my mental health and now i can open up to anybody.Im no longer ashamed of my ilness becausec know I can beat it. Yes I have bad days but I can bring myself round 

 I remember the turning point when I went  back into work (was terrified to face my team). I just found myself opening up (this is where the therapy helped) I told them everything. They were so understanding, I should of opened up sooner.I remember one of the girls just giving me a big hug, its surprising how good a hug makes you feel.

I took medication for 3 years but decided after consulting my GP to come off.I really was not sure if I was genuinely feeling better or I was reliant on the medication for my mood.

 If you think you  have a friend or family member that's suffering just ask them if they fancy a chat.Honestly its the best medication out there!

 

Feel for you pal ,I can relate to a lot of what you’ve put 

[shalfordninja33]

3 hours ago, Davyo said:

I dont think people have a full understanding about Mental health. I was one of them and feel totally ashamed of myself.Unless you've been there you haven't a scooby do.I had the 'oh it's just another bad back syndrome' for some time off work attitude when colleague's said they were depressed.

Four years ago I found out for myself just how bad mental health can be and the stigma around it.Fortunatly i had a good team around me who got me the help i desperately needed after i hid from it for 2 yrs.I never got to the point where i thought I'd end it all, but god i came very very close.Its unfair to say that it's the Cowards way out.It seems like the only option to waking up to yet another day of mental torture.The constant feeling of anxiety and other emotions are hard to handle all day every day.I also believe that you never really recover and that you will always be in recovery.Its more about managing you life and emotions. Most importantly though it's about coming forward and talking about it.Dont be afraid to talk, my mistake was I bottled it up for almost 2 years. My wife didn't even know,she just thought I didnt love her anymore.When I went into therapy I nearly walked out but stuck with it for the full 12 weeks.I now know  how to manage my mental health and now i can open up to anybody.Im no longer ashamed of my ilness becausec know I can beat it. Yes I have bad days but I can bring myself round 

 I remember the turning point when I went  back into work (was terrified to face my team). I just found myself opening up (this is where the therapy helped) I told them everything. They were so understanding, I should of opened up sooner.I remember one of the girls just giving me a big hug, its surprising how good a hug makes you feel.

I took medication for 3 years but decided after consulting my GP to come off.I really was not sure if I was genuinely feeling better or I was reliant on the medication for my mood.

 If you think you  have a friend or family member that's suffering just ask them if they fancy a chat.Honestly its the best medication out there!

 

Davyo, much of what you say in this post I can relate to. I'm 8 weeks into CBT and I feel more positive than I have done in years. I'd got to the point where I wasn't talking to anyone, including my wife and family. The feeling of isolation is awful, I got to the point where I didn't feel anything. I get private healthcare via work and though their mental health cover I saw a therapist within 48hrs of the initial psychological assessments.

One reason I didn't do anything for so long was worrying about my SGC and what flags have been put on my medical records. My renewal is due in May and I'm completing the paperwork at the moment. I'm hopeful it won't adversely affect my renewal. 

I agree that you don't fully recover, for me it's a case of using the techniques CBT has taught me and staying vigilant for the signs and triggers and taking care of myself. 

Im talking again and I find myself opening up to people that I never would have in the past. Talking definitely is the best medicine. 

All the best. 

[Scully]

4 hours ago, panoma1 said:

No it doesn’t! The original posting had nothing to do with mental health or people’s opinion on it!.....My posting was not about suffering in life, or about people dying prematurely through terminal illness...it was about the selfishness of suicide and the effect it has on the loved ones left to mourn.

Selfishness doesn’t come into it, as unfortunately, for anyone in such a desperate place, neither does rational thought. 
In such times people are living in their heads and are more than likely to be totally unattached to reality. To live with a mind which is tormenting you is a nightmarish place to be, as there is nowhere else to go, nowhere to hide nor escape to; very often not even in your sleep. Many people in such places turn to alcohol to anaesthetise themselves and  avoid dreaming.
There is no reprieve nor respite without the proper help. 
Anyone affected like this is in a hellish place and worthy of our sympathy. It’s not a place anyone would choose to live in, and the fact that some regard suicide as a better option just reinforces this. 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

who the hell do you people think you are to lecture me when i never had the luxury of a break down because i had children to think of you give out to people when you have no idea of the death or mind raping life they endured how dare you decide what view or opinion people should hold you wouldn’t last ten secs leading my life so thank you for waking the memories that give me my edge 

I genuinely think you need to seek some form of therapy. This burning resentment you have for some unfortunate event you have experienced is eating you up.

You aren’t the only person who has been wronged; talk to someone about it, seriously. 
Also, ( and this isn’t sarcasm or yet another person having a dig ) your posts come across as garbled and anxious; punctuation makes it easier for everyone to read. 

[panoma1]

OK so you reckon it’s not selfish to commit suicide and leave your family and friends to suffer the pain of bereavement!.......forget why, because that’s another issue, but who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain? consciously or unconsciously it’s still a selfish act.

[Sian]

7 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

OK so you reckon it’s not selfish to commit suicide and leave your family and friends to suffer the pain of bereavement!.......forget why, because that’s another issue, but who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain? consciously or unconsciously it’s still a selfish act.

Not when you’ve convinced yourself that those you love are better off without you.   There is no rational thinking when you’ve got yourself to that point.  It is absolutely heartbreaking for those left behind I agree but maybe if they had one moment in the mind of that individual and felt as they did it would be easier to understand.  Just my opinion 

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

OK so you reckon it’s not selfish to commit suicide and leave your family and friends to suffer the pain of bereavement!.......forget why, because that’s another issue, but who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain? consciously or unconsciously it’s still a selfish act.

Again, you're viewing it from the point of view of one who can be rational, when rational thought isn't involved. People with mental health problems do all manner of things they wouldn't normally consider when their minds are in turmoil. Suicide is not a rational idea. 

[panoma1]

I’ll ask again.......who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain?

[Sian]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I’ll ask again.......who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain?

Yes you have a point  but they also often consider they are doing others a favour.  I don’t think it can really be seen in black and white terms.

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I’ll ask again.......who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain?

I didn't know anyone had denied she was doing it to end her own pain. If you consider that a selfish act then no one can convince you otherwise, but I can reassure you selfishness doesn't come into suicide. Like I said it's not a rational notion; they just see it as a way to stop the anguish and torment. Like I've said, living in your head is a lonely cruel place to be, when your mind isn't your friend. 

[Retsdon]

Sometimes negative thoughts are better left unspoken. Just saying......

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I genuinely think you need to seek some form of therapy. This burning resentment you have for some unfortunate event you have experienced is eating you up.

You aren’t the only person who has been wronged; talk to someone about it, seriously. 
Also, ( and this isn’t sarcasm or yet another person having a dig ) your posts come across as garbled and anxious; punctuation makes it easier for everyone to read. 

your comment is exactly what i mean scully you did not know i had to work to support my sick father so i missed out on english so i won’t hold it against you as for the rest life is most enjoyable i bear no grudge with anyone my only gripe is the self righteous trying to tell me what to think and do i have the likes of slackman for that i don’t need it from my own side thanks 

[pork chop]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

OK so you reckon it’s not selfish to commit suicide and leave your family and friends to suffer the pain of bereavement!.......forget why, because that’s another issue, but who is the person who commits suicide doing it for, If not in order to end their own pain? consciously or unconsciously it’s still a selfish act.

Have you any experience to base your view on 

[panoma1]

15 minutes ago, pork chop said:

Have you any experience to base your view on 

Death yes! Suicide? No!.......But I have an opinion which I have expressed...and no one has yet satisfactorily answered the question as to who’s pain does someone’s suicide end....except for the one committing suicide?
And who suffers pain as a result of someone’s suicide?.......it ain’t the one committing suicide is it!......It’s the family, friends!

Is that not the definition of selfishness? It certainly isn’t the definition of a selfless act!

[chrisjpainter]

9 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Death yes! Suicide? No!.......But I have an opinion which I have expressed...and no one has yet satisfactorily answered the question as to who’s pain does someone’s suicide end....except for the one committing suicide?
And who suffers pain as a result of someone’s suicide?.......it ain’t the one committing suicide is it!......It’s the family, friends!

Is that not the definition of selfishness? It certainly isn’t the definition of a selfless act!

It is possible to be neither selfless nor selfish. For many suicide is not expected from the family and friends. And what is never possible is for the family and friends to truly be inside the head and thus inside the suffering of the individual. so many questions are left unanswered, so many times, to them, they may feel the person missed an opportunity to talk that could have saved them. There's anger, and pain and a feeling of utter helplessness, but never the full possession of the facts - how can they? I can see why you read it as selfishness, but what of the other side of selfishness?

let's imagine for one brief moment they could fully experience the pain, utter emptiness and pure bereftness of someone who wants to take their own life. do they really have the right to say, 'no. you must go on  suffering. you must bear it day in, day out. you must face that horror every waking moment of your life, because we'd miss you. How can anyone realistically expect to inflict that upon someone and not equally be accused of selfishness? And it's worth remembering that there are thousands who go through treatment. They go through medication - endless brands, types, doses, all to be played with or given as a cocktail - and counselling, CBT, psychotherapy, GBT, psychoanalysis etc. All witnessed by friends and family, who can see none of it working - and through no fault of the sufferer. Sometimes the demons are just too strong, too deep set. Can it really be fair for the family to insist that the person go on under such intolerable circumstances? If we're to bring selfishness into it, then surely there's a case to answer in that?

The better course of action is to remove the concept entirely. It simply makes the hell on both sides ever more apparent. It never helps with the healing process that can come. This is going to be horribly raw for some people on here and my heart goes out to them. My suspicion is that there will be others who simply haven't said anything - given the statistics on suicide and in particular male suicide, it'd be a shock if that wasn't the case.

Very little helps those going through the chaos and bewilderment after a loved one's suicide. But talking about selfishness leads to talk about blame, anger, and guilt, which is only going to entrench the damage and narrow the window for moving on.

[panoma1]

36 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

It is possible to be neither selfless nor selfish. For many suicide is not expected from the family and friends. And what is never possible is for the family and friends to truly be inside the head and thus inside the suffering of the individual. so many questions are left unanswered, so many times, to them, they may feel the person missed an opportunity to talk that could have saved them. There's anger, and pain and a feeling of utter helplessness, but never the full possession of the facts - how can they? I can see why you read it as selfishness, but what of the other side of selfishness?

let's imagine for one brief moment they could fully experience the pain, utter emptiness and pure bereftness of someone who wants to take their own life. do they really have the right to say, 'no. you must go on  suffering. you must bear it day in, day out. you must face that horror every waking moment of your life, because we'd miss you. How can anyone realistically expect to inflict that upon someone and not equally be accused of selfishness? And it's worth remembering that there are thousands who go through treatment. They go through medication - endless brands, types, doses, all to be played with or given as a cocktail - and counselling, CBT, psychotherapy, GBT, psychoanalysis etc. All witnessed by friends and family, who can see none of it working - and through no fault of the sufferer. Sometimes the demons are just too strong, too deep set. Can it really be fair for the family to insist that the person go on under such intolerable circumstances? If we're to bring selfishness into it, then surely there's a case to answer in that?

The better course of action is to remove the concept entirely. It simply makes the hell on both sides ever more apparent. It never helps with the healing process that can come. This is going to be horribly raw for some people on here and my heart goes out to them. My suspicion is that there will be others who simply haven't said anything - given the statistics on suicide and in particular male suicide, it'd be a shock if that wasn't the case.

Very little helps those going through the chaos and bewilderment after a loved one's suicide. But talking about selfishness leads to talk about blame, anger, and guilt, which is only going to entrench the damage and narrow the window for moving on.

I believe any caring persons motives would be selfless in trying to stop another committing suicide......but under certain circumstances, such as the one you describe, stopping them may also be seen as doing it for somewhat “selfish reasons”, but I believe for most people who tell others they are going to kill themselves, it is a desperate cry for help, and they have little intention of actually going through with it? Hopefully this will result in those people get the help, from family friends and the professionals, they are crying out for! Those that really intend to commit suicide, don’t warn people, they just do it regardless of the pain it will cause to family and friends!....that, I am of the opinion, can only be described as selfish!

Edited February 16, 2020 by panoma1

[pork chop]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

Death yes! Suicide? No!.......But I have an opinion which I have expressed...and no one has yet satisfactorily answered the question as to who’s pain does someone’s suicide end....except for the one committing suicide?
And who suffers pain as a result of someone’s suicide?.......it ain’t the one committing suicide is it!......It’s the family, friends!

Is that not the definition of selfishness? It certainly isn’t the definition of a selfless act!

Yeh you have a view ,it’s not a selfish act it’s an act of desperation.Many of us have gone through losing someone but to suicide is an whole new ball game