JJsDad Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Clangerman. I see you have borrowed some steel shot cartridges and subsequently bought some ! Has the irony of this escaped you ? You have been leaping up and down lambasting BASC over the phasing out over the next 5 years of single use plastics and lead shot, calling for heads to roll and refusing to pay your subs etc. Yet here we are only a matter of weeks down stream and you have borrowed and bought some steel shot cartridges. You are one of the first I have seen on this forum who has wholeheartedly taken on board the phasing out process. Good for you, evidently the scales have been lifted from your eyes and you are in agreement with the press release by BASC. Most people seem to be sitting back, continuing to use lead and watching with interest what developes. I bought a 1000 paper cased, fibre wad game cartridges last summer and have only used a 100 or so. So will have to continue to use these up for a while yet before splashing out on steel. However, with at least 5 years to go before the chance of any goverment legislation I should have fired them off by then. As you an early convert to steel for pigeon shooting, we await your conclusions as to its effectiveness with interest. Edited March 18, 2020 by JJsDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Add to this some excellent guidance on this very forum from those who have been using steel for a while here: https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/forum/26-bullets-cartridges-and-reloading/ that will certainly help you select the right cartridge for what you are doing and give you some tips on range, patterning etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, JJsDad said: Has the irony of your comment escaped you ? You have been leaping up and down lambasting BASC over the phasing out over the next 5 years of single use plastics and lead shot, calling for heads to roll and refusing to pay your subs etc. Yet here we are only a matter of weeks down stream and you have borrowed and bought some steel shot cartridges. You are one of the first I have seen on this forum who has wholeheartedly taken on board the phasing out process. Good for you, evidently the scales have been lifted from your eyes and you are in agreement with the press release by BASC. Most people seem to be sitting back, continuing to use lead and watching with interest what developes. I bought a 1000 paper cased, fibre wad game cartridges last summer and have only used a 100 or so. So will have to continue to use these up for a while yet before splashing out on steel. However, with at least 5 years to go before the chance of any goverment legislation I should have fired them off by then. As you an early convert to steel for pigeon shooting, we await your conclusions as to its effectiveness with interest. Don’t think it was ‘scully’ that posted the comment to which you responded above JJsDad? It was clangerman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: Don’t think it was ‘scully’ that posted the comment to which you responded above JJsDad? Thanks panoma; you are perfectly correct. Scully copied the sentence and I in turn copied from him. Scully, apologies. My post incorrecty named you. The quote should have been attributed to Clangerman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 I fail to see why some seem to be so driven to hold on to Lead. If BASC could not defend it last year, despite a sterling effort. events in Europe now ECHA are generating more problems. The Proposed move away from Lead, is a a shrewd move on the ORGS part IMO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I fail to see why some seem to be so driven to hold on to Lead. If BASC could not defend it last year, despite a sterling effort. events in Europe now ECHA are generating more problems. The Proposed move away from Lead, is a a shrewd move on the ORGS part IMO.. because they dont reload, BASC have said one reason for no lead was because of the sale of game to the EU,have you recently heard any others calling for the forthcoming ban on lead or just the shooting orgs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 4 hours ago, David BASC said: There are already a wide range of cartridges available in non lead in 12 and 20 bore There are not, just look a Just Cartridges, two in 20 bores, and possibly only 5 or 6 that I can use in my 12 bores once I’ve spent several thousandshaving them made suitable for lead and only two I think with fibre wads in 12 and NONE in 20 not vast I think you’ll agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, andrewluke said: because they dont reload, BASC have said one reason for no lead was because of the sale of game to the EU,have you recently heard any others calling for the forthcoming ban on lead or just the shooting orgs?? There is a lot going on in europe . Time will tell how it unfolds. But re reloading. its not essential. Plenty of factory ammo more than capable, even crappy super steel gets it done. Ok we got a wad issue , but anyone can comply with at least the non lead aspect right here and now. Fulfil the full criteria when they want to or when fibre wad steel becomes more available. Criticism of non lead shot just does not stack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, lancer425 said: . Plenty of factory ammo more than capable, even crappy super steel gets it done. Ok we got a wad issue , but anyone can comply with at least the non lead aspect right here and now. Fulfil the full criteria when they want to or when fibre wad steel becomes more available. Criticism of non lead shot just does not stack up. That’s a **** poor argument. Most decent game shoots ban plastic wads, and most folks get the reason why. Your suggestion removes a perceived issue and replaces it with a tangible one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 hours ago, JJsDad said: Clangerman. I see you have borrowed some steel shot cartridges and subsequently bought some ! Has the irony of this escaped you ? You have been leaping up and down lambasting BASC over the phasing out over the next 5 years of single use plastics and lead shot, calling for heads to roll and refusing to pay your subs etc. Yet here we are only a matter of weeks down stream and you have borrowed and bought some steel shot cartridges. You are one of the first I have seen on this forum who has wholeheartedly taken on board the phasing out process. Good for you, evidently the scales have been lifted from your eyes and you are in agreement with the press release by BASC. Most people seem to be sitting back, continuing to use lead and watching with interest what developes. I bought a 1000 paper cased, fibre wad game cartridges last summer and have only used a 100 or so. So will have to continue to use these up for a while yet before splashing out on steel. However, with at least 5 years to go before the chance of any goverment legislation I should have fired them off by then. As you an early convert to steel for pigeon shooting, we await your conclusions as to its effectiveness with interest. i’m not using it by choice this has been forced on me by basc making us jump before we are pushed that’s one of the reasons I don’t like them stick to affecting your members sport not mine thankfully took lead this morning much happier using it but the steel switch is on so not for long unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: That’s a **** poor argument. Most decent game shoots ban plastic wads, and most folks get the reason why. Your suggestion removes a perceived issue and replaces it with a tangible one. 11 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: That’s a **** poor argument. Most decent game shoots ban plastic wads, and most folks get the reason why. Your suggestion removes a perceived issue and replaces it with a tangible one. I understand where your coming from, but that’s my attitude to it at this stage. If you have livestock around etc ok use lead most will be doing until fibre steel shows up. Shooting star are suposed to be getting some Jokers in this next week he told my mate other day. This virus might steady things i supose but hey ho. Fact is right now in areas they can practically use plaswdsds, suitable capable loads for pigeon and game do exist. But if needing fibre just keep going with lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, lancer425 said: There is a lot going on in europe . Time will tell how it unfolds. But re reloading. its not essential. Plenty of factory ammo more than capable, even crappy super steel gets it done. Ok we got a wad issue , but anyone can comply with at least the non lead aspect right here and now. Fulfil the full criteria when they want to or when fibre wad steel becomes more available. Criticism of non lead shot just does not stack up. how can they be "crappy" and get the job done, it's one or the other??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 17/03/2020 at 08:15, GingerCat said: I've yet to see a single advert from any organisation promoting game meat outside of a shooting mag or internet page dedicated to shooters. Not one. Ever. Same goes for the benefits of game management for conservation. It's always preaching to the choir. Given the current potential food crisis, would it not be a good time to explain how such things as pigeon/rabbit shooting provided a healthy, free range alternative to farmed meats that benefit the environment? A celeb chef or 2 cooking it on tv? Perhaps help to game shoots so that the meat is introduced into the food chain at an affordable price and increase the wider public appreciation of it outside of the odd butcher or country restaurant. And not just a glossy ad in a basc magazine that does little. BASC should be promoting game meat far more than they do. It should be part of most families' diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, andrewluke said: how can they be "crappy" and get the job done, it's one or the other??? Compared to others they are crapy but they work well and you can get them almost anywhere and why i suggest them so often . I dont like hamebore ammo. but i will say this. the Mamoth and rhino steel shot loads in 3 unch 3.5 inch and ten bore work well enough, many use them and are completely sattisfied with them. Who am i to disagree. I would go for RC atomic or NSI before i would byt a mamoth 3 inch oe 32 gram sypper steel . but YOMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: That’s a **** poor argument. Most decent game shoots ban plastic wads, and most folks get the reason why. Your suggestion removes a perceived issue and replaces it with a tangible one. Lancer does tend to look at this from a purely wildfowling/reloading angle, only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Compared to others they are crapy but they work well and you can get them almost anywhere and why i suggest them so often . I dont like hamebore ammo. but i will say this. the Mamoth and rhino steel shot loads in 3 unch 3.5 inch and ten bore work well enough, many use them and are completely sattisfied with them. Who am i to disagree. I would go for RC atomic or NSI before i would byt a mamoth 3 inch oe 32 gram sypper steel . but YOMV. what you say doesn't make sense,either they do the job or they dont,what are the "others"? these are your opinions not facts when you say these are better than those etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 22 hours ago, clangerman said: don’t sweat it mate if people want to wait until the day basc says its all over and walks of with the money that’s fine by me pigeon shooting will survive it’s needed You are deluded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, motty said: BASC should be promoting game meat far more than they do. It should be part of most families' diets. i dont eat game because i dont like the taste but what i shoot i give away and most of the time i end up having to gut/clean the game,the people(sister in law mainly) i give it to think they are Lords/Ladies/posh when it comes to bbq's because they can give food which their friends cant get hold of(as it's food for upper class only😁) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, motty said: You are deluded! thank you rather you went with mistaken but let’s hope i’m correct so we at least end up with some form of sport 1 minute ago, andrewluke said: i dont eat game because i dont like the taste but what i shoot i give away and most of the time i end up having to gut/clean the game,the people(sister in law mainly) i give it to think they are Lords/Ladies/posh when it comes to bbq's because they can give food which their friends cant get hold of(as it's food for upper class only😁) i can’t give the stuff away the entire local estate know it’s theirs for the asking they won’t touch it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Quote Accept that some are not happy but for those that are complaining have you read and understood the threats coming from Europe? That'll be the Europe or rather EU that we've just left will it? Which is there is a "no deal" may or may not accept ANY game regardless of what it is shot with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 24 minutes ago, Penelope said: Lancer does tend to look at this from a purely wildfowling/reloading angle, only. Agree i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, andrewluke said: these are your opinions not facts when you say these are better than those etc! They are facts all right, go buy a box of hull steel 32 or lyalvale hunting steel 32 them compare them to the afore said super steels 32s , then report back and tell us. that the super steels did not perform better. All will work up to a point, but overall I would have my money on the super steels. But your right its my opinion, and you probably wont want to agree with that anyway. Edited March 18, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Neither of the main anti lead protagonists has commented on my last post. Now, I have to admit that for the passed 16 months or so I have been somewhat distracted for a couple of reasons. I was up there with the "no science, no change" state of play, but could then later see and appreciate the ECHA/ game export situation. However, what have I missed since then that a proven update in the science that has meant that there is now evidence which reflects that in the UK there is an absolute need to prohibit (I know there's not at the moment but we can be certain that what we do have will be a precursor to such) the use of lead shot totally across the board. I shoot only vermin on land where there is no standing or flowing water, there are no migratory bird species and nothing I shoot goes into the human food chain market place. What/where is the science that now renders the use of NTS in these circumstances essential? An answer to either of these points from those mentioned at the start would be greatly appreciated. I don't believe for one minute that I'm the only guy who shoots what and on a similar location to that as I've described so a valid answer would help greatly in our understanding of the need to change. One term which I can't use here has been part of my life for 30 years in HMFs so I recognise it when I hear it and therefore, 'flannel' is not acceptable as a valid answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, wymberley said: What/where is the science that now renders the use of lead in these circumstances essential? Read you post twice .... can you check that's really what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, clangerman said: i’m not using it by choice this has been forced on me by basc making us jump before we are pushed that’s one of the reasons I don’t like them stick to affecting your members sport not mine thankfully took lead this morning much happier using it but the steel switch is on so not for long unfortunately But you DID use it by choice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.