grrclark Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 I don’t know John, been a while since I did any work in the airline sector. You may be right that the debt loading on VA might preclude lending by a bank or it might be they are unable to syndicate lending amongst multiple banks or just that the sector is a bit toxic, especially given the growth of the likes of Extinction Rebellion. BA have benefitted massively from the state over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Mice! said: but plenty of people would probably still fly next week if they could to go on holiday. Me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, grrclark said: or just that the sector is a bit toxic, especially given the growth of the likes of Extinction Rebellion. That is certainly true - and may be the reason. In addition, I think quite a lot of businesses who haven't traditionally used video conferencing have now 'discovered it' and found it is cheap and works quite well. I think that this present 'crisis' will be a bit of a watershed in many ways - and some things, which would include aviation may not have an easy time afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 18 hours ago, SO3isme said: Boeing were already up sh1* creek. Yes they will hopefully stop the production of that death trap that they were making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 13 hours ago, AVB said: Who in their right mind would want to holiday in the UK! It's overpriced, service is ****, people are generally ungrateful and weather is normally pants as well. Happy to see fewer cheap flights around though, especially if it stops the great unwashed from travelling and cluttering up decent places abroad. Nothing worse than arriving at an airport and seeing a flight from Liverpool or Manchester arrive! In fact close regional airports south of East Midlands, and leave one in Scotland. Actually close Luton and Stansted as well as they only survive on low cost airlines. 😂 Nothing beats England on a sunny summers day all you get abroad is to hot to go out in and its full of foreigners 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 hours ago, The Heron said: Nothing beats England on a sunny summers day all you get abroad is to hot to go out in and its full of foreigners 😂 How often do you get a ‘nice’ sunny day though in the UK? When it is hot it gets too hot and humid and with lack of A/C around gets stifling. That said, this April was nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, AVB said: How often do you get a ‘nice’ sunny day though in the UK? When it is hot it gets too hot and humid and with lack of A/C around gets stifling. That said, this April was nice. Absolutely love May best month of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Heron said: Absolutely love May best month of the year. But we need the summer to be nice - July and August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 The time up to the summer equinox is my medicine for those short days and long nights in Jan & Feb - this time of year I can sustain five hours sleep and up to sixteen hours of work a day without too much stress - love it 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Profit from life as my French friend would say, up when the sun comes up and get on with the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 4 hours ago, AVB said: How often do you get a ‘nice’ sunny day though in the UK? When it is hot it gets too hot and humid and with lack of A/C around gets stifling. That said, this April was nice. One of the best holidays we had was a wet week in Wales, did loads we wouldn't have done had we been in the sun in Spain, I won't miss the Airport at all this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 I am very worried about this crisis in the airline industry. One of them pays my pension... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Grandalf said: I am very worried about this crisis in the airline industry. One of them pays my pension... Wont be much consolation to you, but you will be in plenty of company. I can see all our pensions being effected massively by all this, how can it do any other its bound to have an effect if not take some out completely. If people do a rush on funds drawing, it will be terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaylor91 Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 58 minutes ago, Grandalf said: I am very worried about this crisis in the airline industry. One of them pays my pension... One of them pays my salary however not one of the companies mentioned on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 Warren Buffet / Berkshire Hathaway have sold all aviation investments. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52518186 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, wyn said: Warren Buffet / Berkshire Hathaway have sold all aviation investments. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52518186 I just wonder who might have bought his investments in these tricky times for the aviation industry? Edited May 3, 2020 by JDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 I think on the news it said he sold at a loss, so must be in a hurry to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 The financial world is walking away from the airlines as fast as it can without making it any more obvious than it has to. The feeling is at least 50% will go bust (or are already) and volumes will take years to recover. Cheap holiday flights and package holidays will not be around when the lockdown lifts. Think of the financial impact on many of the destinations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: The financial world is walking away from the airlines as fast as it can without making it any more obvious than it has to. The feeling is at least 50% will go bust (or are already) and volumes will take years to recover. Cheap holiday flights and package holidays will not be around when the lockdown lifts. Think of the financial impact on many of the destinations It certainly looks like the aviation bubble has burst. And as you suggest the knock on effect will be massive, I can think of several places I've visited in the recent past which, as a city / town / community, are facing an existential threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It certainly looks like the aviation bubble has burst. In a number of respects, it has been on 'borrowed time' in recent years. The various threats over the years from terrorism, hijacking etc. which have been mainly quite well contained have been joined by the 'eco warriors' who have used different disruptive tactics (drones (allegedly), blocking ground traffic etc.) for different reasons that have had at least (some) public sympathy. This despite some so called 'celebs' apparently flying 1st class across the Atlantic to join protests against flying! The massive rate of growth could not be sustained much longer. 50 years ago - when I was young, only the 'wealthy' and those (usually only senior staff) travelling on business were able to fly, and 'foreign' holidays were for most who could afford them a 'once a year' special event. Now quite large numbers of people fly several times a year for family holidays, skiing trips, weekend breaks, stag/hen parties etc. Apart from the 'carbon' implications, this huge and rapid number of people movements has always been a 'risk' for spreading infections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 Agreed. I think it's an opportunity for growth in the executive / small aircraft aviation sector. There will also be massive focus on innovation around high speed personal transportation system but it's difficult to see how the economics of that can work, who knows. So yes, a reset which potential for growth over time in the commercial sector - interesting one to watch, terrible one to be living through with your livelihood and pension at stake 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaylor91 Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 I think it’s going to go either way on the holidays front. It may be that after all this is over people will want that holiday they have missed out on. From what I have heard 2021 holiday bookings are looking strong already. Business travel especially regional (FlyBe) I would say has now gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It certainly looks like the aviation bubble has burst. And as you suggest the knock on effect will be massive, I can think of several places I've visited in the recent past which, as a city / town / community, are facing an existential threat. Yes just think of Florida, you don't have to look any further than that. Now this is in the category of strange but true, a message on facebook today from a couple we have known for years but rarely see. They are flying off today on holiday to Turkey. I couldn't believe it when I saw it this morning. There message was along the lines "can't stand it anymore, off to the sun and freedom" and NO they are not joking. I know exactly where they are going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Yes just think of Florida, you don't have to look any further than that. Now this is in the category of strange but true, a message on facebook today from a couple we have known for years but rarely see. They are flying off today on holiday to Turkey. I couldn't believe it when I saw it this morning. There message was along the lines "can't stand it anymore, off to the sun and freedom" and NO they are not joking. I know exactly where they are going Have they grown wings? I'm amazed there is a flight out and back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, JTaylor91 said: I think it’s going to go either way on the holidays front. It may be that after all this is over people will want that holiday they have missed out on. From what I have heard 2021 holiday bookings are looking strong already. Business travel especially regional (FlyBe) I would say has now gone. Flybe was great, I could fly up from Cornwall to London in 55 mins and it wasn't expensive. The planes were never more than half full though and I could never understand why but I think it was because they offered a hand luggage only deal. If you wanted to take anything more they crucified you on price. 4 minutes ago, Mice! said: Have they grown wings? I'm amazed there is a flight out and back? I was amazed too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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