2021 England General Licences made public in November

[Conor O'Gorman]

Following correspondence with Defra, BASC has received assurances that next year’s general licences for England will be drafted by October and made public in November prior to being enacted on 1 January 2021.

Defra has completed its analysis of its review and is currently consulting with Natural England before sharing its proposals with stakeholders.

BASC will be working hard to ensure the licences are fit for purpose and future-proof. There is still concern that unnecessary red tape surrounding protected sites (for example SSSIs) will limit the ability of general licences to work efficiently.

The general licence system was introduced to allow the control of legally-protected species with limited regulatory burden. BASC, along with other countryside organisations, will continue to fight for this ability to ensure wildlife management can take place where necessary.

See: https://basc.org.uk/general-licences-england-update/

[WalkedUp]

👍

[rapid .25]

Fingers and everything else crossed, let's hope they can get it right between them this time without confusing everyone 🙏🙏🙏

[wymberley]

I do hope that the link provided by Mr O'Gorman is not another 'own goal'. The people to whom the letter is aimed are the very people who have always provided the "jobs for the boys" and they are not going to like it 'up'em' and in which case that puts us to a disadvantage from the off.

[Conor O'Gorman]

Defra has published the general licences for the shooting and trapping of pest birds that come into effect on 1 January 2021.

Conservation general licence GL40
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-kill-or-take-for-conservation-purposes-gl34/valid-from-1-january-2021-general-licence-gl40-to-take-or-kill-certain-species-of-wild-birds-to-conserve-endangered-wild-birds-or-flora-and-fauna
 
Public health and safety general licence GL41
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-kill-or-take-for-public-health-or-safety-gl35/valid-from-1-january-2021-general-licence-gl41-to-kill-or-take-certain-species-of-wild-birds-to-preserve-public-health-or-public-safety
 
Serious damage general licence GL42
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-kill-or-take-to-prevent-serious-damage-gl36/general-licence-gl42-to-kill-or-take-certain-species-of-wild-birds-to-prevent-serious-damage

[Centrepin]

Thank you, it's took near on 20 mins to speed read and unless I'm mistaken not much has changed?

[Novice]

Plenty has changed. 

Rook and jackdaw off the protection of wild birds licence completely. 

The protection of wild birds licence now specifically protection of endangered wild birds. 

From Jan next year, you couldn't kill a carrion crow to protect a red grouse or wild pheasant nest. 

 

And the above are just for starters. I'd say these new licences are worse than the existing licences, which is saying something.

I'm sure plenty of people on here who are mainly interested in shooting wood pigeons or corvids over arable land will think this has all moved on and be happy with their lot. But I'd ask them to look at the bigger picture here and see these new general licenses as a result of the attack against all of us in the fieldsports community by Wild Justice. They'll see this as a win and continue to come after other aspects of our interests and way of life. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC responds to publication of new General Licences

BASC is advising members that Defra has today published three new general licences for the shooting and trapping of certain birds.

The new general licences, which come into effect on 1 January 2021, provide the legal basis for the control of certain birds such as crows and woodpigeon for reasons such as conservation, protecting public health and safety and to prevent damage to crops and livestock.

The publication of the new licences follows lobbying of ministers and MPs by BASC after the current system of licensing became subject to legal challenge in the Spring of 2019.

The new general licences allow for control on protected areas and Defra has advised that they will publish further information on this before the licences come into effect.

All the birds within the current licences remain in at least one or more of the new general licences. It will be essential that users comply fully with the terms and conditions and that the licence is applicable to the circumstances within which they are shooting.

The new general licences are the result of an 18-month Defra led process, which BASC fed into, and a review of the scientific evidence.

Glynn Evans, BASC head of game and gundogs, said: “On first analysis, it’s clear that Defra has tried to produce general licences that are watertight and will bear the scrutiny of a legal challenge.

“However, the terms and conditions are more complex than the current versions they replace and where necessary BASC will continue to make representation to Defra and produce guidance and advice to help people interpret them.”

The new licences are as follows:

Conservation general licence GL40

Public health and safety general licence GL41

Serious damage general licence GL42

The general licences published today in advance of them coming into force in the New Year clearly show the format of the licences and set out key conditions. The detail of two conditions (for trapping and protected sites) will follow and will be reflected in the final published versions of the licences later in the year.

 

See:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-respond-to-publication-of-new-general-licences/

 

[Centrepin]

2 hours ago, Novice said:

Plenty has changed. 

Rook and jackdaw off the protection of wild birds licence completely. 

The protection of wild birds licence now specifically protection of endangered wild birds. 

From Jan next year, you couldn't kill a carrion crow to protect a red grouse or wild pheasant nest. 

 

And the above are just for starters. I'd say these new licences are worse than the existing licences, which is saying something.

I'm sure plenty of people on here who are mainly interested in shooting wood pigeons or corvids over arable land will think this has all moved on and be happy with their lot. But I'd ask them to look at the bigger picture here and see these new general licenses as a result of the attack against all of us in the fieldsports community by Wild Justice. They'll see this as a win and continue to come after other aspects of our interests and way of life. 

I don't see it:

Jackdaw and Rook are covered by birds nesting and direct attack.

Maybe I'm interpreting it differant.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Centrepin

[Shotkam]

I would suggest that 'all round' shooters will be relieved that they can legally shoot Crows, Pigeons, Rooks and Jackdaws to prevent damage to Farmer's crops.

However on the other hand, their other shooting - Game Shoots and Rough Shoots that carry out keepering to protect nesting gamebirds, eggs and fledgelings will be dismayed that you cannot legally protect the above from Crows, Jackdaws, Magpies and Jays - basically a disaster !!! 😬

[NatureBoy]

1 hour ago, Novice said:

Plenty has changed. 

Rook and jackdaw off the protection of wild birds licence completely. 

The protection of wild birds licence now specifically protection of endangered wild birds. 

From Jan next year, you couldn't kill a carrion crow to protect a red grouse or wild pheasant nest. 

 

And the above are just for starters. I'd say these new licences are worse than the existing licences, which is saying something.

I'm sure plenty of people on here who are mainly interested in shooting wood pigeons or corvids over arable land will think this has all moved on and be happy with their lot. But I'd ask them to look at the bigger picture here and see these new general licenses as a result of the attack against all of us in the fieldsports community by Wild Justice. They'll see this as a win and continue to come after other aspects of our interests and way of life. 

Rook jackdaw AND Jay still on at least one of the 3 GL's. Read ALL! Then read again and comply! Simple's. More complicated but we can work with them. Interesting about non lethal/ non practical and recording your actions. But as they say it Is their ADVISE and RECOMENDATION NOT LAW! Covers us and them. . . Be interesting to see how Dr NO (Avery) and co try and pull it apart. Dummy will be spat on the alter of their ego's. They still gona be having a go at the Welsh GL's in January. . . . . He still banging on about pheasant releases like it a big victory them. Some of the comments his followers say about it that he say's maybe useful  in consultations Just shows his/their lack of knowledge and i hope will be questioned if it is.   Some comments would be funny if they were not serious . . . . Does BASC believe the 57-60 million figure of releases. The figure of 35million (inc ducks) that came out after research the other week seem more realistic? But doesn't seem to of got much publicity.      NB     

[Fellside]

Don’t panic - it’s covered in GL42. Have a look re protection of livestock. Incidentally poults in a pen are livestock.

[Shotkam]

Unfortunately nesting Pheasants and Partridge are not classed as livestock.

[Fellside]

Yes I agree this is a concern..... but of course there will be an endangered species near by....?! Much of the wording is very (very!) open to interpretation - i.e. not very tight. 
 

What I am encouraged by are the various ‘get out clauses’ in GL 42:

 

1. “You’re not required to use alternative, lawful methods under condition 1(a) and 1(b) where the use of such methods would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances.”

 

2. “You do not need to use non-lethal methods of control, or continue to use them if you have tried them, if you consider them to be:

• not practical
• not effective
• disproportionate”

 

3. “on a large farm certain alternative measures are likely to be impractical and too costly to be considered reasonable.”

 

Very helpful....!!

 

They’ve essentially been very prescriptive re non-lethals on one hand - and then gifted us a non compliance clause with the other hand. It would seem that the application of common sense can prevail in larger scale circumstances......which basically means most farms. 

 

[Novice]

25 minutes ago, NatureBoy said:

Rook jackdaw AND Jay still on at least one of the 3 GL's. Read ALL! Then read again and comply! Simple's. More complicated but we can work with them. Interesting about non lethal/ non practical and recording your actions. But as they say it Is their ADVISE and RECOMENDATION NOT LAW! Covers us and them. . . Be interesting to see how Dr NO (Avery) and co try and pull it apart. Dummy will be spat on the alter of their ego's. They still gona be having a go at the Welsh GL's in January. . . . . He still banging on about pheasant releases like it a big victory them. Some of the comments his followers say about it that he say's maybe useful  in consultations Just shows his/their lack of knowledge and i hope will be questioned if it is.   Some comments would be funny if they were not serious . . . . Does BASC believe the 57-60 million figure of releases. The figure of 35million (inc ducks) that came out after research the other week seem more realistic? But doesn't seem to of got much publicity.      NB     

I'm sorry, but how does being able to use lethal control of rooks and jackdaws to prevent damage to crops help in a situation where action is needed to prevent them predating nests? 

Yes, you could apply for an individual licence, but the chances of getting one in the same calendar year are none existent if recent experience of moorland keepers under the current licences are anything to go by. 

As I say, the majority of members on this site will probably be unaffected, but for those seeking to increase wild game numbers, or wildlife in general, through lethal control of corvids, next year's licences are a retrograde step. 

[NatureBoy]

53 minutes ago, Novice said:

I'm sorry, but how does being able to use lethal control of rooks and jackdaws to prevent damage to crops help in a situation where action is needed to prevent them predating nests? 

Yes, you could apply for an individual licence, but the chances of getting one in the same calendar year are none existent if recent experience of moorland keepers under the current licences are anything to go by. 

As I say, the majority of members on this site will probably be unaffected, but for those seeking to increase wild game numbers, or wildlife in general, through lethal control of corvids, next year's licences are a retrograde step. 

Surely if you are doing effective year round pest control at least one of these licences covers you to do targeted pest control on all these species to keep numbers in check in the breeding season? You say wild game. Grey ENGLISH partridges are red listers. You are helping them. As are many resident or migrant farm, woodland and upland birds. Ant that why a lot of us do pest control? It benefits all wildlife not just game birds. As we can/have proved. RSPB knows it works to. That's why they still do it despite pressure from there members or being bullied by celebs and former staff.  . . .Despite pressure and miss information we have some common sense and government bodies that now have more information and real facts thanks to those of us that bothered submitting information and evidence when asked. If you still need individual licence apply. We have significant number of turtle doves and have no problem getting licence to control collard doves ( off list now) if need be as have proved they bully them of territories and feed.  Got wild english every where this year.   NB

[greylag]

Last year I applied to the very inept NRW for a licence to shoot crows near an SSI  which were decimating Lapwing nests and fledglings.The licence required evidence of the damage, photos etc  etc .I was then told it could be six weeks before the licence would or would not be granted.Result no lapwings .At least the English licences have been taken in house by DEFRA and out of the hands on Natural England.Dont knock it,at least you have a general licence for 2021 to work with.

I am dreading the judicial review of the Welsh licences in December.Another payday for WildJustice solicitor's.

 

[rbrowning2]

15 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

Surely if you are doing effective year round pest control at least one of these licences covers you

(now) Their is no such thing as pest birds, just wild birds all protected in law and lethal control only permitted via the General Licences, with justification like, serious damage, definition of serious crop damage?

and yet more from Mark Avery vs BASC.

https://markavery.info/2020/11/10/more-on-the-new-general-licences-for-england/

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by rbrowning2

[Fellside]

Pest is just easier to say - rather than ‘birds protected under schedule 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, exempted by the General Licence agreement’. It also easier to say ‘pest’ if you witness crops being decimated by a        hyper-abundant avian species. So pest it is then. Thanks for the link to Avery’s rant. It was amusing. 

[old'un]

9 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

(now) Their is no such thing as pest birds, just wild birds all protected in law and lethal control only permitted via the General Licences, with justification like, serious damage, definition of serious crop damage?

and yet more from Mark Avery vs BASC.

https://markavery.info/2020/11/10/more-on-the-new-general-licences-for-england/

 

 

The Mark Avery link does not make good reading for shooting, this guy will not be happy until there is a licencing system that will make “pest” control almost impossible.

[Fellside]

Thankfully it’s not entirely up to Avery and co’ as to how shooting shapes up. He would like everyone to believe that his agenda is credible and threatening. However many actually regard him as minority extremist. He has now launched 2 unsuccessful legal attacks, against already hard pressed government departments, during times of national crisis. He hasn’t exactly won many ‘brownie points’ for that. It would appear that fending him off - rather than working with him - is the handling strategy. 
 

The sad Irony is, that if Avery and co’ were to direct as much energy and angst towards a worthy cause, they might make a real difference. For example preventing child poverty or saving rainforest habitat. They would even get my support. 

[NatureBoy]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

The Mark Avery link does not make good reading for shooting, this guy will not be happy until there is a licencing system that will make “pest” control almost impossible.

Have followed his anti antics for several years. The followers he has now bang on/ the same old anti stuff showing what lack of/limited knowledge he and they have about shooting, pest control, species or real conservation. Hoping folk will believe them. It's become even more about class and politics and less about conservation. Some of his commentators used to have valid opinions and good knowledge even if you didn't agree with them and were not all anti. I think he/they loosing followers because of and maybe why Packham seems to of backed off/gone quiet? Some of the other comments on Avery's blog on gamebird releases worth a look to and really shows their lack of knowledge and lies. Like the ones of the bloke killing 200 pheasants in his garden and feeding them to kites and eagles. And Dr NO says he maybe use it as evidance. I hope he does. Chatting to folk that met him once, i asked what they thought of him. They said " sweats a lot, soft hands". Summed up in true Suffolk stylie.😉 What a lasting impression to make. Customers/friends ask if  i wanted to go to one of his talks in Ipswich with them a few years back. I declined laughing. Told them it would be "ME! ME! ME! ME! would you like to buy my book!" I was right and they got me a copy as a joke. . . . I think (and i said at the time) the whole WJ thing was started/launched when it was because they thought Tony Juniper becoming head of Natural England at that time would be there man on the inside and they would be able to use/influence him to achieve there agenda's. He isn't (thankfully) and looked how they have had a go at him since. Friends huh.  . . . Some of the comments the short grumpy gal has on the RPUK site worth a read to. They propr rabid bunch. Don't you think it strange we have had no pics of dead,shot or poisoned raptors lately?  . . . Robin Page still saying Packham's lot tried to infiltrate/undermine CRT in 2017?         NB

[figgy]

How can partridge and pheasant in a pen be livestock, yet out of a pen they're no longer classed as livestock.

So are sheep lambing in a field no longer classed as livestock.

Where does the distinction lie.

 

I think basc need to give some clarification on the new licences before they become into affect.

[Fellside]

Yes, ‘the law is an a**’ as they say Figgy. The classification of penned poults as ‘livestock’ is enshrined in the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981. Once released they are then a wild bird in strict legal terms. 

[rbrowning2]

On 10/11/2020 at 17:13, old'un said:

The Mark Avery link does not make good reading for shooting, this guy will not be happy until there is a licencing system that will make “pest” control almost impossible.

They are against all we do, killing for sport, fun, or pleasure as they put it, simple as that and will use all the legal opportunities they can to pursue that agenda supported by other people’s money.