owain Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: You are still having a laugh or have a very short memory. She has shown she is unfit to lead. She does her own thing. Alex Salmond doesn't seem to rate her. Under investigation for the meeting at her house, letting her mask fall off. There are more. Yes - she's brilliant. Alex salmond 😂😂 I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, old'un said: yes, and did you know that the C-19 vaccine contains a tracking devise. It doesn’t. But that doesn’t stop the police abusing their powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Quote Alex salmond 😂😂 I rest my case. I have no time for Salmond, but she was involved in discussions at her house regarding him, which is under investigation. Did you forget that aspect? Catherine Calderwood? Forget her too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I have no time for Salmond, but she was involved in discussions at her house regarding him, which is under investigation. Did you forget that aspect? Catherine Calderwood? Forget her too? I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Nicola sturgeons political comings and going’s, something you seem to take a great interest in. It just so happens, in my opinion, she has more backbone than bozzo. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: Define democracy? In a democracy we inplicitly all agree to abide by the rules imposed by our elected government. A democracy is not about everybody being able to make up their own rules as they go along Thats anarchy When Parliament passed the Coronavirus Act 2020 it gave the Government emergency powers. So its all perfectly legal and democratic Well said! If anyone feels their rights have been violated they are also free to takw the Government to court. People talking nonsence about their democratic rights being taken away, don't know how good they have it in the U.K. Despite the coronavirus deniers, this pandemic is serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 If people feel they are being dictated to and their freedoms taken away, I guess Boris could just ask nicely for people not to mix, obviously he may need to-be a bit sterner in his tone when it comes to London and Essex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: People talking nonsence about their democratic rights being taken away, don't know how good they have it in the Uk We only have it 'so good' because past generations ensured they resisted this type of tyranny to hand down to us a healthy democracy and rights if the individual. We've just given that all away, and the UK that our children and grandchildren live in will be all the lesser for it. 2 hours ago, AVB said: If the Nazis had invaded in 1940 they would probably have been welcomed with open arms by many. Anyone who has ever wondered "how would I have acted" when thinking about those significant moments in history have got a good barometer based on the last 8 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, treetree said: We only have it 'so good' because past generations ensured they resisted this type of tyranny to hand down to us a healthy democracy and rights if the individual. We've just given that all away, and the UK that our children and grandchildren live in will be all the lesser for it. Given what away? Tell us what exactly? And for what reason? What does Johnson benefit or gain from us being in lockdown? This country is run by legislature, judiciary and the executive. The executive made the Covid laws and the legislature voted it into power. If you feel that if breeches your rights take the executive to court through the judiciary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 44 minutes ago, vpk999 said: Some of the Scottish people voted SNP. A lot of us didn't; were glad to see the back of the EU and will be glad to see the back of Wee Jimmy. As i said same as Brexit a majority is a majority and the SNP won so abide by the rules i got to abide by the rules that our idiot dishes out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: If you feel that if breeches your rights take the executive to court through the judiciary. Already been tried by Simon Dolan, turned down at the Court of Appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Quote I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Nicola sturgeons political comings and going’s, something you seem to take a great interest in. It just so happens, in my opinion, she has more backbone than bozzo. You don't need a lot of knowledge about Krankie. I have little interest in her, other than wishing she would shut up and go away. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts don't appear to support you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Walker570 said: back in 39/40 you got your call up papers and either went or became a conciencious objector. Just think how many of them we would have today. How many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gordon R said: You don't need a lot of knowledge about Krankie. I have little interest in her, other than wishing she would shut up and go away. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts don't appear to support you. You're right, I am entitled to my opinion. And your interpretation of “the facts”, wont change it. cheers 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 if democracy is so wonderful how come i still found the old boy living in his bus shelter on christmas day this so called never had it so good rubbish obviously passed him by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Boris will in 90 minutes most probably announce all the things Sturgeon announced earlier today, all the things Starmer told him to announce days ago and all the things the scientific community told him to announce weeks ago. Views on Sturgeon, Starmer, SAGE or anyone else isn't really relevant to this discussion and even less so Corbyn, Blair, Brown or anyone else you may care to cite. Deep down I strongly suspect that Boris would admit privately that he is really not cut out for the role he finds himself in. I watched him on TV yesterday morning and can remember pretty much word for word what he said about schools, will be interesting how many degrees towards a u-turn he takes in less that 36 hours. Then there is Handcock saying on one hand that there is no evidence that Teachers are getting infected at a higher rate than other professions and on the other that infections are going to rise with the schools open. If they are to keep schools open then they must vaccinate teachers and education staff as they are clearly at the front line of this pandemic along with medical professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Boris will in 90 minutes most probably announce all the things Sturgeon announced earlier today, all the things Starmer told him to announce days ago and all the things the scientific community told him to announce weeks ago. Views on Sturgeon, Starmer, SAGE or anyone else isn't really relevant to this discussion and even less so Corbyn, Blair, Brown or anyone else you may care to cite. Deep down I strongly suspect that Boris would admit privately that he is really not cut out for the role he finds himself in. I watched him on TV yesterday morning and can remember pretty much word for word what he said about schools, will be interesting how many degrees towards a u-turn he takes in less that 36 hours. Then there is Handcock saying on one hand that there is no evidence that Teachers are getting infected at a higher rate than other professions and on the other that infections are going to rise with the schools open. If they are to keep schools open then they must vaccinate teachers and education staff as they are clearly at the front line of this pandemic along with medical professionals. I guessing that Wee Krankie gets advance notice of what Boris is going to say and just says the same thing in advance in order to undermine him. and as for vaccinating teachers then surely they should also do bus drivers (more bus drivers have died than teachers and nurses), supermarket workers, dustbin collectors and anybody else classed as a key worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 I think Boris’ biggest problem is he reluctant to play the part of the tyrant as he genuinely does believe in an individuals freedom. He is trying to be all things to all people; trying to keep this thing under control while interfering with people’s lives as little as possible. I think he has the potential to be a very good PM; he’s only been in the job five minutes and in circumstances no one could predict. I seriously doubt any individual is cut out for the responsibilities our leaders are currently facing. Do I have sympathy for him? No. I have no sympathy for any in politics at all; it is a dirty game and they all wanted it. I think vaccinating educational staff is a good idea; I don’t see the point in giving it to folk who are shielding or locked down before giving it to those who are still out there in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 I agree on the notion of key workers as a priority, it could be construed that the prioritisation of those already shielding could be politically motivated. Those shielding and deemed vulnerable due to age are not likely to be driving the economy but the Conservatives need their votes at the next election, so have to be kept onside. Not suggesting it's the primary motivation but possibly naive not to think it's a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciurus Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 3 hours ago, treetree said: So your government can tell you to do / not do anything? Ummm, yes- although I might not like it or agree with them. Does your government let you do anything you want? 3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: You are either willfully misconstruing the OP's point for rhetorical purposes, or you don't understand how parliamentary democracy works. My idea of a democracy, for what it's worth, is that such draconian measures be subject to parliamentary scrutiny and votes, prior to their enactment, not after. I think Vince Green answers this point very neatly. We live in extraordinary times, the government has made mistakes but is trying to act in the best interest of the population as a whole, which unfortunately has to impact on our rights as individuals not to spread covid unnecessarily. Back to the OP question “Surely in a democracy, no one can be ordered about” The answer has to be yes, otherwise we have anarchy. I agree with his comment “we live in dark times for freedom and individuality “ but would just shorten it to ‘We live in dark times”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 18 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I agree on the notion of key workers as a priority, it could be construed that the prioritisation of those already shielding could be politically motivated. Those shielding and deemed vulnerable due to age are not likely to be driving the economy but the Conservatives need their votes at the next election, so have to be kept onside. Not suggesting it's the primary motivation but possibly naive not to think it's a factor? Indeed. Political expedience above all else; it’s how the game is played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Boris will in 90 minutes most probably announce all the things Sturgeon announced earlier today, all the things Starmer told him to announce days ago and all the things the scientific community told him to announce weeks ago. All of whom dont really have to worry about the bigger picture for the country especially financial implications so its easy for them to back tough restrictions. Conservatives are having to balance deaths, NHS, keeping some sort of economy, saving jobs and trying to stay in power, opposition simply shouts insults and grabs the votes by backing stricter restrictions. Fully agree the whole handling of the pandemic has been politically motivated and not really what's best for the country long or short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, treetree said: Already been tried by Simon Dolan, turned down at the Court of Appeal So it is democratric and done through the proper processes then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 58 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: So it is democratric and done through the proper processes then? If that's what you want to call being denied a full hearing into the most economically devastating and onerous restrictions to personal liberty in recent times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, treetree said: If that's what you want to call being denied a full hearing into the most economically devastating and onerous restrictions to personal liberty in recent times. We’ll all just go out and spread the virus then shall we? I wonder if people complained about their Liberty being restricted during the Blitz? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, treetree said: If that's what you want to call being denied a full hearing into the most economically devastating and onerous restrictions to personal liberty in recent times. Exactly what is this thing you call "personal liberty" that you seem to hold so dear but continually fail to explain to the rest of us? Drop the tired cliches and "left speak" and shock us all with actual examples. All we are getting from you at the moment sounds like something from a recycled speech by Jeremy Corbyn. blah blah blah personal liberty blah blah There is a virus out there that doesn't give a f-f -f about personal liberty, in fact it doesn' a FFF about anything or anybody Edited January 4, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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