Threats against nurses and angry calls in Chesterfield

[chrisjpainter]

Covid-19: Angry calls and threats over Chesterfield FC vaccines - BBC News

Summary: Medical centre's received 'dozens' of angry calls and threats have been made after some at the local football team (staff and players) were vaccinated.

Who in their right minds thinks it's acceptable to make threats towards people for doing their job and giving out vaccines? These were ones that would have otherwise literally been chucked out. It's how I ended up getting vaccinated. Why are people so quick to be angry these days?

RAH. 

[AVB]

11 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Covid-19: Angry calls and threats over Chesterfield FC vaccines - BBC News

Summary: Medical centre's received 'dozens' of angry calls and threats have been made after some at the local football team (staff and players) were vaccinated.

Who in their right minds thinks it's acceptable to make threats towards people for doing their job and giving out vaccines? These were ones that would have otherwise literally been chucked out. It's how I ended up getting vaccinated. Why are people so quick to be angry these days?

RAH. 

Whilst not condoning it the anger is explained by people frustrated at being locked up for so long and seeing what they think as people pulling strings in order to ‘jump the queue’. It does seem weird that it is being claimed that the players who received the jab were classed as ‘vulnerable’. 

[TRINITY]

My son in law is a fireman. A local vaccine centre next door was operating  . One evening they had a small number left after people not turning up etc. Rather than waste them they went to the station and gave the surplus to the crew. This was common sense in my opinion. 

These things happen, but were Chesterfield F C the right people to use up otherwise wasted vaccines is another matter. Were there others like police, ambulance crews firemen etc readily available ? 

[mel b3]

Making threats to nhs staff can never be condoned, but you can understand why folks would be upset that a young fit football team got vaccinated , when theirs still people in more desperate need . In defence of the NHS staff , it was probably just the quickest way to get rid of quite a few jabs without wasting them.

[clangerman]

let’s not have this save wasting them rubbish or excuses employer TOLD my 30yr fully fit daughter NOT mixing with clients to book one but the security guards who accompany EVERY client did not get such a offer or the cleaners so the abuse IS happening 

[Lloyd90]

It is disgusting that a team of professional footballers get the vaccine before others who actually are helping during this pandemic. More cases of the rich and powerful being seen before the poor and needy sadly. 

They could have taken those jabs to the local supermarket and given them to the shelf stackers etc. 

[chrisjpainter]

7 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

It is disgusting that a team of professional footballers get the vaccine before others who actually are helping during this pandemic. More cases of the rich and powerful being seen before the poor and needy sadly. 

They could have taken those jabs to the local supermarket and given them to the shelf stackers etc. 

They have 15 minutes once it's open. You vaccinate whomever you can get in once that window is opened. as the article said, they'd exhausted all other categories first. When the call goes out, we literally have people running in down corridors to get there. They have a sliding scale of importance, but the critical factor is always time. They have to be able to get there for the injection. So do you phone someone who's 70, but lives 15 minutes away, or do you phone a shielding 30 year old who's five minutes away? You're going to phone the one who can get there. That's how they do it. I got mine done because I was in the right place at the right time and those ahead of the immediate queue had already been done. 

 

44 minutes ago, clangerman said:

let’s not have this save wasting them rubbish or excuses employer TOLD my 30yr fully fit daughter NOT mixing with clients to book one but the security guards who accompany EVERY client did not get such a offer or the cleaners so the abuse IS happening 

There's no mechanism to do that yet. You can only book once you've been offered one and they're not available privately, so I don't see how the company could expect her to be able to book one. Which one is she having?

[holloway]

7 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

They have 15 minutes once it's open. You vaccinate whomever you can get in once that window is opened. as the article said, they'd exhausted all other categories first. When the call goes out, we literally have people running in down corridors to get there. They have a sliding scale of importance, but the critical factor is always time. They have to be able to get there for the injection. So do you phone someone who's 70, but lives 15 minutes away, or do you phone a shielding 30 year old who's five minutes away? You're going to phone the one who can get there. That's how they do it. I got mine done because I was in the right place at the right time and those ahead of the immediate queue had already been done. 

 

There's no mechanism to do that yet. You can only book once you've been offered one and they're not available privately, so I don't see how the company could expect her to be able to book one. Which one is she having?

As stated above ,If you could book them yourself there would be a stampede it has to be offered ,a shame to let the facts get in the way of a good story. 

[AVB]

7 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

They have 15 minutes once it's open. You vaccinate whomever you can get in once that window is opened. as the article said, they'd exhausted all other categories first. When the call goes out, we literally have people running in down corridors to get there. They have a sliding scale of importance, but the critical factor is always time. They have to be able to get there for the injection. So do you phone someone who's 70, but lives 15 minutes away, or do you phone a shielding 30 year old who's five minutes away? You're going to phone the one who can get there. That's how they do it. I got mine done because I was in the right place at the right time and those ahead of the immediate queue had already been done. 

 

There's no mechanism to do that yet. You can only book once you've been offered one and they're not available privately, so I don't see how the company could expect her to be able to book one. Which one is she having?

Why not have people ready, on standby, to have the spare jabs, off duty police, supermarket workers, God forbid even teachers, rather than just panicking when you have spares? 
 

The optics of footballers getting vaccinated isn’t good. 

[JohnfromUK]

54 minutes ago, AVB said:

Why not have people ready, on standby, to have the spare jabs

I believe many places do pretty much that, usually NHS/Emergency services staff.  Locally, the council chief and deputy 'just managed' to be 'standing by'.  Details here;

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19066399.covid-vaccine-early-not-wrong---worcestershire-county-council-chief/

[oldypigeonpopper]

11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I believe many places do pretty much that, usually NHS/Emergency services staff.  Locally, the council chief and deputy 'just managed' to be 'standing by'.  Details here;

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19066399.covid-vaccine-early-not-wrong---worcestershire-county-council-chief/

Hello, very typical from such a person with that position just because he can, I dare say it is going on around the UK, Jobs Worth again !!!!, PS just got my letter to book jab, but where ?

Edited February 5, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper

[clangerman]

11 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

They have 15 minutes once it's open. You vaccinate whomever you can get in once that window is opened. as the article said, they'd exhausted all other categories first. When the call goes out, we literally have people running in down corridors to get there. They have a sliding scale of importance, but the critical factor is always time. They have to be able to get there for the injection. So do you phone someone who's 70, but lives 15 minutes away, or do you phone a shielding 30 year old who's five minutes away? You're going to phone the one who can get there. That's how they do it. I got mine done because I was in the right place at the right time and those ahead of the immediate queue had already been done. 

 

There's no mechanism to do that yet. You can only book once you've been offered one and they're not available privately, so I don't see how the company could expect her to be able to book one. Which one is she having?

offered is what i meant to say she had the pizer one at the bri now found with SAME employer her mother in law had one there is NO excuse for people to be having the jab over those in greater need this STINKS 

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

offered is what i meant to say she had the pizer one at the bri now found with SAME employer her mother in law had one there is NO excuse for people to be having the jab over those in greater need this STINKS 

So it's better to waste jabs? Think through the process that has to go on and bear in mind with both jabs, you have a clock ticking, once it's been opened. You have 15 minutes from opened to vaccination.

It's opened. The person for whom it's prepared isn't there/says no/doesn't show up. Your time starts...now

You get on the phone to get it to someone. They need to be less than 15 minutes away - realistically ten minutes by the time you've got hold of them, said can you come, then for them to get their coat, their keys, lock the house get out, (driving? get into the car, drive it over, park, walk in). Perfect scenario. but supposing you don't get through? you have to start the process again, with even less time. 

Sometimes they'll have a little more notice, but even so, that clock's ticking for it to be used. The football club's close. There are groups of people and crucially, they said that those who received it had vulnerabilities about them. We don't know what, but if it's a player living with elderly relatives he'd need to shield them, or a staff member who's got chronic asthma. And they said all other options had been tried:

"A small number of Chesterfield players and staff - most of whom are classed as vulnerable people - have received the Covid-19 vaccine. In line with the NHS directive - that doctors and staff have the discretion to ensure that they can make full use of any unused vaccines, rather than have any go to waste - the people concerned were called at very short notice to receive the vaccine.

"They were only contacted after the surgery had exhausted all other viable options. Those involved were keen that these vaccines were not wasted, which would have been the case had they not received them."

Supermarket workers would have been nice, but again, the time window...Instead, you've got a place that's 4 minutes away, that's being used as a mass test centre and has a small number of vulnerable people immediately available. 

Which is better to do, keep trying to find someone who can use the vaccine who's in the right category right up until the deadline and thus waste it, or use it on someone who might not be first, second, third, fourth etc... choice, but can actually receive it in time?

The staff really don't muck around with that 15 minute window, they do everything within their power to get someone more vulnerable, but if they've got a jab and you've got an arm, they're gonna jab you. Here's how it went for one of the volunteers in Dorset:
An NHS lanyard runs up to one young lady volunteering.  Have you had the jab?

Volunteer, taken aback: Er, no?

Right come with me

Can I just...

'Nope it can't wait'

jaywalk(run) across the road and in. She was back out in under 5 minutes (AZ vaccine), to collect the coat she'd left abandoned on a bush and couldn't go back for. But even before the lanyard found her volunteer arm, they'd have been on the phone trying to deny a volunteer a jab in preference to someone more vulnerable. If your vols are all done then...

12 hour shifts trying to make full value of every single vaccine they've got and not to waste any. Yes some people got it ahead of others more needy and that wouldn't happen in an ideal world, but in an ideal world, we wouldn't have a pandemic - or people hurling abuse at those trying to combat it. There's no justification for that. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

You have 15 minutes from opened to vaccination.

Looking at the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) Pfizer release instructions -

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/storage-summary.pdf

in fact you have up to 6 hours at room temperature.  (right at the bottom of page 2)

Same 6 hours here in our NHS

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjn06Dd9tLuAhUOWsAKHXCeCSAQFjAAegQIBBAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sps.nhs.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F12%2FVH8-Preparation-of-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine-Syringes-for-Administration-Issue-1.2-03.12.20.docx&usg=AOvVaw2GuirlPR4ReQUaMj2MEnWc

under para 4.3.15

I agree it should never be wasted, but normally - there is a reasonable time to get in substitute patients.

[chrisjpainter]

7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Looking at the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) Pfizer release instructions -

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/storage-summary.pdf

in fact you have up to 6 hours at room temperature.  (right at the bottom of page 2)

Same 6 hours here in our NHS

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjn06Dd9tLuAhUOWsAKHXCeCSAQFjAAegQIBBAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sps.nhs.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F12%2FVH8-Preparation-of-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine-Syringes-for-Administration-Issue-1.2-03.12.20.docx&usg=AOvVaw2GuirlPR4ReQUaMj2MEnWc

under para 4.3.15

I agree it should never be wasted, but normally - there is a reasonable time to get in substitute patients.

Six hours isn't quite the whole story though. The guidance is to not prepare any more than the expected number of vaccines to be used in 1 hour time slots(4.1.2.) One diluted vial = 5 vaccines. In order to avoid wastage and having multiple vials open at once, they aim to use all of one before the next one is used. and the standing time diminishes once the vial's open. Prepping a whole new vial is properly laborious, so if you have one left over because someone didn't show up, you use that one on any given arm you can get in, rather than letting it just sit there. 

We're talking the very, very rare situations. As you say most of the time, they can plan - when people phone in and say 'I'm not coming' then it's not an issue. It's when something unexpected crops up - someone doesn't show, or cancels at the last minute and they literally have a needle sitting there. I think over the time that I've been volunteering, it's only happened literally a handful of times. I'm not sure what percentage it'd be, but I do know on one day they hit 700 people in 12 hours. and I think they've done about 15 days of vaccinating so far. So you're talking fractions of a percentage of jabs going to people who'd otherwise have to wait. 

[AVB]

8 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Six hours isn't quite the whole story though. The guidance is to not prepare any more than the expected number of vaccines to be used in 1 hour time slots(4.1.2.) One diluted vial = 5 vaccines. In order to avoid wastage and having multiple vials open at once, they aim to use all of one before the next one is used. and the standing time diminishes once the vial's open. Prepping a whole new vial is properly laborious, so if you have one left over because someone didn't show up, you use that one on any given arm you can get in, rather than letting it just sit there. 

We're talking the very, very rare situations. As you say most of the time, they can plan - when people phone in and say 'I'm not coming' then it's not an issue. It's when something unexpected crops up - someone doesn't show, or cancels at the last minute and they literally have a needle sitting there. I think over the time that I've been volunteering, it's only happened literally a handful of times. I'm not sure what percentage it'd be, but I do know on one day they hit 700 people in 12 hours. and I think they've done about 15 days of vaccinating so far. So you're talking fractions of a percentage of jabs going to people who'd otherwise have to wait. 

Considering that the ‘volunteer’ could have come from anywhere, out of interest, how are their details recorded so that they can be contacted to get the second jab? 

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Six hours isn't quite the whole story though.

I don't disagree, but nor is 15 minutes.  The reality (as explained to me) is that they usually have some 'public service' workers numbers available who can be called on standby, but I think they have more than 10 minutes notice (though I agree not the full 6 hours.  My point is that it is normally a 'manageable' situation, not a desperate 'must get anyone we can in the next 10 minutes'.

[AVB]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

I don't disagree, but nor is 15 minutes.  The reality (as explained to me) is that they usually have some 'public service' workers numbers available who can be called on standby, but I think they have more than 10 minutes notice (though I agree not the full 6 hours.  My point is that it is normally a 'manageable' situation, not a desperate 'must get anyone we can in the next 10 minutes'.

I am sure the police could get there on a blue light run. Just tell them that doughnuts are on offer.   

[chrisjpainter]

Just now, AVB said:

Considering that the ‘volunteer’ could have come from anywhere, out of interest, how are their details recorded so that they can be contacted to get the second jab? 

That I don't know. Once you're on the slab for the jab, they take all the normal details (when the computer works, it didn't with me!) and then I imagine it's all done with your NHS number? I guess it goes on your medical records and a computer flags it up when it's time for your second. You get a magic card that's got the date of your first one and you have to have that stamped for the second. 

It's funny you say about the volunteer, I was surprised at how little paperwork there was. You have to be local - they ask for a postcode and your surgery and I was only asked to give details of my DBS (criminal records check) because I had had one done because we volunteer for a young people's homeless charity. Without that it was a one page form of name, address, car reg...and that's about it. 

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I don't disagree, but nor is 15 minutes.  The reality (as explained to me) is that they usually have some 'public service' workers numbers available who can be called on standby, but I think they have more than 10 minutes notice (though I agree not the full 6 hours.  My point is that it is normally a 'manageable' situation, not a desperate 'must get anyone we can in the next 10 minutes'.

Yes. You're right. Like I said it's in the tiny, tiny number of cases where that breaks down. But all it takes is someone to find out that a footballer has got it in one of those tiny, tiny number of cases and the world goes into meltdown and assumes that's the norm, so the next logical reaction is to publish a health worker's home address online and threaten her kids...

[discobob]

This will be the way that it happens - they know through the day that x number of people haven't turned up - say an hour before closing they know for definite that 20 people haven't turned up and maybe one or two in the last hour - they can get on the phone with plenty of time - even two hours or three hours before. 

[Yellow Bear]

We are close Chesterfield but not in a practice there.     I was due for contact this week for jab next (so I am told) but got a call at 1015 on Tuesday  from the surgery whilst out with the dog, "we have a cancelation, can you be there for 1150 ?"  That was at the main surgery 5 miles away,  you bet I got there.

However of the 10 people in that time slot there were 2 no shows without cancelling phone calls and 2 of us were there on cancellations ( I know the assistant doing the book in and was told).   The staff are doing their utmost to perform but some of the public are not helping.  This was with the O/AZ vaccine which has some float, it must be hell with the other.

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

We are close Chesterfield but not in a practice there.     I was due for contact this week for jab next (so I am told) but got a call at 1015 on Tuesday  from the surgery whilst out with the dog, "we have a cancelation, can you be there for 1150 ?"  That was at the main surgery 5 miles away,  you bet I got there.

However of the 10 people in that time slot there were 2 no shows without cancelling phone calls and 2 of us were there on cancellations ( I know the assistant doing the book in and was told).   The staff are doing their utmost to perform but some of the public are not helping.  This was with the O/AZ vaccine which has some float, it must be hell with the other.

Good on you fot getting your finger out and getting in. It's amazing that there are not many more errors given the volume of jab's they are getting through. Better a few errors in process rather than delaying the overall numbers has to be the way to go.

As for footballers jumping the que it's just not on. Unfortunately they seem to operate by different rules. 

[clangerman]

Just now, oowee said:

 

As for footballers jumping the que it's just not on. Unfortunately they seem to operate by different rules. 

i’m amazed instead of being angry my daughter and her mother in law had jabs people are making excuses those jabs could have gone to THEIR family member in greater need how is it ever acceptable thanks to your employer and they are definitely behind this you can jump the queue let’s hope the staff at the bottom who DO mix with the public get one EVENTUALLY! 

[AVB]

54 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

That I don't know. Once you're on the slab for the jab, they take all the normal details (when the computer works, it didn't with me!) and then I imagine it's all done with your NHS number? I guess it goes on your medical records and a computer flags it up when it's time for your second. You get a magic card that's got the date of your first one and you have to have that stamped for the second. 

It's funny you say about the volunteer, I was surprised at how little paperwork there was. You have to be local - they ask for a postcode and your surgery and I was only asked to give details of my DBS (criminal records check) because I had had one done because we volunteer for a young people's homeless charity. Without that it was a one page form of name, address, car reg...and that's about it. 

 

Thanks. A DBS check isn’t transferable though. It is only valid for a specific ‘employer’ 

[chrisjpainter]

23 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

We are close Chesterfield but not in a practice there.     I was due for contact this week for jab next (so I am told) but got a call at 1015 on Tuesday  from the surgery whilst out with the dog, "we have a cancelation, can you be there for 1150 ?"  That was at the main surgery 5 miles away,  you bet I got there.

However of the 10 people in that time slot there were 2 no shows without cancelling phone calls and 2 of us were there on cancellations ( I know the assistant doing the book in and was told).   The staff are doing their utmost to perform but some of the public are not helping.  This was with the O/AZ vaccine which has some float, it must be hell with the other.

That's what's not on. We can argue about whether it's right or wrong as to how footballers got it (and it seems to have only been three and none of us knows why they were picked other than there was reason behind it).

But to just not bother to show up for a potentially life saving vaccination when you've been earmarked as being vulnerable and thus due for it early? I hope they had a phenomenal  reason as to why they couldn't pick up a phone and dial a number.

Just now, AVB said:

Thanks. A DBS check isn’t transferable though. It is only valid for a specific ‘employer’ 

Yeah, which is why it surprised me there was an option to put it in. It wasn't a necessity to be a volunteer, they certainly weren't going to get people checked at that short notice and as you say it's not transferrable, so even a very recent one like mine isn't any particular value to them.