Will this get through to owners?

[Rob85]

I just seen an article come up on a countryside group I belong to on Facebook regarding dogs off leads around livestock. Did the police go too far posting the pictures of the dead dog? I don't think so. Just hope this link works.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/graphic-images-released-after-husky-5204191

[old'un]

its a shame to lose your dog like that ...but these people never learn, few years back local farmer shot two dogs, a Lab and Alsatian. the owner of the dogs, a young woman, was distraught.

[Walker570]

The straight answer is NO. I was walking back across a farm I shoot on and saw a dog running up a hedge toward me, it turned out to be a jack Russel, no human in sight. It ran up a hedgerow back toward the village but ehn reappeared running passed me down the field towards a wood. I looked acroos the adjacent field and could se people standing by a fence alongside a house about 200yrds away.   I told the farmer and his wife rang these people who simply said, Yes it is ours but it will come home eventually.

The field I was in had ewes with week old lambs in it and they couldn't care less but I bet they would be screaming and shouting if it had been shot.

These people are like their dogs, FERAL.

1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

The straight answer is NO. I was walking back across a farm I shoot on and saw a dog running up a hedge toward me, it turned out to be a jack Russel, no human in sight. It ran up a hedgerow back toward the village but ehn reappeared running passed me down the field towards a wood. I looked acroos the adjacent field and could se people standing by a fence alongside a house about 200yrds away.   I told the farmer and his wife rang these people who simply said, Yes it is ours but it will come home eventually.

The field I was in had ewes with week old lambs in it and they couldn't care less but I bet they would be screaming and shouting if it had been shot.

These people are like their owners, FERAL.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Walker570

[steve_b_wales]

Not at all. 

[sam triple]

No not at all it’s always been a given if a dogs worrying live stock it runs the risk of being shot , the headline however “ dog shot to death “ is a bit crass , shot dead would have been less dramatic 

[Rob85]

13 minutes ago, sam triple said:

No not at all it’s always been a given if a dogs worrying live stock it runs the risk of being shot , the headline however “ dog shot to death “ is a bit crass , shot dead would have been less dramatic 

Yea I agree it's a bit crass. A few of the comments under the post alluded to the headline being a bit dramatic for what it is but I suppose that's the way of the media these days.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, on the news tonight , dogs roaming in fields with new born lambs, 👎, is it any wonder some will get shot, it's bad enough with foxes taking lambs and the Eagles now reintroduced in parts of Uk, I think farmers have enough problems without all this, and not forgetting those out walking in the countryside and not keeping to the footpaths, 

Edited March 19, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper

[Yellow Bear]

18 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

those out walking in the countryside and not keeping to the footpaths, 

Problem our way is they have made paths over plough more than 3m wide "avoiding the muddy bits"

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Problem our way is they have made paths over plough more than 3m wide "avoiding the muddy bits"

Hello, as above, it's going on all over UK , then every year there's a call for dog owners at lambing time yet many take no notice, is it any wonder why farmers get angry !!!!!! and have to shoot a dog, the dog owners would also pay for lost revenue 

[WalkedUp]

On 19/03/2021 at 16:18, Rob85 said:

I just seen an article come up on a countryside group I belong to on Facebook regarding dogs off leads around livestock. Did the police go too far posting the pictures of the dead dog? I don't think so. Just hope this link works.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/graphic-images-released-after-husky-5204191

The police didn’t go far enough, should have named and shamed the owners. Too many idiots own dogs without taking any responsibility for training them. No socialising to livestock, no recall. 

This morning we were out socialising a young lab with bullocks, fenced. Dog has to ignore the cattle. Livestock and non target animals (chickens, sheep, cattle, other dogs, children etc) may as well be grass or trees, a trained dog doesn’t see them.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by WalkedUp

[Jim Neal]

6 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

The police didn’t go far enough, should have named and shamed the owners. Too many idiots own dogs without taking any responsibility for training them. No socialising to livestock, no recall. 

This morning we were out socialising a young lab with bullocks, fenced. Dog has to ignore the cattle. Livestock and non target animals (chickens, sheep, cattle, other dogs, children etc) may as well be grass or trees, a trained dog doesn’t see them.

 

 

The dog springer I recently lost, the sod used to get a bit hot on rabbit scent after he learned the thrill of the chase and pegged a few.... he would have his nose down on a scent and literally pass underneath horses and cows! Just like they were just some sort of inanimate obstacle!

My bitch has always carefully but with confidence circumnavigated large livestock, giving them about a 10ft berth!  She'll walk among sheep as if they're garden ornaments.

And I don't ever remember consciously training them with livestock at all, I think if you always just ignore the beasts yourself, the dog takes your lead and does the same.

[WalkedUp]

1 hour ago, Jim Neal said:

I think if you always just ignore the beasts yourself, the dog takes your lead and does the same.

Exactly this. We go and have a chat next to livestock, with the dogs pootling about. Any interest in the animals is punished with a “ware”. 

[Rob85]

31 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Exactly this. We go and have a chat next to livestock, with the dogs pootling about. Any interest in the animals is punished with a “ware”. 

Exactly what i done with my last gundog. Took her up to a fenced area with lambs and just stood about outside the fence line for a while, any grumble from her got a tug on the lead and a loud "argh!" from me.

I always try to stay out of fields with cows, we got caught once in a field on one of my permissions of particularly aggressive beasts and I just took her by the lead and started to march smartly the hell outa there! They paid her a little too much interest when we got close to the gate so 2 blanks from the starter pistol turned them enough so we could get out over the gate. Not my proudest moment but a lesson learned! 

[Old farrier]

A few more signs like this may help 

[WalkedUp]

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

A few more signs like this may help 

Almost certainly would be against the law to enforce, so confusing to advertise. The legal situation is that dogs must be kept under close control in a field containing livestock. There is also an offence of trespass if a dog strays from the line of the footpath, the same as for people. 

Wording such as “Dogs that are not kept under close control will be shot, it is an offence for you or your dog to leave the footpath in this area” would be more correct and enforceable. 

[Old farrier]

1 minute ago, WalkedUp said:

Almost certainly would be against the law to enforce, so confusing to advertise. The legal situation is that dogs must be kept under close control in a field containing livestock. There is also an offence of trespass if a dog strays from the line of the footpath, the same as for people. 

Wording such as “Dogs that are not kept under close control will be shot, it is an offence for you or your dog to leave the footpath in this area” would be more correct and enforceable. 

I think the farmer had had enough 🥵

agree the sign is legally incorrect but it may make one or two take a different route 

[aberisle]

On 19/03/2021 at 18:51, oldypigeonpopper said:

 and the Eagles now reintroduced in parts of Uk, I think farmers have enough problems without all this, and not forgetting those out walking in the countryside 

I think the dog owners should also worry about the Eagles i had a friend who lives on Skye and he would'nt let his terrier dog out in his garden unless he was there to oversee it as the Eagles would take the dog if it got the chance.

Just to think it would be poetic justice if Packham had his poodle taken by a Whitetailed Eagle... i wonder what type of spin he would try and put on that?

[oldypigeonpopper]

26 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I think the farmer had had enough 🥵

agree the sign is legally incorrect but it may make one or two take a different route 

Hello, I think 100s of sheep farmers in uk have had enough 🤔  when your just trying to make a reasonable living and most farmers are passionate on their livestock if that's a good word they do not need all these dog problems, it's bad enough with all the red tape forms that come with breeding livestock, then there are fewer markets to sell at and profit margins , if any !!!!!!

[WalkedUp]

I agree. My friend in the High Peaks has dogs chasing his lambs most days. People have picnics sat on his garden wall etc. No respect or care for the stewards of the land. 

2 hours ago, Old farrier said:

I think the farmer had had enough 🥵

 

 

[39TDS]

Sheep worrying is defined as any dog not on a lead or walking to heel (termed under close control I believe).

It does not mean actively chasing sheep, wandering about taking no notice of the sheep does not mean it isn't classed as sheep worrying.

[Jim Neal]

8 hours ago, 39TDS said:

Sheep worrying is defined as any dog not on a lead or walking to heel (termed under close control I believe).

Have you got a source for that?  I'm not sure your interpretation is actually written in law.  I've never been able to find a specific definition of the legal term "under close control".  I can only presume it's been left as a deliberately vague and open-ended term because "under close control" it isn't a black & white judgement.

We all know that "close" can mean different things to different people when it comes to working their dogs in the field, the same as "under control" 😄.

[Old farrier]

Well behaved under close control it’s a bit subjective 

but

it’s not hard to put your trained dog on the lead if you have to get through a field of sheep 

how many well trained trialing dogs have run in at a trial? 

[39TDS]

Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

(2)For the purposes of this Act worrying livestock means—

(a)attacking livestock, or

(b)chasing livestock in such a way as may reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering to the livestock or, in the case of females, abortion, or loss of or diminution in their produce.

[F1or

(c)being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep]

That is as much as the law states. I have heard of farmers shooting dogs but never heard of any doing it without very good reason. The way people think of their dogs these days they will be claiming they have a right to chase sheep and it is the farmers fault for putting them in a field in the first place.

[Jim Neal]

On 21/03/2021 at 22:56, 39TDS said:

Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

(2)For the purposes of this Act worrying livestock means—

(a)attacking livestock, or

(b)chasing livestock in such a way as may reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering to the livestock or, in the case of females, abortion, or loss of or diminution in their produce.

[F1or

(c)being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep]

That is as much as the law states. I have heard of farmers shooting dogs but never heard of any doing it without very good reason. The way people think of their dogs these days they will be claiming they have a right to chase sheep and it is the farmers fault for putting them in a field in the first place.

OK thanks for that, I've never actually seen it written in that way - but it doesn't say about walking to heel, which is maybe your interpretation.  My interpretation for a springer is as long as I can pip the dog back from 50yds away that's close control 😅

[Wb123]

I beat a local dog off my neighbours cattle with a lunge whip a few months back expecting the owners to have no insight into the gravity of the situation. Much to my relief a thoroughly decent and extremely embarrassed local chap from the pub appeared and the first thing he said was thank you for bringing the whip and not a gun. 
 

I explained they were fattening bullocks fattening but had it been a different part of the year and the dog had got into the breeding stock I would have shot first. Word got round the village like wildfire and I have not seen an off lead dog more than six feet from its owner since. 

I am aware that shooting dogs on someone else’s livestock is dangerous territory, however the suggestion that I would do it has had a profound effect on local behaviour.