Mortgage / Title Deeds

[steve_b_wales]

After paying off the last loan secured to my home, I now want the deeds to my property, which is 200 year old. I have been informed that I can't have the original one but a photocopy to prove that I own the property. Is this correct?

[ph5172]

The ‘original’ deeds may not exist if the property is that old unless they were passed through solicitor to solicitor. 
if I recall correctly there is no requirement to pass on the original paper deed. 
All deeds are held electronically by the land registry. 
 

it maybe worth asking the original solicitor or mortgage company if they hold the ‘original’ deed or just a copy. 

[grahamch]

Alternatively get a copy of the charge certificate or registration of title from the land registry 

 

[steve_b_wales]

29 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

The ‘original’ deeds may not exist if the property is that old unless they were passed through solicitor to solicitor. 
if I recall correctly there is no requirement to pass on the original paper deed. 
All deeds are held electronically by the land registry. 
 

it maybe worth asking the original solicitor or mortgage company if they hold the ‘original’ deed or just a copy. 

According to my mortgage lender (HSBC) all deeds are held at Land Registry.

Edited March 24, 2021 by steve_b_wales

[Mungler]

No such thing as title deeds anymore following compulsory registration from the early 1980’s. Its now all about the electronic register held at the Land Registry. 

[mel b3]

53 minutes ago, steve_b_wales said:

According to my mortgage lender (HSBC) all deeds are held at Land Registry.

I've has the paper deeds to my house for years (since I paid the mortgage off), but I believe that paper deeds are a thing of the past now , as all deeds are held electronically. 

[Dave at kelton]

I know Scotland is slightly different but I have mine. The important thing though is what is at Land Registry as stated by others. You need to see that the charge in favour of the bank has been removed on settlement of the mortgage.

All that aside congrats on paying it off. Not celebrated as it should be in the UK. It’s a hell of a weight off your mind.......and your wallet.

[steve_b_wales]

37 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

I know Scotland is slightly different but I have mine. The important thing though is what is at Land Registry as stated by others. You need to see that the charge in favour of the bank has been removed on settlement of the mortgage.

All that aside congrats on paying it off. Not celebrated as it should be in the UK. It’s a hell of a weight off your mind.......and your wallet.

There's no charge anymore on my house. I had letters etc from HSBC stating that 'their charge has been discharged' The mortgage (second one) wasn't that big, but it's still nice to clear it. 

[Vince Green]

I only saw the deeds of our old house on the day I purchased the house but they had some interesting covenants. I was allowed to keep a horse for example, and a cow and a goat. Chickens but not a cockerel. I was allowed to gather fallen firewood on the common and graze my animals. Plus it had details of the original owners etc

It was a lovely old legal document, well worth framing. We never got it back when we paid off the mortgage they said they had no record of it.

In America mortgage parties are common but that was, in part, because mortgage companies were hated. They could behave like the mafia and foreclose on you at any time, even if you weren't in arrears. Just because they wanted to or because some developer had offered them more money for the site. So paying off the mortgage was a red letter day

during the war, in America when somebody got killed they said he had "bought it". Its still used today 

That was because the compensation paid to the family of a dead soldier was used to clear the mortgage on the farm. Often leaving the family more secure than if he had lived  Literally "He bought the farm"

Edited March 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[wishy735]

Purchased my current home in 2007, built 1964. I had a mortgage of £38k. I received all original title deeds, solicitor said mortgage company, could not be ***** to hold/store and pay for them. 

 

[Mungler]

So, read this:

 

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2019/05/30/registering-land-for-more-than-150-years/

[Ricko]

Funnily enough I've not paid my mortgage off yet but I've got all the deeds/documents etc. Lovely old document from the 1880s signed by local minor aristocrats/landowners.

[Vince Green]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So, read this:

 

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2019/05/30/registering-land-for-more-than-150-years/

In the 1970s and 80s  a (then) aquaintance of mine became a multi millionaire by claiming unregistered plots of land. Don't know where he is now or what he is doing but I wish to heck I had followed his example

 

[gdadphil]

Did you know that someone could impersonate you and sell or re-mortgage your property without you knowing??

This sounds like an opening line to a cheesy advert ... I was informed this can happen in a letter from my Solicitor, received, just today, after having moved house in January 2021.

Apparently in 2010 there were 71 claims paid by the Land Registry for claims over impersonated transactions; not many out of the many transactions that take place but it happens.

I'm told you can check if your details are correct on the Proprietorship Register and you can add your email or mobile number so the Land Registry can check with you if there is a query.

You can also add a Restriction to help prevent forgery. This would mean a solicitor verifying the person selling or mortgaging the property is you. LR charge £40 for setting this up, my solicitor won't charge for setting up with LR.

TBH for £40 and an email I would be daft not to action both the Additional contact details and a Restriction with the LR via my solicitor.

If my parents were still alive I would certainly have advised them to to it. (the worry if it went pear-shaped would be immense) 

just thought I'd share

cheers

Gdadphil

 

[wishy735]

5 minutes ago, gdadphil said:

Did you know that someone could impersonate you and sell or re-mortgage your property without you knowing??

This sounds like an opening line to a cheesy advert ... I was informed this can happen in a letter from my Solicitor, received, just today, after having moved house in January 2021.

Apparently in 2010 there were 71 claims paid by the Land Registry for claims over impersonated transactions; not many out of the many transactions that take place but it happens.

I'm told you can check if your details are correct on the Proprietorship Register and you can add your email or mobile number so the Land Registry can check with you if there is a query.

You can also add a Restriction to help prevent forgery. This would mean a solicitor verifying the person selling or mortgaging the property is you. LR charge £40 for setting this up, my solicitor won't charge for setting up with LR.

TBH for £40 and an email I would be daft not to action both the Additional contact details and a Restriction with the LR via my solicitor.

If my parents were still alive I would certainly have advised them to to it. (the worry if it went pear-shaped would be immense) 

just thought I'd share

cheers

Gdadphil

 

I would change your solicitor.

[gdadphil]

Hi wishy735

 

WHY? they are looking after my best interests at no cost to themselves?

Any Solicitors on the forum care to comment?

cheers 

[wishy735]

14 minutes ago, gdadphil said:

Hi wishy735

 

WHY? they are looking after my best interests at no cost to themselves?

Any Solicitors on the forum care to comment?

cheers 

At no cost! Well please let us know how you get on.

[Vince Green]

The situation in Britain, because we have a land registry, is about a thousand times better and safer than the situation in most other countries where there is no clear definitive proof of ownership. 

 

[Neverforget]

You are allowed the original ones if they still around that is, I’ve just bought a 200 year old house and have the original deeds, these are securely locked away not in the property I might add

[Mungler]

On 24/03/2021 at 21:28, gdadphil said:

Hi wishy735

 

WHY? they are looking after my best interests at no cost to themselves?

Any Solicitors on the forum care to comment?

cheers 

 
Your solicitor is 100% correct and it’s a real issue.

The starting point is:

1. Never own a tenanted / rented property (or any property) where you do not have control of all of the post to that address or where your registered proprietor details are registered to that same address.

2. ideally don’t pay off your mortgage - leave a couple of K mortgage there or even leave the mortgage company’s registered charge in situ over the property even when you have repaid all your borrowing - this means you will have the mortgage company’s securities team Keeping an eye over the property too.

3. Whenever you move, make sure your details are updated at the land registry for every property you have an interest in.

We’ve seen it.

Bloke in his twenties buys a starter property (say flat or house). He address at the land registry is recorded as being at that address, and that makes sense because he lives there and gets the post there.

He then meets a girl, they get married and decide to buy a new home together. They leave the starter property, rent it out and move into their new home together.

The bloke forgets to update the registered title details for his starter home. The tenant then has control of that property and the post to that property. The tenant then impersonates the owner and sets about selling or remortgaging the property - remember the final steps entail the land registry being obliged to only send out formal notices to the owner but at the address they have on file and if they are sent to and intercepted by the tenant at the property, then it’s the owner’s tough titty.

 

.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Mungler

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

 
Your solicitor is 100% correct and it’s a real issue.

The starting point is:

1. Never own a tenanted / rented property (or any property) where you do not have control of all of the post to that address or where your registered proprietor details are registered to that same address.

2. ideally don’t pay off your mortgage - leave a couple of K mortgage there or even leave the mortgage company’s registered charge in situ over the property even when you have repaid all your borrowing - this means you will have the mortgage company’s securities team Keeping an eye over the property too.

3. Whenever you move, make sure your details are updated at the land registry for every property you have an interest in.

We’ve seen it.

Bloke in his twenties buys a starter property (say flat or house). He address at the land registry is recorded as being at that address, and that makes sense because he lives there and gets the post there.

He then meets a girl, they get married and decide to buy a new home together. They leave the starter property, rent it out and move into their new home together.

The bloke forgets to update the registered title details for his starter home. The tenant then has control of that property and the post to that property. The tenant then impersonates the owner and sets about selling or remortgaging the property - remember the final steps entail the land registry being obliged to only send out formal notices to the owner but at the address they have on file and if they are sent to and intercepted by the tenant at the property, then it’s the owner’s tough titty.

 

.

 

Thats a very good point

but its not only about people trying to sell or mortgage the property. Most tenanted properties still gets post from other previous tenants and that is a rich source of material for all sorts of identity fraud to be created.

 

[ph5172]

I still had title to my old property as the buyer had instructed a factory style conveyance company and they had not updated the title. This was months and months later. 
 

I can’t recall how it came about us finding out I think a letter arrived and I had re direction. my solicitor dealt with it.  

[powler]

On 24/03/2021 at 20:51, Ricko said:

Funnily enough I've not paid my mortgage off yet but I've got all the deeds/documents etc. Lovely old document from the 1880s signed by local minor aristocrats/landowners.

Same here, the building society sent the originals to me some ten years ago, guess its as some say its all electronic now. Property was built 1895.

[mel b3]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

 
Your solicitor is 100% correct and it’s a real issue.

The starting point is:

1. Never own a tenanted / rented property (or any property) where you do not have control of all of the post to that address or where your registered proprietor details are registered to that same address.

2. ideally don’t pay off your mortgage - leave a couple of K mortgage there or even leave the mortgage company’s registered charge in situ over the property even when you have repaid all your borrowing - this means you will have the mortgage company’s securities team Keeping an eye over the property too.

3. Whenever you move, make sure your details are updated at the land registry for every property you have an interest in.

We’ve seen it.

Bloke in his twenties buys a starter property (say flat or house). He address at the land registry is recorded as being at that address, and that makes sense because he lives there and gets the post there.

He then meets a girl, they get married and decide to buy a new home together. They leave the starter property, rent it out and move into their new home together.

The bloke forgets to update the registered title details for his starter home. The tenant then has control of that property and the post to that property. The tenant then impersonates the owner and sets about selling or remortgaging the property - remember the final steps entail the land registry being obliged to only send out formal notices to the owner but at the address they have on file and if they are sent to and intercepted by the tenant at the property, then it’s the owner’s tough titty.

 

.

 

Jesus . That would be your worst nightmare.  You wouldn't believe that someone would have the brass neck to steal your house  .  And you wouldn't even know anything about it.

[Bigbob]

When we paid off our mortgage the bank sent them to us after a couple of months we bought a fire proof safe and stuck them up in the loft with other documents