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Mother to son worth the risk if willing to do the necessary or not at all obviously pros if it goes right but cons if it doesn't would anyone be brave enough if both parents ticked all the boxes for you and you wanted to keep the line as strong as poss or not worth it and has anyone known of any successful litters bred this way especially gundogs, iv only myself known of one litter of which was actually successful but they was running dogs..

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KC won’t register a litter bred that closely. 
 

Anyone who’s THAT into breeding would most likely be running in comps and therefore want their dogs KC Reg so wouldn’t do it. 

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Posted (edited)

Alright loyd it's nice to have them registered but it's what they do on the field that matters the most isn't it so from that point of view it wouldn't bother me to much👍

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I think you may have answered your own question really. 

Thanks pal but could you elaborate cheers 

Edited by Giveemsomestick
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54 minutes ago, Scully said:

You say you only know of one litter where it was successful. 
 

👍

54 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Had a couple of dogs which came from breeders who bred far too closely and both dogs suffered from epilepsy.    Same goes from greedy breeders who breed their dogs far to old, same result.

It sure has its risks 👍

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Certain cultures still have high level of inbreeding in humans and then wonder why they have a very high percentage of congenital abnormalities compared to normal behaviour. Inbreeding is just wrong and likely to result in poorly offspring. 

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You only have to look at the puppy farmers and council estate weapon dogs to see the effects of inbreeding. But I dispute buying a KC registered pup is a guarantee of anything.

Our last dog Oliver (Ollie) was a KC registered Shih Tzu that my step daughter bought from a (so called) respectable registered breeder. and she paid a lot for him, poor little fella he had so many problems right from the start it was tragic. The vets bills my stepdaughter paid out for him in his short life were eye watering.

I'm talking tens of thousands of pounds, but no way would my step daughter let him go, he was a great little fella but he went deaf and blind. He walked like he had been on the booze, he couldn't coordinate his legs. The insurance company dumped him when he was about six, after a very expensive operation on his hips that wasn't really that successful. After that they wouldn't renew his policy or wanted so much it amounted to the same thing 

The pain killers for the arthritis in his hips was £70 a week alone.  When he finally died (of a stroke) I think the vet cried more than we did.

We loved him, I loved him, he was my little mate but I'm telling you this to show that a "bad" dog is a victim as much as the owners, but the legacy and the cost, emotionally and financially is huge. I don't believe that breeder was straight with us

Its the reason I said we would never have a dog again but my partner has other ideas , she has found a long haired daxhaund puppy advertised for £5,000, my response? Well the second word is off   

Edited by Vince Green
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2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You only have to look at the puppy farmers and council estate weapon dogs to see the effects of inbreeding. But I dispute buying a KC registered pup is a guarantee of anything.

Our last dog Oliver (Ollie) was a KC registered Shih Tzu that my step daughter bought from a (so called) respectable registered breeder. and she paid a lot for him, poor little fella he had so many problems right from the start it was tragic. The vets bills my stepdaughter paid out for him in his short life were eye watering.

I'm talking tens of thousands of pounds, but no way would my step daughter let him go, he was a great little fella but he went deaf and blind. He walked like he had been on the booze, he couldn't coordinate his legs. The insurance company dumped him when he was about six, after a very expensive operation on his hips that wasn't really that successful. After that they wouldn't renew his policy or wanted so much it amounted to the same thing 

The pain killers for the arthritis in his hips was £70 a week alone.  When he finally died (of a stroke) I think the vet cried more than we did.

We loved him, I loved him, he was my little mate but I'm telling you this to show that a "bad" dog is a victim as much as the owners, but the legacy and the cost, emotionally and financially is huge. I don't believe that breeder was straight with us

Very sad mate n reckon your not far off the mark there..

It makes you wonder with all the inbreeding that goes on in the wild with wolves and African wild dogs etc etc yes nature will step in sometimes and obviously more potential problems with areas of smaller packs but in the most part they don't seem to have as many problems?

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9 minutes ago, Giveemsomestick said:

Very sad mate n reckon your not far off the mark there..

It makes you wonder with all the inbreeding that goes on in the wild with wolves and African wild dogs etc etc yes nature will step in sometimes and obviously more potential problems with areas of smaller packs but in the most part they don't seem to have as many problems?

There is a lot of inbreeding goes on in the human population too. Here in Cornwall the local population is known as "the inbreds" with some justification but lets not go there because thats not my problem and I dont want to engage with the issues

 

2 i

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35 minutes ago, Giveemsomestick said:

Very sad mate n reckon your not far off the mark there..

It makes you wonder with all the inbreeding that goes on in the wild with wolves and African wild dogs etc etc yes nature will step in sometimes and obviously more potential problems with areas of smaller packs but in the most part they don't seem to have as many problems?


In the wild it is also ruthless. 
 

Any pup born with an abnormality and doesn’t feed right etc the mother just ignores it and it dies in the nest. 

Any animals that survives out of the nest but has other issues dies young and doesn’t pass on its genes. 
 

Rumour is back in the day some of the spaniel lines, if they weren’t hitting cover hard at a certain age they’d shoot the no good ones. 
 

Ruthless culling ending up with certain dogs known for smashing hard cover. 
 

These days the dogs that are no good are getting passed into pet homes, or a lot as pet gundogs. 
 

A big problem Then (well now) is everyone is now advertising their dog at stud. “Has a great temperament” on almost every ad and “loads of FTCH in lines” (same as every other advert. 
 

I put my dog up for stud, he’s done well now last season, proven himself in the field, no faults as per the J Reg’s. I think it’s worth seeing what he can produce. I speak to others who’ve put their dog up for stud they don’t even know what the J Reg’s are and what’s considered a fault and what’s now.

 

 

See loads of dogs down the shoot the owners are proud to tell you they’ve sired so many litters, whilst the dog makes loads of noise, has a hard mouth and is untrained! 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

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9 hours ago, oscarsdad said:

Certain cultures still have high level of inbreeding in humans and then wonder why they have a very high percentage of congenital abnormalities compared to normal behaviour. Inbreeding is just wrong and likely to result in poorly offspring. 

Do not be so offensive about our Norfolkian brethren. 

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23 hours ago, Giveemsomestick said:

Mother to son worth the risk if willing to do the necessary or not at all obviously pros if it goes right but cons if it doesn't would anyone be brave enough if both parents ticked all the boxes for you and you wanted to keep the line as strong as poss or not worth it and has anyone known of any successful litters bred this way especially gundogs, iv only myself known of one litter of which was actually successful but they was running dogs..

Why would you want to? There are so many well bred working dogs out there..

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1 hour ago, WelshAndy said:

Why would you want to? There are so many well bred working dogs out there..

It’s not about if I want to or don’t want to it’s just a point of interest/discussion and if nobody thought n tried it initially then we wouldn’t be we’re we are now with our dogs, yes it’s not needed now but for someone who wants keep there own line and keep it tight before an outcross then some people still choose this method albeit do the necessary which involves such methods 

inbreeding to this level was common in years past when a breeder wanted to fix his or her own 'type' in a breed so it would be recognisable as being from a particular kennel. The successful matings would continue the type and the non successful would be culled. You can double up on the good stuff but also double up on the bad stuff. If you are interested in the subject, lots of articles at the Institue of Canine Biology site (free). Here is one for starters. https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.or ... hOr1HUEiH0

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There’s definitely been some instances of grandfather to granddaughter in times gone by (and probably stuff that’s been passed off but registered to another, I’m sure we’ve all heard the rumours but that’s a bit political for me 😂)

I know for a fact OP isn’t considering this and is just posting out of interest - let’s face it, it’s bound to have been done!

Sorry Andy, didnt mean to quote this but can’t figure out how to get rid of the quote! Hope you’re well 😊x

1 hour ago, WelshAndy said:

Why would you want to? There are so many well bred working dogs out there..

Edited by bigbird
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Hi Aly, no worries 😂

 

I know grandfather/grandmother to granddaughter/grandson - and half brother to half sister is still accepted by the KC. 

Just doesn’t sit right with me. 
 

take care 👍🏻

8 minutes ago, Giveemsomestick said:

It’s not about if I want to or don’t want to it’s just a point of interest/discussion and if nobody thought n tried it initially then we wouldn’t be we’re we are now with our dogs, yes it’s not needed now but for someone who wants keep there own line and keep it tight before an outcross then some people still choose this method albeit do the necessary which involves such methods 

inbreeding to this level was common in years past when a breeder wanted to fix his or her own 'type' in a breed so it would be recognisable as being from a particular kennel. The successful matings would continue the type and the non successful would be culled. You can double up on the good stuff but also double up on the bad stuff. If you are interested in the subject, lots of articles at the Institue of Canine Biology site (free). Here is one for starters. https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.or ... hOr1HUEiH0

Yes I know it went on, and we probably wouldn’t be where we are now without it happening - but I feel now we’re at a stage where there are so many good dogs out there it isn’t needed. 

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