Corona Virus was in Italy in September 2019

[fern01]

It has been proved and stated in a research paper that the Corona Virus was already present in many parts of Italy as early as September 2019

Here is the link;

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33176598/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33176... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1... Presence of SARS-CoV-2 receptor-binding domain (RBD)-specific antibodies Blood samples of 959 asymptomatic individuals enrolled in a prospective lung cancer screening trial Italy's first two cases of COVID-19 disease January 30, 2020, two tourists from China in Rome First laboratory-confirmed Italian COVID-19 case, Lombardy on February 20, 2020, September 2019 to March 2020 SARS-CoV-2 RBD-specific antibodies were detected in 111 of 959 (11.6%) individuals IgM and some IgG September 2019, 23/111 October, 27/111 November, 26/111 December, 11/111 January, 3/111 February, 21/111 Unexpected very early circulation of SARS-CoV-2 among asymptomatic individuals in Italy At least one SARS-CoV-2–positive patient was detected in 13 regions IgM antibodies were detected in 97 (10.1%) patients IgG antibodies were found in 16 (1.7%) All the patients were asymptomatic at the time of blood sample collection. First IgM detected 3rd September Infection more widespread than believed Therefore an overestimation of the mortality rate Since November to December 2019 Many general practitioners began reporting severe respiratory symptoms in elderly and frail people Atypical bilateral bronchitis (? organising pneumonia) Attributed to aggressive forms of seasonal influenza. National Library of Medicine https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371... Paris, December 2019 Patient hospitalized for hemoptysis Stored nasopharyngeal swab confirmed the diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection. Harvard Library, Since autumn 2019 https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/426... Increase of hospital traffic in the Wuhan region Satellite imagery COVID-19 symptoms–related queries in search engines Antibody Persistence through 6 Months after the Second Dose of mRNA-1273 Vaccine for Covid-19 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056... Moderna mRNA-1273 severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Efficacy 94% in phase 3 trials Durability of protection, 180 days after 2nd dose Antibody activity remained high in all age groups at day 209 Results are consistent with convalescent patients with Covid-19 through 8 months after symptom onset Support the use of this vaccine in addressing the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

SHOW MORE

 

 

 

 

[henry d]

Had a look at further pub med publications after reading the original link and surprisingly THIS ARTICLE says no.

@fern01did you get this off YouTube?

[Scully]

Does it matter now?
A mate was skiing in Italy during late 2019. He said his group were very lucky to get back to the UK when they did.
He had most of the known ( at the time ) symptoms on his return. 

[henry d]

52 minutes ago, Scully said:

Does it matter now?

It depends on what you believe.

If it got going in Wuhan late summer and early autumn then in Italy autumn 2019 how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier? I've heard people say that they had "symptoms" back in September/October 2019, how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier?

 

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, henry d said:

It depends on what you believe.

If it got going in Wuhan late summer and early autumn then in Italy autumn 2019 how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier? I've heard people say that they had "symptoms" back in September/October 2019, how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier?

 

Who knows? And like I said, what does it matter now even if it were? What would it change? 

[henry d]

10 hours ago, Scully said:

Who knows? And like I said, what does it matter now even if it were? What would it change? 

Add in your favourite conspiracy theory based around C19. China testing the virus out, nothing to do with wet markets, origin not Chinese... take your pick.

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, henry d said:

Add in your favourite conspiracy theory based around C19. China testing the virus out, nothing to do with wet markets, origin not Chinese... take your pick.

I’m not really sure I have a conspiracy theory Henry, to be honest, I’m just sick and tired of it all now. 
I was in our village shop yesterday, which has a ‘one way’ route due to Covid. I’d picked up something and moved on, only to realise I’d forgotten something so turned back maybe two or three steps to get it, and was met by a woman who recoiled into the cold storage cabinet like I’d physically assaulted her! I just stood there exasperated and apologised. She said’ What are you doing?’ 
I told her that I was shopping, and that she needed to get a grip. I pointed out we were both wearing masks, observing social distancing and we were both obviously of an age to have had our first jabs. Further, if she was so paranoid she should perhaps consider staying at home. I wasn’t prepared to walk all the way round the shop again, to queue behind people in front of me until I got back round to that item I’d forgotten. It’s ridiculous. 
I’m at the stage now where I’ll take things off shelves, read the label and then put them back, just to **** off people. I’ve had enough. 

[dodgy dave]

there is alot of shoppers doing that scully and yes it does

[Rewulf]

11 hours ago, henry d said:

It depends on what you believe.

If it got going in Wuhan late summer and early autumn then in Italy autumn 2019 how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier? I've heard people say that they had "symptoms" back in September/October 2019, how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier?

 

Which is essentially the million dollar question. 

59 minutes ago, henry d said:

Add in your favourite conspiracy theory based around C19. China testing the virus out, nothing to do with wet markets, origin not Chinese... take your pick.

Why has it got to be a conspiracy theory? 

Because it doesn't fit the accepted narrative? 

The Italian cancer screening samples are made up? https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27W1J2

The Spanish sewage samples are fake. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ

Maybe Reuters are in on the conspiracy, and spreading fake news? 

Whatever you want to believe, if you think it came from a Chinese wet market, in one of the most densely populated cities in the world, which then went on to kill millions and cripple World economies, EXCEPT in China, well that's up to you. 

It doesn't work for me, but like Scully said, what does it matter, its done, and there's nothing we can do about it. 

 

 

[Rob85]

11 hours ago, henry d said:

It depends on what you believe.

If it got going in Wuhan late summer and early autumn then in Italy autumn 2019 how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier? I've heard people say that they had "symptoms" back in September/October 2019, how wasn't it ripping through the world earlier?

 

The reason I think it took off and went ripping through the world was the big rush for people to get out of China/Asia and get home again once it was known something bad was happening...delayed and made worse of course by the communist party lies and denials and attempt to save face. A lot of movement all heading to home countries bringing the virus with them, governments laying on extra flights helped no doubt to bring the virus with them.

 I had quite bad symptoms in December 2019 before any lockdowns, and without knowing what was up I still had to go and pick up Christmas shopping as my wife does not drive. I remember shuffling into the shopping centre like I was 100 years old and not healthy mid 30s. Wasn't long before a few of my workmates were dropping off on the sick, I isolated myself from my elderly relatives as I was sure what I had would have probably killed them.

In northern ireland our first properly recorded cases were from a family who had been on holiday in Northern Italy, think there was 7 cases and because they had been to school they had infected classmates/parents and you can see how the snowball effect took hold.

Just my observations and experiences of course, I try not to get sucked into the conspiracy crowds.

[fern01]

It doesn't matter anyway because Prince Harry and Megan say that everyone in the whole world is going to be vaccinated

Unfortunately they don't go into the details of who will manufacture them, pay for them, distribute them and administer them 

[Scully]

49 minutes ago, dodgy dave said:

there is alot of shoppers doing that scully and yes it does

Good. 

[henry d]

41 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

The reason I think it took off and went ripping through the world was the big rush for people to get out of China/Asia and get home again once it was known something bad was happening...delayed and made worse of course by the communist party lies and denials and attempt to save face. A lot of movement all heading to home countries bringing the virus with them, governments laying on extra flights helped no doubt to bring the virus with them.

 I had quite bad symptoms in December 2019 before any lockdowns, and without knowing what was up I still had to go and pick up Christmas shopping as my wife does not drive. I remember shuffling into the shopping centre like I was 100 years old and not healthy mid 30s. Wasn't long before a few of my workmates were dropping off on the sick, I isolated myself from my elderly relatives as I was sure what I had would have probably killed them.

In northern ireland our first properly recorded cases were from a family who had been on holiday in Northern Italy, think there was 7 cases and because they had been to school they had infected classmates/parents and you can see how the snowball effect took hold.

Just my observations and experiences of course, I try not to get sucked into the conspiracy crowds.

It's always better to stay away from the conspiracy theories, but it is not easy. Take for example your statements above; your symptoms could have been a bad cold, seasonal influenza or similar, but to a CT it's another key point but missing out that you are relatively young, along with your cohort of workers and the fact that most people in that age group are asymptomatic. To a CT you and your workmates could have infected the "first official case" and he could have infected the Italians. All rubbish of course as Italy was well under way with Covid by then and if you had it then you and your colleagues would have started a bigger wave of infection in Ireland than Italy and on par with China.

Pretty academic anyway, it's here, let's get it sorted and get back to some sort of normality.

[oscarsdad]

57 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

The reason I think it took off and went ripping through the world was the big rush for people to get out of China/Asia and get home again once it was known something bad was happening...delayed and made worse of course by the communist party lies and denials and attempt to save face. A lot of movement all heading to home countries bringing the virus with them, governments laying on extra flights helped no doubt to bring the virus with them.

 I had quite bad symptoms in December 2019 before any lockdowns, and without knowing what was up I still had to go and pick up Christmas shopping as my wife does not drive. I remember shuffling into the shopping centre like I was 100 years old and not healthy mid 30s. Wasn't long before a few of my workmates were dropping off on the sick, I isolated myself from my elderly relatives as I was sure what I had would have probably killed them.

In northern ireland our first properly recorded cases were from a family who had been on holiday in Northern Italy, think there was 7 cases and because they had been to school they had infected classmates/parents and you can see how the snowball effect took hold.

Just my observations and experiences of course, I try not to get sucked into the conspiracy crowds.

The reason it took off and went ripping around the world is because the commie evil Chinese government lied and covered up the existence of the disease, disappearing people who spoke out and denying human - human transmission for several weeks before having to come clean. 
 

The global pandemic is the fault of the the Chinese government. That’s not a conspiracy theory- they are trying to point the finger elsewhere, they know they are guilty but in their quest for global domination human life doesn’t matter. 

[henry d]

I rest my case ⚖️👨‍⚖️💼

[clangerman]

it always matters when somebody is responsible for the death of millions or we are no better than animals 

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, henry d said:

Add in your favourite conspiracy theory based around C19. China testing the virus out, nothing to do with wet markets, origin not Chinese... take your pick.

Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't henry, because last time I checked there is no official answer of where it originated, unless you listen to the Chinese of course and they always tell the truth. 

43 minutes ago, henry d said:

I rest my case ⚖️👨‍⚖️💼

You never had one. 

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

I’m not really sure I have a conspiracy theory Henry, to be honest, I’m just sick and tired of it all now. 
I was in our village shop yesterday, which has a ‘one way’ route due to Covid. I’d picked up something and moved on, only to realise I’d forgotten something so turned back maybe two or three steps to get it, and was met by a woman who recoiled into the cold storage cabinet like I’d physically assaulted her! I just stood there exasperated and apologised. She said’ What are you doing?’ 
I told her that I was shopping, and that she needed to get a grip. I pointed out we were both wearing masks, observing social distancing and we were both obviously of an age to have had our first jabs. Further, if she was so paranoid she should perhaps consider staying at home. I wasn’t prepared to walk all the way round the shop again, to queue behind people in front of me until I got back round to that item I’d forgotten. It’s ridiculous. 
I’m at the stage now where I’ll take things off shelves, read the label and then put them back, just to **** off people. I’ve had enough. 

And you wonder why people recoil back from you

for all you know it could have been the first time out for her 

you have had a year to learn 

appreciate your fed up with it but do you think it’s helping the vulnerable by treating them in this way 

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

And you wonder why people recoil back from you

for all you know it could have been the first time out for her 

you have had a year to learn 

appreciate your fed up with it but do you think it’s helping the vulnerable by treating them in this way 

Or.. she could just be a fruit loop that thinks everyone who doesnt follow the rules TO THE LETTER,  is going to spread covid particles round like a veritable crop duster!
DESPITE masks, social distancing, and most of the adult populace being vaccinated ?

And if you think people like that dont exist, I can assure you they do.

38 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't henry, because last time I checked there is no official answer of where it originated, unless you listen to the Chinese of course and they always tell the truth. 

Its actually better than that, they put the WHO in charge of finding out where it came from, who waited a year before starting the investigation, and of course thats got nothing to do with the fact they are BFFs with China 🤭

Does anyone really still believe that the true origins of the disease came from a market with exotic animals ?
With an outcome that just happens to closely follow the plot of a 2011 film?

[Pangolin]

There are plenty of recoilers about, most of them have been beaten into submission by the media narrative.

 

[Walker570]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

I’m not really sure I have a conspiracy theory Henry, to be honest, I’m just sick and tired of it all now. 
I was in our village shop yesterday, which has a ‘one way’ route due to Covid. I’d picked up something and moved on, only to realise I’d forgotten something so turned back maybe two or three steps to get it, and was met by a woman who recoiled into the cold storage cabinet like I’d physically assaulted her! I just stood there exasperated and apologised. She said’ What are you doing?’ 
I told her that I was shopping, and that she needed to get a grip. I pointed out we were both wearing masks, observing social distancing and we were both obviously of an age to have had our first jabs. Further, if she was so paranoid she should perhaps consider staying at home. I wasn’t prepared to walk all the way round the shop again, to queue behind people in front of me until I got back round to that item I’d forgotten. It’s ridiculous. 
I’m at the stage now where I’ll take things off shelves, read the label and then put them back, just to **** off people. I’ve had enough. 

Could not have put it better.  Get a grip indeed.  I see them every day, eyes staring everywhere and can't even say good morning through the mask and perspex shiled.

My wife and I are over 80 and have decided we are carrying on as normal. Ignore the scaredy cat idiots frightened of their own shadows. We do not wear masks and make no apology .... there is little doubt that a small number of people have made their fortunes out of this and are still trying to scare everyone rigid with reports of this variant and that variant.  

Get out and enjoy life, start to smile again and shake hands.

[Scully]

58 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

And you wonder why people recoil back from you

for all you know it could have been the first time out for her 

you have had a year to learn 

appreciate your fed up with it but do you think it’s helping the vulnerable by treating them in this way 

You’ve made an assumption then based the rest of your post on it.
If anyone is vulnerable to the point they live in fear of mixing and everyone being a plague carrier, then they should stay at home and let the rest of us get on with our lives. 
During that year you say I’ve had to learn, I’ve been in and out of more homes than I can recall....old folk ( one undergoing chemo’ ) young folk with kids with streaming noses, and everything in between. 
At a time of non stop media negativity and scaremongering on an unprecedented scale, we need common sense more than ever. 

[Pangolin]

23 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Could not have put it better.  Get a grip indeed.  I see them every day, eyes staring everywhere and can't even say good morning through the mask and perspex shiled.

My wife and I are over 80 and have decided we are carrying on as normal. Ignore the scaredy cat idiots frightened of their own shadows. We do not wear masks and make no apology .... there is little doubt that a small number of people have made their fortunes out of this and are still trying to scare everyone rigid with reports of this variant and that variant.  

Get out and enjoy life, start to smile again and shake hands.

+1 🙂

 

[Old farrier]

24 minutes ago, Scully said:

You’ve made an assumption then based the rest of your post on it.
If anyone is vulnerable to the point they live in fear of mixing and everyone being a plague carrier, then they should stay at home and let the rest of us get on with our lives. 
During that year you say I’ve had to learn, I’ve been in and out of more homes than I can recall....old folk ( one undergoing chemo’ ) young folk with kids with streaming noses, and everything in between. 
At a time of non stop media negativity and scaremongering on an unprecedented scale, we need common sense more than ever. 

It’s good that there are two sides to every perspective 

given that you have been in and out of more people’s houses than you can recall 

it was the right thing for the lady to do 

we will all view the pandemic in our own way based upon our own health conditions age and probably finances 

having a vacation doesn’t stop you catching or carrying the virus 

[12gauge82]

7 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s good that there are two sides to every perspective 

given that you have been in and out of more people’s houses than you can recall 

it was the right thing for the lady to do 

we will all view the pandemic in our own way based upon our own health conditions age and probably finances 

having a vacation doesn’t stop you catching or carrying the virus 

That's the problem though, this pandemic has brought out Alot of people who think they can dictate what others do, even when it isn't set out in law, once the vulnerable have been vaccinated, if the country can't get back to normal, what's the point in living. Most in the UK have made huge sacrifice and used common sense to stop the spread, there's nothing further that can now be done, we need to get back to normal and unfortunately some people will die.